Analysis Our structure, game plan and list management for the flag going forward

[Carringbush2010]

Structure:

• Backs, looks solid - Darcy Moore is something you can build younger developers around for long term. In the immediate it looks flag worthy with Howe and hopefully Langdon to return.

• Mids, at the minute looks one paced and one dimensional. TheGoey looks to be groomed for much more mid time in the immediate to short term. Pendles looks like he's continuing form for at least another season of exceptional consistency. Jordy going in will create a different look, he's going to be a contested bull if not already and will compliment that brigade. Consistent mid minutes will have a seismic shift for our form in there. Our forward dysfunction is the only reason he is not a full time mid IMO.

• Forwards, um.... for those of rose coloured glasses variety, best you look away now. It's a Frankenstien that is relying on a freak player to somehow drag it over the line and Cox is not a footballer - yet. Checkers is a solid 3rd tall but taller than our target key TheGoey.

• Even though this forward setup which lacks opportunist crumbers it's far from potential because of our game plan. My theory is the panel and committee have conceded they can't rely or use a 2018 style of game anymore and have also conceded we need a true KPF. On top of that there is currently a serious lack of confidence from both upfield delivery and forwards receiving (actually not) that delivery. That's why our game plan is possess until we can make sure of it, ends up in slow delivery allowing opp defence set up and why our upfield players put themselves under pressure. A disastrous combination.

Game plan:

• This is our biggest flaw, it's glaring. It's bizzare how we continue to handball in close to hospital situation as our pointed out above. My theory is that the instruction is uneffected free transition i50, and that's why we f*** around with the pill looking for that transition. That's all good and well if you possess players with silky skills like a wc or giants. We are not.

• My theory is that the panel and committee have gone away from that free flowing break neck speed style that we had in 18, it relied on two way gut running to outnumber at the contest AND on the outside - that is what gave us clear transition forward and why we scored and scored heavily, like the tiges still do now. This is what leads me to...........

List management:

• I seriously believe that Bucks had a vision of how to play the game, and it is clear previous to 2018 he had Dekka and co. target players to play it. Tactically brilliant and almost pulled it off in 2018. Now for whatever reason we can't return to it because the opp has learnt how to nullify it, while the tiges continue on their merry dynasty without changing their game. So what now?

• Well now it seems, the panel and committee have conceded that we're playing a 'normal' i:e not swarm and spread anymore, a game that requires a key forward, time will tell. Are we going to target a key forward in the off season for the immediate term? If not then looks like a concession from the panel and committee that the window has closed for mine, my guess is the club will target a key forward. This leads me to.............

Development and coaching:

• It's clear Will Kelly is being groomed as a KPF, I'm keen on this but I'm not so certain on the coaches developing him. Sanderson as a forward and ball movement coach speaks of where we're at. Harvey as a mid and transition coach also speaks of where we're at. Matty Boyd as a defence coach is also reflective of where we're at. Bring back the Buddha I say! I don't have confidence in this though.

• The one thing I do like is the development of some of younger players, Daicos, Noble, Tyler and the Q spring to mind. I reckon Reef and Nick will bolster that as well, oppo fans probably write off our younger stocks and they'd be wrong. My concern once again is the coaches developing them.

• Nathan: The reason I've had so much faith is because of the turnaround after 2017 with zero list change, unless you count Sam Murray. His game knowledge and how he applied that to the team to execute his 'vision' is rarely achieved for that sort or turn around. That faith is starting to wilt, and I'll explain. Ever since the GF we've regressed in form and it's clear that the manic style of 2018 that almost netted success is now defunct. That rise and demise is in part to do with the panel around him...........

• The departure of JL and Buddha has in my mind had a negative effect on the development of our squad.

And further on Nathan: From his presser last night and the look of his face after the game, it came across to me that he has conceded that his team is not the best in it. He mentioned Port were the best team. I get the impression he's lost belief, I certainly hope not as that could be mentally damaging to the squad or some of them. I'd rather they have conviction they can win the whole box and dice - even now, regardless of what us fans believe.

In summary, we are so so close yet universes away. We could easily be a dominant flag(s) group in the immediate to medium term, club needs to admit it's current failures learnings and address them.

One more thing - injuries and player availability: Rather than give the blind optimists ammo, I'm going to mention that injuries year on year have been a major thorn. Also player availability for which the club has control of is also a major thorn. Whatever the club has control of is a must for our fortunes going forward.

 

[magpie_marty]

Great post,
This list has been so overrated from the media and yes big footy.
2020 has proved where we are and we have no depth and a very over rated midfield

 

[Carringbush2010]

Great post,
This list has been so overrated from the media and yes big footy.
2020 has proved where we are and we have no depth and a very over rated midfield

But it's not far from being dominant, just a few tweaks here and there and there's a flag(s) in it................ so long as club owns up to itself and admits it.

 

[jonnyd4]

But it's not far from being dominant, just a few tweaks here and there and there's a flag(s) in it................ so long as club owns up to itself and admits it.

Agreed. You almost have to scrap this year, we were forced to use 40 players, whilst many players have underperformed you would have to think because of associated issues of being in the hub (e.g. Grundy, Stephenson). Shorter quarters and short turn around games have also hurt us, as well as the ability to train 'normally' as a group. You can't compare this year to the past two.

We were not far off last year, and whilst it was disappointing we were essentially a kick away from a grand final. I don't need to remind how close we were in 2018.

There are some adjustments we will need to make next year regardless of our outcome this year. We definitely have some 'dead wood' on our list we may need to clear and a couple of needs to improve our list. This of course is dependant on the number of list sizes the AFL will allow clubs for next year. We currently have 47 (inclusive 2 cat b) on our list. Let's say we need to have 40 for next year (not including cat b rookies) we may need to clear 9+ players to bring in some new players via trade, draft and free agency. Looking at contracts expiring this year the following could be on the chopping block:

Beams
Sharanberg
Varcoe
Reid
Wills
Lynch
Atu
Dunn
Broomhead

You could also consider Langdon retiring and possibly adding Appleby and the two Irish boys (although I think there is a list need for Keane).

These would all be delisted/retired as I don't think many would provide any currency on the trade table. Assuming the first 9 are gone at the end of the season we have 4 spots to fill list needs. What are the needs we see improving our list?

Key forward - this has been well discussed across the board. If we bring one in, are they going to have an immediate impact and be better than what we already have? Imo, if they are on a list and speculative than we may as well stick with Cox and Mioceck and draft in one to develop (We should do this regardless). Jeremy Cameron and Daniher are unrealistic of securing, perhaps Ben Brown may provide value if his knees are right and North aren't asking too much. Shache and Wright don't interest me unless it's a free hit and we have the list spot. Could Will Kelly have a major impact next year? The other question is will we go in with three talls or two? In the past when our ball movement has been positive and quick, two talls and a psuedo tall (Degoey) has worked. I think at a minimum we draft a young key forward to develop with Kelly in the reserves. If we decide to bring in an established key forward, they need to be better than what we have on the park. Is a fully fit and firing Ben Brown better than Cox? Yes. Could they both play on the same team? Probably not.

Midfielder - we have had our issues, particularly winning centre clearances this year. We should draft in Reef, however it is questionable if he will have an immediate impact. Question - how many times this year has Pendlebury, Adams, Treloar and Sidebottom all played in the same team this year? How good would it be to have all four of them, plus Degoey and Elliot rotating through there? From here, it's slim pickings however. Can Sier elevate himself and become a consistent fixture in that midfield? It would go a long way to solving some of our issues. I'd love to see Tyler Brown develop through there instead of a wing. If we could bring in an established big body on the cheap it would be ideal, just in case of injury and so that we aren't too reliant on the starting brigade. Reef will come in, but we will need to give him time to develop, as well as the ongoing development of Rantall.

Key back - Roughead, Moore and Keane all have size, whilst Madgen is undersized and is better off taking mid sized forwards. We could definitely draft a key back or like we have in the past find a cheap recycled option. Although they will more than likely be a injury replacement for one of the starting two. Unless it is someone of the quality of Tom McDonald and we can potentially have Moore roaming third tall in the backline.

Small forward - A player with more scoreboard impact who crums off the big fellas and is quick applying defensive pressure inside 50 is a definite need. We have seen our small forward brigade struggle at various times this year. Josh Thomas, Callum Brown have failed to impact the scoreboard this year, the latter has time to develop. Stephenson has been horribly out of form, one would hope that he improves from is output this year. WHE has been underwhelming, however has X factor with his marking ability and can push up the ground as a high half forward and Elliot has found himself more in the midfield this year. The ideal type of player is quite difficult to find, especially an established one. However, with not as many injuries (unlikely), we could see Elliot and Sidebottom causing havoc in the forward line and pinch hitting in the middle only when required, hence why this would be the last preference of positional needs. Can Cal Brown develop more consistency and hit the scoreboard more often? Can Stephenson recapture his 2018 and early 2019 form? Perhaps using the rookie list to take a chance on a small crumbing forward.

Looking at our list - we could go into next year with what we have and draft some kids and come close. However, we can increase our chances with an established players who will improve our starting 22. I think it is important the club continues to draft young talent so i would avoid trading first rounders (And possibly second). So can the club be thrifty enough to find alternative ways to bring in established talent. Could it be trading away a player we perceive as 10 to 25 on our list to bring in a significant need?

 

[sr36]

Great post,
This list has been so overrated from the media and yes big footy.
2020 has proved where we are and we have no depth and a very over rated midfield

Or alternatively it's proved we're poorly coached.

 

[loki04]

Sadly it seems we will never see the best of Moore the fwd, i truly believe hed be a 70 goal plus star up there with a large highlight reel.
Someone you go to watch the footy for.

 

[Rusty Beam]

Jake Niall wrote a pretty good article which sums us up accurately I reckon:

What's wrong with Collingwood? Buckley knows

Nathan Buckley's words were, as ever, measured and precise. The Magpies hadn't performed the basics well enough and had been cleaned out at the centre bounces.

www.theage.com.au

 

[stormskye]

Jake Niall wrote a pretty good article which sums us up accurately I reckon:

What's wrong with Collingwood? Buckley knows

Nathan Buckley's words were, as ever, measured and precise. The Magpies hadn't performed the basics well enough and had been cleaned out at the centre bounces.

www.theage.com.au

I think he came into the BF forum and copied all of us tbh

 

[Rusty Beam]

I think he came into the BF forum and copied all of us tbh

Yeah sounds familiar.

As a Pies man he’s probably more across it than most too.

I reckon it’s a great article and concisely summarises our significant issues. Most pointedly, that we create pressure on ourselves with our game style. We are our own worst enemy.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Agreed. You almost have to scrap this year, we were forced to use 40 players, whilst many players have underperformed you would have to think because of associated issues of being in the hub (e.g. Grundy, Stephenson). Shorter quarters and short turn around games have also hurt us, as well as the ability to train 'normally' as a group. You can't compare this year to the past two.

We were not far off last year, and whilst it was disappointing we were essentially a kick away from a grand final. I don't need to remind how close we were in 2018.

There are some adjustments we will need to make next year regardless of our outcome this year. We definitely have some 'dead wood' on our list we may need to clear and a couple of needs to improve our list. This of course is dependant on the number of list sizes the AFL will allow clubs for next year. We currently have 47 (inclusive 2 cat b) on our list. Let's say we need to have 40 for next year (not including cat b rookies) we may need to clear 9+ players to bring in some new players via trade, draft and free agency. Looking at contracts expiring this year the following could be on the chopping block:

Beams
Sharanberg
Varcoe
Reid
Wills
Lynch
Atu
Dunn
Broomhead

You could also consider Langdon retiring and possibly adding Appleby and the two Irish boys (although I think there is a list need for Keane).

These would all be delisted/retired as I don't think many would provide any currency on the trade table. Assuming the first 9 are gone at the end of the season we have 4 spots to fill list needs. What are the needs we see improving our list?

Key forward - this has been well discussed across the board. If we bring one in, are they going to have an immediate impact and be better than what we already have? Imo, if they are on a list and speculative than we may as well stick with Cox and Mioceck and draft in one to develop (We should do this regardless). Jeremy Cameron and Daniher are unrealistic of securing, perhaps Ben Brown may provide value if his knees are right and North aren't asking too much. Shache and Wright don't interest me unless it's a free hit and we have the list spot. Could Will Kelly have a major impact next year? The other question is will we go in with three talls or two? In the past when our ball movement has been positive and quick, two talls and a psuedo tall (Degoey) has worked. I think at a minimum we draft a young key forward to develop with Kelly in the reserves. If we decide to bring in an established key forward, they need to be better than what we have on the park. Is a fully fit and firing Ben Brown better than Cox? Yes. Could they both play on the same team? Probably not.

Midfielder - we have had our issues, particularly winning centre clearances this year. We should draft in Reef, however it is questionable if he will have an immediate impact. Question - how many times this year has Pendlebury, Adams, Treloar and Sidebottom all played in the same team this year? How good would it be to have all four of them, plus Degoey and Elliot rotating through there? From here, it's slim pickings however. Can Sier elevate himself and become a consistent fixture in that midfield? It would go a long way to solving some of our issues. I'd love to see Tyler Brown develop through there instead of a wing. If we could bring in an established big body on the cheap it would be ideal, just in case of injury and so that we aren't too reliant on the starting brigade. Reef will come in, but we will need to give him time to develop, as well as the ongoing development of Rantall.

Key back - Roughead, Moore and Keane all have size, whilst Madgen is undersized and is better off taking mid sized forwards. We could definitely draft a key back or like we have in the past find a cheap recycled option. Although they will more than likely be a injury replacement for one of the starting two. Unless it is someone of the quality of Tom McDonald and we can potentially have Moore roaming third tall in the backline.

Small forward - A player with more scoreboard impact who crums off the big fellas and is quick applying defensive pressure inside 50 is a definite need. We have seen our small forward brigade struggle at various times this year. Josh Thomas, Callum Brown have failed to impact the scoreboard this year, the latter has time to develop. Stephenson has been horribly out of form, one would hope that he improves from is output this year. WHE has been underwhelming, however has X factor with his marking ability and can push up the ground as a high half forward and Elliot has found himself more in the midfield this year. The ideal type of player is quite difficult to find, especially an established one. However, with not as many injuries (unlikely), we could see Elliot and Sidebottom causing havoc in the forward line and pinch hitting in the middle only when required, hence why this would be the last preference of positional needs. Can Cal Brown develop more consistency and hit the scoreboard more often? Can Stephenson recapture his 2018 and early 2019 form? Perhaps using the rookie list to take a chance on a small crumbing forward.

Looking at our list - we could go into next year with what we have and draft some kids and come close. However, we can increase our chances with an established players who will improve our starting 22. I think it is important the club continues to draft young talent so i would avoid trading first rounders (And possibly second). So can the club be thrifty enough to find alternative ways to bring in established talent. Could it be trading away a player we perceive as 10 to 25 on our list to bring in a significant need?

To answer your question on the blue chip mids in the same team, counting the port game it's 5 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Still that mid brigade got smashed up for clearances against them. Port has a big bodied midfield and if I am correct they number 1 for clearances, no surprises there. If the bear could find form and attitude we'd match em there.

If you look at the metrics around the ball in at least 90% of games win or lose we win most of them as well as key indicators like i50.

If I could put it one area what our problem is, it really is how we move and use the ball but of course the problem is a combination of things, not just game style.

The list doesn't need much work, certainly a Key forward, beyond that it's chipping off the dead edges and streamlining what we already have and there's flag(s) in there IMO.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Or alternatively it's proved we're poorly coached.

That's a yes from me, everyone's immediate thoughts will read my mind as that is Buckley.

Babow, if you look deeper and many have mentioned - the assistant coaches are reflective of the way we're playing at the moment. It's a key indicator of where our strengths and weaknesses are



It's not wholly and solely the problem and it does not absolve Buckley of any accountability, however if we can get this area right - even without list change it makes the team an immediate threat.

Fix this area and it goes a long way to the clubs goal................................ just got to admit it to themselves, if they do that Harvey and Sanderson would / will be gone and Buddha would get an invite back.

Time will tell but I don't have confidence this will change.

 

[Doc1763]

That's a yes from me, everyone's immediate thoughts will read my mind as that is Buckley.

Babow, if you look deeper and many have mentioned - the assistant coaches are reflective of the way we're playing at the moment. It's a key indicator of where our strengths and weaknesses are

View attachment 968638

It's not wholly and solely the problem and it does not absolve Buckley of any accountability, however if we can get this area right - even without list change it makes the team an immediate threat.

Fix this area and it goes a long way to the clubs goal................................ just got to admit it to themselves, if they do that Harvey and Sanderson would / will be gone and Buddha would get an invite back.

Time will tell but I don't have confidence this will change.

Matthew Boyd has done a great job with the defence. The other two can leave the building as soon as our season is over.

 

[OniAu]

Great post,
This list has been so overrated from the media and yes big footy.
2020 has proved where we are and we have no depth and a very over rated midfield

Biggest joke was start of 2019 when the " best midfield ever" quotes were being thrown around on Beams,Pendles,Sidey,Adams , Treloar

 

[Carringbush2010]

Matthew Boyd has done a great job with the defence. The other two can leave the building as soon as our season is over.

We're in agreement, hopefully the club looks at this and takes action.

 

[jsdsgn]

Game plan in a nutshell:

Plan A: Chip it around in the back half until we see an opening to go forward after 5 minutes of chip kicking backwards.
Try and bite off the kick in the middle, or go down the line.
If we go down the line, ball gets intercepted. If we kick into the middle, our lack of foot skill sees the ball turned over.
Pray that Moore saves us when it goes back into the backline.
Repeat steps until it works for the first time in 10 minutes.

Plan B: Bomb it on Cox or De Goey's head.

Plan C: Give it to Pendlebury

 

[Carringbush2010]

Sadly it seems we will never see the best of Moore the fwd, i truly believe hed be a 70 goal plus star up there with a large highlight reel.
Someone you go to watch the footy for.

There's argument that the rigors of being a key forward is not ideal for Moore body wise, as far as a key forward for us it's clear Kelly is being groomed as just that. In the immediate term we need a proper KPF, not an ex basketballer trying to quasi fit him in the mould, question is can we afford it.

 

[loki04]

To answer your question on the blue chip mids in the same team, counting the port game it's 5 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Still that mid brigade got smashed up for clearances against them. Port has a big bodied midfield and if I am correct they number 1 for clearances, no surprises there. If the bear could find form and attitude we'd match em there.

If you look at the metrics around the ball in at least 90% of games win or lose we win most of them as well as key indicators like i50.

If I could put it one area what our problem is, it really is how we move and use the ball but of course the problem is a combination of things, not just game style.

The list doesn't need much work, certainly a Key forward, beyond that it's chipping off the dead edges and streamlining what we already have and there's flag(s) in there IMO.

I would argue the 22 has holes that need addressing.

KPF who is well rounded can mark on lead or compete in the contest 1v1 and reliable goal kicker etc.
Pacey burst mid with power.
More midfield pace in general including wingers in this.
Genuine extractor with a big body.
X-factor crumbing creative fwds who can ALSO provide pressure (L.Davis, C.Rioli, S.Milne, E.Betts types), not workhorse role playing smalls who only provide pressure (aka Blair Thomas C.Brown etc).

I guess you could argue a deck chair reshuffle and we could address some of it, but then we open holes up elsewhere.

Maynard and Degoey added to midfield rotations would add a powerful dynamic.
Degoey 60/40 split fwd/mid and Maynard full time.
Moore to FF adds the missing KPF who is well rounded.
Treloar moved to wing.

 

[loki04]

There's argument that the rigors of being a key forward is not ideal for Moore body wise, as far as a key forward for us it's clear Kelly is being groomed as just that. In the immediate term we need a proper KPF, not an ex basketballer trying to quasi fit him in the mould, question is can we afford it.

Yeah I dont buy it, Re The argument on his hammys and being fwd more liability to be injured.

He has done a couple as a defender as well before he saw the guru.

At the end of the day he has to put in some big strides as a defender to match a fwd who has the initiative he also has to turn if they turn and hes chasing just like Gray did to him.

Why did ben reids soft tissue injuries start as a defender and they moved him fwd?
Think people are just looking for an extra reason to keep him back there. I say extra because he is a bloody great defender as well.

 

[manicpie]

You will always fall short when you have makeshift players occupying multiple lines. The only sound players we have seem to be defenders

 

[Carringbush2010]

I would argue the 22 has holes that need addressing.

KPF who is well rounded can mark on lead or compete in the contest 1v1 and reliable goal kicker etc.
Pacey burst mid with power.
More midfield pace in general including wingers in this.
Genuine extractor with a big body.
X-factor crumbing creative fwds who can ALSO provide pressure (L.Davis, C.Rioli, S.Milne, E.Betts types), not workhorse role playing smalls who only provide pressure (aka Blair Thomas C.Brown etc).

I guess you could argue a deck chair reshuffle and we could address some of it, but then we open holes up elsewhere.

Maynard and Degoey added to midfield rotations would add a powerful dynamic.
Degoey 60/40 split fwd/mid and Maynard full time.
Moore to FF adds the missing KPF who is well rounded.
Treloar moved to wing.

As I stated in the op I'd argue TheGoey is your burst type mid, we've seen it before, he can do this and it improves our mid set up visually so. You can literally see the difference. I'd argue he's being groomed as that type of Danger / Dusty type by the club but that has been kyboshed because of our frankenstien forward set up.

However as I also stated in the op the way we play is hampering every line on the field, particularly forward. The instruction seems to be 'deliver only on certainty' - trying to set up the perfect i50 delivery requires gaining clear transition, not to mention good presentation from your forwards, so we chip it around, invite pressure and inevitably turn it over and rely on our stellar backs to defend them. Or bite the bullet and drop it on the basketballers head and hope for the best. Either way not flag worthy.

Harvey: midfield and transition coach
Sanderson: forward line and ball movement coach

I think this is clearly a problem and is reflective of the way we play, whether that is Bucks instructing his panel to coach this way or it's just poor development on their part or a combination of both seems clearly the problem.

I think most posters and fans disregard development too much, look at post 17 with zero list change.

The x factor crumber, IF we could free up our midfield i:e TheGoey as a full time mid, a proper KPF, and a game that delivers quick i50 I'd like to see Daicos there. He is literally built for this - I reckon he's his old man. He could be that Betts, Davis, Rioli type instead of him being used upfield to fix the f*** ups there.

I like the Treloar on the wing, again Jordy mid, and Sides on the other wing. That looks a dangerous set up.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yeah I dont buy it, Re The argument on his hammys and being fwd more liability to be injured.

He has done a couple as a defender as well before he saw the guru.

At the end of the day he has to put in some big strides as a defender to match a fwd who has the initiative he also has to turn if they turn and hes chasing just like Gray did to him.

Why did ben reids soft tissue injuries start as a defender and they moved him fwd?
Think people are just looking for an extra reason to keep him back there. I say extra because he is a bloody great defender as well.

Well unless we're sports scientists we're only speculating, yeah I'd like two of him too. Moore is clearly going to be a generation CHB. I'd like to keep him there and ADD a proper KPF.

 

[Stripes B and W]

We're in agreement, hopefully the club looks at this and takes action.

While i don't disagree with the sentiment of the OP, don't you see a trend here?

Calls to throw out assistants are constant when clubs fall below expectations ( real or imagined ) JL leaves and the backline holds up, I wonder if it would of had Sanderson been reassigned to the back line? Of course we know the answer to that, it would of.

It's very clear the backline hold up strongly because the 7 or 8 guys we have regularly used there are extremely good players!!!

The mids are a 6 out of 10 because Grundy is hugely down on last years, we cannot use our best inside mid actually in that spot, we havent had our starting mid line up all year and they are over rated. ( when the call were that they were best in comp. they are not )

The forward line is a disaster because the 6-10 guys we use in that part of the ground are way below standard, it would matter if JL or you or I coached them!!

I'm with Moore back as well, but pls bolster the talls up front!

List management was a disaster going into this season, an unmitigated train wreck.

Dunne should not have been a listed player
One of Varcoe or Reid ( i would have gone with Reidy bcs he was a list need being able to play as a KPF )
It would have great to have had the Beams issue resolved
It was strongly suspected Langdon would have struggled to play this year
Levi Greenwood probably wouldn't have played at all but for the covid pause.
Tim B was contracted for another year, did anyone really believe he would have impacted this year?

That is a huge chunk of players, that hand on heart, we knew would not help our efforts for a flag this year. The decision to retain all of the above, rather than 3 or 4 max combined with a normal/usual number of unavailable players due to injury ( that all clubs have ) have left us threadbare all year in the 16-22 range each week.
We cannot say that the next best 18 yo that wasnt drafted or the next best state league player would have done better that Dunn, Varc's, Beams or Broomhead but we just may have found a player or two. We can ourselves no chance. I'd have rolled the dice the other way.

 

[Carringbush2010]

While i don't disagree with the sentiment of the OP, don't you see a trend here?

Calls to throw out assistants are constant when clubs fall below expectations ( real or imagined ) JL leaves and the backline holds up, I wonder if it would of had Sanderson been reassigned to the back line? Of course we know the answer to that, it would of.

It's very clear the backline hold up strongly because the 7 or 8 guys we have regularly used there are extremely good players!!!

The mids are a 6 out of 10 because Grundy is hugely down on last years, we cannot use our best inside mid actually in that spot, we havent had our starting mid line up all year and they are over rated. ( when the call were that they were best in comp. they are not )

The forward line is a disaster because the 6-10 guys we use in that part of the ground are way below standard, it would matter if JL or you or I coached them!!

I'm with Moore back as well, but pls bolster the talls up front!

List management was a disaster going into this season, an unmitigated train wreck.

Dunne should not have been a listed player
One of Varcoe or Reid ( i would have gone with Reidy bcs he was a list need being able to play as a KPF )
It would have great to have had the Beams issue resolved
It was strongly suspected Langdon would have struggled to play this year
Levi Greenwood probably wouldn't have played at all but for the covid pause.
Tim B was contracted for another year, did anyone really believe he would have impacted this year?

That is a huge chunk of players, that hand on heart, we knew would not help our efforts for a flag this year. The decision to retain all of the above, rather than 3 or 4 max combined with a normal/usual number of unavailable players due to injury ( that all clubs have ) have left us threadbare all year in the 16-22 range each week.
We cannot say that the next best 18 yo that wasnt drafted or the next best state league player would have done better that Dunn, Varc's, Beams or Broomhead but we just may have found a player or two. We can ourselves no chance. I'd have rolled the dice the other way.

It's a combination of things that bare our woes, not just list, not just development (coaching) and not just game style. It's all of it, and I stand by my position it wouldn't take much to make the whole thing flagworthy.

For that to happen the club has to admit to that and make those not much changes to achieve the end game.

As far as the bulk of your argument, re list, yes I agree there are holes - some of that could be markedly improved purely by good development. In any case it looks we're going to a 38 - 40. That will clear some deadwood IF the club does the right thing and delists the players that need delisting AND trades for the right players (types).

 

[jackcass]

That's a yes from me, everyone's immediate thoughts will read my mind as that is Buckley.

Babow, if you look deeper and many have mentioned - the assistant coaches are reflective of the way we're playing at the moment. It's a key indicator of where our strengths and weaknesses are

View attachment 968638

It's not wholly and solely the problem and it does not absolve Buckley of any accountability, however if we can get this area right - even without list change it makes the team an immediate threat.

Fix this area and it goes a long way to the clubs goal................................ just got to admit it to themselves, if they do that Harvey and Sanderson would / will be gone and Buddha would get an invite back.

Time will tell but I don't have confidence this will change.

I do love it when these sorts of threads come up. Does anyone actually know if these guys are good - bad - indifferent coaches or are we just putting 2+2 together and coming up with Einstein's theory of relativity?

Ditto game plan?

My guess is that most are much like myself, completely devoid of any factual knowledge to either question.

Some see a silly handball in congestion and assume it's the game plan or a coaching directive, I see a silly handball in congestion and see a conditioned response that has been ingrained into the vast majority of players since juniors. I think the answer likely lies somewhere in between.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I do love it when these sorts of threads come up. Does anyone actually know if these guys are good - bad - indifferent coaches or are we just putting 2+2 together and coming up with Einstein's theory of relativity?

Ditto game plan?

My guess is that most are much like myself, completely devoid of any factual knowledge to either question.

Some see a silly handball in congestion and assume it's the game plan or a coaching directive, I see a silly handball in congestion and see a conditioned response that has been ingrained into the vast majority of players since juniors. I think the answer likely lies somewhere in between.

Everyone's right to speculate, I'm not part of the inner sanctum at the club, so we have a forum to speculate on.

BF posters are not completely devoid of any football knowledge otherwise BF wouldn't exist, again we can only speculate on what evidence we have in front of us.

So what is you're speculation on how the club should go about moving toward that flag(s)? Or are you in the do nothing camp and thinly veil an attempt to pot shot the op?

Consider the evidence of the team performance over the year(s) to make your speculation, or continue to pot shot - your choice.