Our Recruiting

[melbournemartin]

Go hard for people who want to play AFL football.

Private school boys who have been nursed through their juniors with sycophantic coaches will have complacency. Being told you're a star and you're going to play AFL one day can be stagnating, and well, pretty toxic for young people.

People like Michael Barlow, James Podsiadly, or even Kane Mitchell... guys who have done everything to play AFL, and guys who will do anything to be great footballers.

Well we did get Matt Jones for a start and that is looking promising.

 

[Cannon82]

To be fair, even at the time Cook was considered a surprise first round selection.



And it is telling no-one else bothered to step in and give him another crack when we moved him on. Just a dreadful selection.

Lynch was supposedly the best key forward at that draft, Cook was meant to be the next best. From memory anyway.

To put things in perspective, Cook was taken 4 places behind Heppell. I think the only other player in the top 30 from that draft yet to play a game is Jed Lamb.

 

[Andre the Giant]

Wasn't Howe considered a bit early the year you got him in the first round?? He's turned out a gun so sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't.

I am surprised you passed on Wines given his relationship with Viney, but I guess when Toumpas was available he was considered the better player and may well end up that way when he fills out. Geez Wines has impressed so far though and by all reports has a ripper can do attitude (as Toumpas also has).

 

[lamaros]

Your recruiting hasn't been amazing, but you still have enough decent players that you should be doing better than you are. That you have lost or gotten so little out of guys like Davey, Moloney, Sylvia, Rivers, etc is not due to recruitment, but player management. That so much pressure has been played on young guys like Trengove, Grimes, Viney, Watts is an issue of player management. Bate, Martin, Morton, Petterd, Gysberts - these are all guys other clubs have looked at and thought 'hmm, maybe they have AFL quality' despite you discarding them.

Every club ****s up a few early picks now and then.

I don't think recruitment is the big problem for you, it's player management and development. Pundits in the media didn't tip you to push for finals year after year because of draft pick numbers along, but because of the quality of your list and the demonstrated potential on show. That you have failed to realise that so far is not necessarily the recruiters weight to bear.

 

[BrunoV]

Trade Gysberts for Pederson when we lack midfield depth, delist Lucas Cook after 2 years after he was never given a shot.

Paul Roos said this, he said surely Lucas cook could play the roles of either Pesderson and Sellar, traded a promising midfielder to replace a player we never gave a chance to, doesn't make sense.

Stefan Martin is looking pretty good up in Brisbane. He is also approaching the age and level of experience when big kids turn into good players (whether they are key position players and/or rucks). In many ways, the personality clashes aside, going to the hassle of Martin out and Pederson in is the most bizarre decision.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Currently at Essendon as our midfield coach and has done wonders. Everything that comes out of the club is absolutely positive and he speaks with great insight.

Then we should be looking at him to replace Royal as our midfield coach.

If we were to replace Neeld, going with someone else equally untried at AFL level would be pure and simple masochism.

Maybe he might be able to perform as head coach, maybe he isn't - we wouldn't know - but we're too far down in the mire here to keep rolling the dice like that.

The only certain way out of this problem seems to be clearing out all three assistants, and if the situation doesn't change under Neeld, replacing him with an experienced and proven AFL coach. For example, Eade, Roos or Williams.

 

[Bluelegs]

Personally I'd like to have recently retired champions coaching the team, like what the Bulldogs did in getting scarlett for their backline. If Jonathan Brown was to retire this year I'd look into him as a forwardline coach, he'd certainly help when we have three key forwards in Dawes, Clark and Hogan. I'd ask Cameron Ling to coach our Midfield, or if they were to retire, maybe Simon Black, Lenny Hayes or Adam Goodes. Our coaches are all past their use-by date. Leigh Brown is perhaps the only one who isn't and our forwardline is probably the best looking part of the ground we have.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Exactly right. Good new idea there as well - hadn't thought of Jonathon Brown as a possibility when I put up my own list on the last page, but he'd be a magnificent appointment.

 

[Turbocat]

Look at Geelongs youth, every player has the best chance to shine. We needed to keep each of our older players for a year longer to give our now failed youth a chance to develop.

The last thing Im going to do is come in here and say do it like Geelong. Every club has to find their own way. Syd has theirs. Geelong has theirs. Is your youth development an area that can be your strength. Is your club one that is attractive to legit FA's? Is it something else again?

So why have your recruited the players you have? Too many people have short memories or want it all now. This can cause a momentum for change , some times premature change. Envious eyes can do the same thing. Looking at clubs , trying to do it their way etc. can tempt one to make a jump from your path to try to follow theirs. Is kids straight out of draft the best for you or is borderline mature FA's the best?. Should you be targeting 22 year olds that are struggling for game elsewhere(must be some up North you would think) I don't know. Perhaps this is the question that needs to be sold to your supporters cause its not clear to me and perhaps others what is the path for your future.

Of course its important when you bring people to your club that they buy into your club needs. , and not just players. Some people suit some clubs better than others. Speaking from when we had Ayres at Geelong , his approach didn't suit the DNA of most Geelong supporters , Thompsons approach gave him far more time because he seemed to bring a more "Geelong" way to his time.

Having gone for the coach who preaches a Malthouse method , it may take a little time turn the side into what he want. It may take a long . He may run out of time. Personally , I thought Hinkley would have suited your list better after your last coach was let go(just my opinion).but thats done. I honestly wish you guys all the best , as a son of Melb supporter I have a soft spot for you. I only hope you get thru this transition as quick as possible. I fear its going to be tough for you.

 

[Supermercado]

Go hard for people who want to play AFL football.

Private school boys who have been nursed through their juniors with sycophantic coaches will have complacency. Being told you're a star and you're going to play AFL one day can be stagnating, and well, pretty toxic for young people.

People like Michael Barlow, James Podsiadly, or even Kane Mitchell... guys who have done everything to play AFL, and guys who will do anything to be great footballers.

Fair point, but I can imagine Pods running around looking lost in our team while kicks towards him fly off the handle 10 metres either side.

And Kane Mitchell might turn out to be good, but if anybody has had an easier introduction to a win on debut in recent memories I've not seen it.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Fair point, but I can imagine Pods running around looking lost in our team while kicks towards him fly off the handle 10 metres either side.

And Kane Mitchell might turn out to be good, but if anybody has had an easier introduction to a win on debut in recent memories I've not seen it.

I meant a bit of a culture of recruiting blokes who are desperate to play AFL, not necessarily literally recruiting Podsiadly. Guys like Jack Watts are the results of so much hype and sycophancy that they don't really push themselves enough. It's not just limited to Watts. I think most people get complacent when they're consistently told that they'll achieve, that they're talented, that they're destined to hit the heights...

For what it's worth, I don't like Kane Mitchell as a player. I watched a fair bit of WAFL footy and can tell you that he's an athlete playing football. Can't kick, has no idea where to run, makes poor decisions, and simply has no footy brain. And I don't like him as a person much, either (he admitted that he grew his hair to attract votes and attention: which worked). But he's worked really, really hard to be able to run all day and pick up a swag of possies (without doing anything good with them, though). I dunno, maybe not Kane Mitchell the footballer, but Kane Mitchell the determined character.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Recruiting isn't the issue
Melbournes rebuild is based on hawthorns
The one missing ingredient is leadership

In 2005, when we began to blood the likes of franklin,roughead and Lewis, we had good leadership in vandenberg, dixon, smith and barker, players who bled brown and gold, and showed the new guys passion (which we've now lost)

They weren't the most talented, but they did have a passion for the jumper
Unfortunately, the dees don't seem to have this
Holding onto the likes of watts and viney will help a rebuild

 

[berniemccarthy]

Very true mate - that's where I'm at with my thinking about this. Royal and Rawlings need to go urgently, and I'd be replacing Brown too.

Maybe we could have a crack at Dunstall or Lynch to coach our forwards. I reckon that'd be worth pursuing, for example.

And Mal Michael would be a good option to go after as a backline coach. Ditto for Ashley McIntosh, Wakelin, Mick Martyn or Glenn Archer.

As far as midfield coaching... either Cameron Ling or Robert Harvey would definitely be worth chasing. Lappin and Ricciuto as well.

Why would Dunstall as a Director of Hawthorn do that ? Surely you jest.

 

[ThaiBarmats]

Living in Thailand, so my thoughts maybe off the mark. However, I feel the club should make every effort to get Junior MacDonald back to the club in some sort of coaching role.

Know it is only round 1, but Neeld does look he may be replaced by Viney senior (care-taker) midway thru the season if poor results continue. Gary Lyon 2014 ??? with support from MacDonald and Viney. Be great to have strong demon hearts involved again at the club.

Maybe should also throw heaps at Sam Mitchell (think out of contract next year). Offer him to become captain with Trenners/Grimes VC's. Really need an elite midfield leader on the ground for the next 2/3 years.

 

[berniemccarthy]

Lynch was supposedly the best key forward at that draft, Cook was meant to be the next best. From memory anyway.

To put things in perspective, Cook was taken 4 places behind Heppell. I think the only other player in the top 30 from that draft yet to play a game is Jed Lamb.

I seem to remember a lot of negative press regarding Cook on this board. Crying at training being too hard and the like. Does anyone recall this ?

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Why would Dunstall as a Director of Hawthorn do that ? Surely you jest.

Have to plead ignorance on that one.

Another idea though - maybe we should try to poach Anthony Rocca and/or Matthew Lappin from Collingwood? They're currently forward line coaches with the Pies. Worth thinking about I'd say.

 

[Supermercado]

Living in Thailand, so my thoughts maybe off the mark. However, I feel the club should make every effort to get Junior MacDonald back to the club in some sort of coaching role.

Know it is only round 1, but Neeld does look he may be replaced by Viney senior (care-taker) midway thru the season if poor results continue. Gary Lyon 2014 ??? with support from MacDonald and Viney. Be great to have strong demon hearts involved again at the club.

Maybe should also throw heaps at Sam Mitchell (think out of contract next year). Offer him to become captain with Trenners/Grimes VC's. Really need an elite midfield leader on the ground for the next 2/3 years.

Why? Just because he used to play for us? I know he inherited a shit sandwich even browner than Neeld's, but he hardly set the world alight coaching us to a struggling win over Gold Coast. It's so simplistic to sack the coach just because you can't sack the players - if this was a soccer team great, we could sell anyone with value and bring whoever we liked in on the cheap but we can't so time after time it's the coach who gets the bullet.

Maybe it's time for the players to put their hands up. Why wasn't Frawley running around like a dead man in the NAB Cup games? I watched us lose fair and square to St Kilda a few weeks ago in a performance that would have been disappointing but not awful in the regular season and now they come out and serve up this rubbish. Tell them to explain that. They certainly seemed to be "playing for the coach" that day.

If it doesn't work out at the end of this year and we change horses again fair enough (I suppose), but if they roll over under media pressure and axe him in round 5 when there is nothing to be gained for the rest of the season except some bullshit feelgood factor about the fact that we're getting another new coach (probably untried or unloved unless somebody's got Paul Roos lined up or Jeff gets his way with Clarko) I'll go mental.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Another promising notion that came out of one of the other threads - securing Gary Ayres from Port Melbourne to be our defensive coach? Reckon that'd be a fair boost for us if it could be done.

 

[ponsdale]

Go hard for people who want to play AFL football.

Private school boys who have been nursed through their juniors with sycophantic coaches will have complacency. Being told you're a star and you're going to play AFL one day can be stagnating, and well, pretty toxic for young people.

I don't think private school or public school makes a difference. Jack Viney went to private school and that doesn't seem to have made him soft. I just comes down to the individual and how much they want it.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

One thing I found odd.

Jimmy Toumpas had zero core strength, he was pushed off the ball so easily and then didn't work both ways.

I know this kid is young and I agree he will be an absolute gun for you lot.
But if the kid wasn't ready to play - he shouldn't of.

If he was deemed ready to play by the MFC, then they have no idea, ZERO.
I was absolutely staggered and gobsmacked.
I thought the kid done remarkably well considering his weakness through his core.

Whatever they've done to that kid Trengove as well, they've done a good job.
He used to be explosive, now he can't run out of sight on a rainy day.

Jimmy had hip surgery at the end of last year (before the draft) - that tends to impact on your core strength base!!!

As for Trenners, he put on too much weight last year - he's reportedly slimmed down and has gotten back a bit of his zip... he was never really explosive IMO, but quick enough.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Then we should be looking at him to replace Royal as our midfield coach.

If we were to replace Neeld, going with someone else equally untried at AFL level would be pure and simple masochism.

Maybe he might be able to perform as head coach, maybe he isn't - we wouldn't know - but we're too far down in the mire here to keep rolling the dice like that.

The only certain way out of this problem seems to be clearing out all three assistants, and if the situation doesn't change under Neeld, replacing him with an experienced and proven AFL coach. For example, Eade, Roos or Williams.

Problem for you with this is that I would not imagine a highly touted assistant would want to move from a bigger club for another assistant job. The only benefit might be that he might think Neeld may not last long and would you really want anyone taking on an assistant job not wanting to give full support to the senior coach?

Might be worth thinking left field. Sheedy will be available next year and despite what people say about whether he is coaching or not, GWS look on the right track and Sheedy might be worth hiring in some capacity. Regardless of what people think he has a wealth of experience and knowledge and always brings a large amount of promotion to any club he is involved with.

I do not know what Schwab has done or not, but it is concerning the club were going to sack him just prior to 186 then things changed. Melbourne on field has gone from bad to worse during his tenure. I cannot see an experienced proven AFL coach wanting to take the position at Melbourne while he is there after what happened with Bailey. While I think it's debatable his role and influence in these matters I believe you can find a CEO of equal business acumen that doesn't have the coloured history and that is worth pursuing.

As with others I don't believe your recruiting is the problem or significantly worse than any other club. Player development is the issue. Worth noting that ever since we poached Wellman your backline and Frawley have gone backwards, maybe the clearest indication that with the right people improvement with the current players can still occur.