Our Kick-ins

[drusswaylander]

Are we and have we really been that bad? A mate of mine who is a mad Blue and gets to every game (home and away) has a bee in his bonnet about our kick-ins.

He reckons that we have had terrible setups for a number of years and that this year was no exception. He points out, as one example, that we still go to the pockets with a short kick too much, which he believes went out with the dinosaurs

I think that he is being a little harsh and even may lack a little understanding about what he is watching


In 06 and 07 we generated goals from 9.8% and 10.7% respectively of our kick-ins, ranked first both seasons. Which given the fact that we finished bottom and second last, to me was a pretty good result. We were poor at rebounding out of defence and our skill level was deplorable at times during that period, so our set-ups must have a least been reasonable to overcome those negatives.

I have tried to point out that other teams still use the short kick to the pocket ploy and that it is just a get out of gaol free card if the main options have been covered rather than the main tactic, but to no avail

Personally I think that our set-ups have been fine, but our execution and decision making, as in a number of other areas has been poor. I think poor kick-ins stand out, because you can see the immediate result generally a goal against (in the first wobbles game Gibbsy for example), thus the poor setup perception.


Just wondered what other people thought

 

[drusswaylander]

Main reason for recruitment of Johnson.
He will be kicking in if good enough to play for reasons other than that.
Gibbs must have improved as well.
Stevo is not the worst kicker in this department either.

Set-ups: What I have observed is a lack of confidence going forward. This has kept us fiddling with the ball in the back-line after a kick in.
Not sure what strategy will be from here on in, but must be better than what we have had regardless of the figure you have given above.

I can't believe us to have been cleaner than The Cats and the Dogs here

I wouldn't have thought so either as they are much better skilled sides than we are or have been hopefully, but is that set-up or better skill level. Are the set-ups really that different between the teams bar personnel and capabilities?

I agree we have fiddled around at times, but I think that also applies to our rebounding from defence etc, etc. My point is that I think there is a difference between set-up and execution/decision making. From what I have seen and heard our execution and decision making will be much better across the board This will make our set-ups look much better.

Totally agree that Johnson if he can hold down a spot will be a monty to take a number of kick-ins as he did for Melbourne when he played. I'd actually prefer Stevo and Gibbs only to take the kick-ins if they are playing down back. I'll concede that the position of the person taking the kick-in can cause a structural problem in later phases of play Defenders mainly please.

Bryan when he played for us had a twenty odd% goal ratio when kicking in, but it is not ideal to have your ruckman stuck down back for kick in duty, nor Simmo who has taken a lot of them for us since he became a regular.

 

[Bluebear]

I think against certain sides (Hawks, Roos) our kick-ins were terrible. We Kick in to the pocket or flank.......look up to see loads in the zone......kick back to the GS and switch....up to the next flank....oh dear.....more players......better bomb it long.......

Yet sides like the Pies we seem to be able to take it coast to coast without too much trouble.

I think we can be a lot more consistent and need to come up with a zone-buster strategy, which I notice Bower said something about in an article last week.

 

[drusswaylander]

I think against certain sides (Hawks, Roos) our kick-ins were terrible. We Kick in to the pocket or flank.......look up to see loads in the zone......kick back to the GS and switch....up to the next flank....oh dear.....more players......better bomb it long.......

Yet sides like the Pies we seem to be able to take it coast to coast without too much trouble.

I think we can be a lot more consistent and need to come up with a zone-buster strategy, which I notice Bower said something about in an article last week.

Agreed Geelong as well. Although overall they were just better sides. The Pies play more man on man, which probably supports the fact that we struggled against zones

 

[Blue Life]

Agreed Geelong as well. Although overall they were just better sides. The Pies play more man on man, which probably supports the fact that we struggled against zones

Agree with above we got murdered in these games. For mine I would only let 3 players kick out - Jammo Stevens and Johnson - do not let waite or carazzo anywhere near the kick ins

 

[drusswaylander]

Agree with above we got murdered in these games. For mine I would only let 3 players kick out - Jammo Stevens and Johnson - do not let waite or carazzo anywhere near the kick ins

Agreed Waite despite having a good year did have a lot of clangers. Which is why a player such as Hurley would have been a great weapon for us. A tall with an elite kick..sighs. Not that he was even available and Yarran has that X-factor and fills another need up forward anyway

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

Listening to ratten today, Johnson will be the main player we use for kick ins in 2009, sounded very confident that CJ had good enough foot skills to fill the role.

 

[kenhunter]

haven't watched our kick ins that closley but do remember AFC winning the mcg game last year by choking us in the back half from kick ins. Whatever we did wrong we should never repeat if we are to be a force in 2009

 

[WeAreHatedAgain]

Ratten's interview today clearly referenced the point that we struggle getting it out of defence due to our skill level. Hopefully we see an improvement in the NAB Cup.

 

[Team Mo']

Could anyone see O'Keeffe doing our kick ins in the future?

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

Having someone with real penetration and accuracy by foot certainly helps, which we only have possibly in Fev.

Although we may have scored on 10-12% of kickouts and rank #1 what happenned on the other 88% is probably what your mate is talking about.

The important thing is they have identified a problem and working hard to imorove it.....like Thy years ago with his attempted humour....it just shows what some effort and hard work can do

 

[lily of laguna]

Having someone with real penetration and accuracy by foot certainly helps, which we only have possibly in Fev.

Although we may have scored on 10-12% of kickouts and rank #1 what happenned on the other 88% is probably what your mate is talking about.

The important thing is they have identified a problem and working hard to imorove it.....like Thy years ago with his attempted humour....it just shows what some effort and hard work can do

This is the main issue I think.

We have definitely struggled with our structure/plan at kick-ins and while Im not disputing the %'s in the OP for goals scored, I wonder how we rank with goals scored against when we have a kick-in.

This stat may highlight how poorly we set-up at kick-ins.

Good to hear that we are addressing this and our other deficiences step by step.

 

[Team Mo']

The important thing is they have identified a problem and working hard to imorove it.....like Thy years ago with his attempted humour....it just shows what some effort and hard work can do

2007 wasn't that long ago?

 

[Salaryman]

Could anyone see O'Keeffe doing our kick ins in the future?

Quite possibly. During drills at training the other day he was positioned as the short option in the pocket.

As Druss alluded to, the bloke kicking in (IIRC CJ or Simmo) would assess all options then chip it short to O'Keefe as the fall back option.....in that sense O'Keefe's kicking skills are already highly regarded.

I reckon in the past we have seemed a bit stagnant or slow to offer options but hopefully with imroved foot skills the blokes offering the option around 50 will do so with more confidence.

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

Could anyone see O'Keeffe doing our kick ins in the future?

O'Keefe is still a fair way off making the team......let him play an AFL game first

 

[Team Mo']

^^^^^^^^^^
I believe future was the key word there?

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

^^^^^^^^^^
I believe future was the key word there?

just think its a little early to try predict the future ( he may also be our next Clint Benjamin - not all our kids are going to make it)....also believe you need at least couple down back to share the duties as someone close to goal can bring the ball back almost immediately these days.

Dont think it is a role that can be designated to just 1 person unless all options look covered

 

[Team Mo']

WOW I honestly didn't think this would bring up a deabt.e Of course I didn't mean O'Keeffe will kick in every time from now on.

He just looks a cool character who could handle the pressure. His skills are above average and would be a good kick-in if he can hold a spot.

Sorry for bringing any kind of conversation...

 

[Salaryman]

just think its a little early to try predict the future ( he may also be our next Clint Benjamin - not all our kids are going to make it)....also believe you need at least couple down back to share the duties as someone close to goal can bring the ball back almost immediately these days.

Dont think it is a role that can be designated to just 1 person unless all options look covered

The coach is a huge fan and doing cartwheels we got him at 60-odd and as I said they have already shown a fair bit of faith at training

 

[drusswaylander]

Having someone with real penetration and accuracy by foot certainly helps, which we only have possibly in Fev.

Although we may have scored on 10-12% of kickouts and rank #1 what happenned on the other 88% is probably what your mate is talking about.

The important thing is they have identified a problem and working hard to imorove it.....like Thy years ago with his attempted humour....it just shows what some effort and hard work can do

That is a fair point, although to hear my mate tell it, you would think that if we just improved our kick-in setups we would have been a top eight side

I think we may have had a few more important issues in 06 and 07. Our 07 list with the Geelong gameplan does not a premiership make. The cattle are very important.

 

[Warsaw]

Just give it to Mitch Robinson to do. The boy can kick the length of the field.

 

[Team Mo']

The coach is a huge fan and doing cartwheels we got him at 60-odd and as I said they have already shown a fair bit of faith at training

Settle down there Gilly.

Don't go predicting the future or anything like that.

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

The coach is a huge fan and doing cartwheels we got him at 60-odd and as I said they have already shown a fair bit of faith at training

Im not saying he was not a good get at 60......and if I remember you selected Benji @30 in the PD, so you would have considered him a great get in the 50's.

Showing faith at training is a good thing, but only time will tell how he adapts to AFL football.

We were probably doing cartwheels at getting Sporn @ 11 and Vance @6.....lets just see what eventuates, they cant all make it.

 

[drusswaylander]

This is the main issue I think.

We have definitely struggled with our structure/plan at kick-ins and while Im not disputing the %'s in the OP for goals scored, I wonder how we rank with goals scored against when we have a kick-in.

This stat may highlight how poorly we set-up at kick-ins.

Good to hear that we are addressing this and our other deficiences step by step.

Again a fair point, but we have been poor coming out of our backline at times regardless of it being point kickins. Poor setup or players lacking the skill or confidence to execute?

 

[THE AISSASSIN]

Again a fair point, but we have been poor coming out of our backline at times regardless of it being point kickins. Poor setup or players lacking the skill or confidence to execute?

We have also lacked the ability to bang it long straight up the middle to avoid the zones, and our ruckmen havent provided a decent marking option when we have struggled to find someone in the clear