Outcoached...

[hbk_aus]

maybe im reading this the wrong way so dont take offense, but are you saying that its the players that are making us play as good as we are at the moment.

If so if we lost the next 10 would you blame the coach or players.

People are to hard on bomber, all he can do is set the plan. However if the players fail etc then he always gets the blame.

pretty hard to be out coached when you win btw.

We are saying that he is doing the right thing durng the week, but is not the best at reacting to new situations that are thrown at us by opposition coaches. As u said, he sets a plan, but he also must react when that plan is countered.

 

[DanA]

maybe im reading this the wrong way so dont take offense, but are you saying that its the players that are making us play as good as we are at the moment.

If so if we lost the next 10 would you blame the coach or players.

People are to hard on bomber, all he can do is set the plan. However if the players fail etc then he always gets the blame.

pretty hard to be out coached when you win btw.

No offense taken. I think Bomber has masterminded the style of play we are playing now and a large amount of our current success can be attriburted to him. Equally though he consistently get matchups wrong on gameday in my opinion. Things like:
* Tenace one out in the goal square with Welsh
* Not knowing who is picking up Simpson
* Keeping Harley on Brad Johnson for too long
These are examples of (what I veiw as) tactical mistakes.

- I think Bomber failed to come up with a plan when we lost our ruckmen against Sydney in that final.
- I think that Bomber made some tactically inept decisions against
Westcoast last year when they came back from 50 point down.

Obviously you take the good with the bad and overall I think he is a good coach. I just think he is particularly bad at making decisons on his feet.

 

[Asty]

No offense taken. I think Bomber has masterminded the style of play we are playing now and a large amount of our current success can be attriburted to him. Equally though he consistently get matchups wrong on gameday in my opinion. Things like:
* Tenace one out in the goal square with Welsh
* Not knowing who is picking up Simpson
* Keeping Harley on Brad Johnson for too long
These are examples of (what I veiw as) tactical mistakes.

- I think Bomber failed to come up with a plan when we lost our ruckmen against Sydney in that final.
- I think that Bomber made some tactically inept decisions against
Westcoast last year when they came back from 50 point down.

Obviously you take the good with the bad and overall I think he is a good coach. I just think he is particularly bad at making decisons on his feet.

I dont know that all those decisions are that bad
* Tenace in goal square good opportunity for Bomber to see how tenace goes in that situation yes it didn't suit him but if it did then in the future he could become a solution to when the opposition throw a short fast player in the square. Had to give him some time to see if the adjusted.

* That was BS there is no doubt they knew who was on simpson and it was just an off the cuff remark to the media rather than pointing the finger at players in particular

* Harley on BJ was probably a bit too long but it was so long ago now I cant remember.

Cant remember what his options were for ruckmen in the sydney game. But probably should have done something about Davis when he started to get on song.

WCE last year seemed more like a fitness issue where they ran over the top rather than any particular coaching error on the day.

 

[DanA]

I dont know that all those decisions are that bad
* Tenace in goal square good opportunity for Bomber to see how tenace goes in that situation yes it didn't suit him but if it did then in the future he could become a solution to when the opposition throw a short fast player in the square. Had to give him some time to see if the adjusted.

* That was BS there is no doubt they knew who was on simpson and it was just an off the cuff remark to the media rather than pointing the finger at players in particular

* Harley on BJ was probably a bit too long but it was so long ago now I cant remember.

Cant remember what his options were for ruckmen in the sydney game. But probably should have done something about Davis when he started to get on song.

WCE last year seemed more like a fitness issue where they ran over the top rather than any particular coaching error on the day.

Obviously it is a matter of opinion and those are just some examples that stand out to me. I have got the benifit of hindsight as well.

But for the sake of debate I will offer my opinions:

Re Tenace; fair enough I can except that
Re Simpson; Ling was tagging Wells (too fast) while Simpson (a better matchup) racked up something like 45 possesions.
Re Harley on BJ; It was 3 quarters of domination by Brad Johnson before a move was made.
Re Sydney; Mooney was the only option but he should have clogged up the middle (it was wet) and turned the game into a bore fest.
Re Westcoast; Moving Mooney down to the backline cut off our only effective forward option.

 

[rizzo]

I think as fans its very hard to speculate tactical decisions. We are not in the coaches box when decisions are being discussed. For all we know Geelong wanted to make Welsh Acoountable. etc.

 

[hbk_aus]

I think as fans its very hard to speculate tactical decisions. We are not in the coaches box when decisions are being discussed. For all we know Geelong wanted to make Welsh Acoountable. etc.

Which means leaving him alone in the oppositions goal square? Putting a wingman at full back on him?

 

[rizzo]

Which means leaving him alone in the oppositions goal square? Putting a wingman at full back on him?

Depends what your options down back were doesn't it. Welsh is to small and agile for the likes of Harley, Egan, Scarlett. Besides bomber has to try and find a position for ace.

 

[catempire]

Come off it rizzo, any of those players would have been better on Welsh than Tenace. There would have been 21 players better on Welsh than Tenace.

It was one of the worst coaching moves (or non-moves) I've seen all year. There should be little debate about that.

 

[rizzo]

Come off it rizzo, any of those players would have been better on Welsh than Tenace. There would have been 21 players better on Welsh than Tenace.

It was one of the worst coaching moves (or non-moves) I've seen all year. There should be little debate about that.

people shit can bomber for not being innovative enough, then they shit can him for being out coached when he actually tries something. The guy cannot win. Fair enough, the tenace move didn't work, but god if that the only mistake a coach makes during a match we are going ok.

I just find the double standards amusing. If Welsh had kicked those goals on harley, egan, woj etc nothing would be said. But because it is tenace there is a huge up roar.

 

[catempire]

people shit can bomber for not being innovative enough, then they shit can him for being out coached when he actually tries something. The guy cannot win. Fair enough, the tenace move didn't work, but god if that the only mistake a coach makes during a match we are going ok.

I just find the double standards amusing. If Welsh had kicked those goals on harley, egan, woj etc nothing would be said. But because it is tenace there is a huge up roar.

Ha! Not making a move is innovative?

Welsh WOULDN'T have kicked those goals on the other players. If he had, we would have blamed the players, not Bomber, because they would have been appropriate match-ups (Woj excluded - probably the 21st best option for Welsh !).

 

[rizzo]

Ha! Not making a move is innovative?

Welsh WOULDN'T have kicked those goals on the other players. If he had, we would have blamed the players, not Bomber, because they would have been appropriate match-ups (Woj excluded - probably the 21st best option for Welsh !).

So we would of had a thread bagging Harley for costing us two goals. Bahaha unlikely.

Obviously bomber and McCartney though it was a good match up or they wouldn't have done it. It didn't work we all learned its time to move on.

Every coach does that sort of thing, sometimes it pays off sometimes it doesn't. The only real reason why its been brought up is because bomber is put under so much pressure from the fans week in and week out.

I don't think ive met a coach with a team ontop of the ladder have his role criticized as much as bomber does.

 

[catempire]

So we would of had a thread bagging Harley for costing us two goals. Bahaha unlikely.

No, didn't say that. I said we would have blamed him though. Plus, it wouldn't have happened because it would have been A GOOD MATCHUP!

Obviously bomber and McCartney though it was a good match up or they wouldn't have done it. It didn't work we all learned its time to move on.

Every coach does that sort of thing, sometimes it pays off sometimes it doesn't. The only real reason why its been brought up is because bomber is put under so much pressure from the fans week in and week out.

I don't think ive met a coach with a team ontop of the ladder have his role criticized as much as bomber does.

Hence the reason for the thread. It didn't work. Blame is warranted. We're not asking for him to be sacked over it. Appropriate and even handed criticism is fair enough.

 

[Just do something]

No, didn't say that. I said we would have blamed him though. Plus, it wouldn't have happened because it would have been A GOOD MATCHUP!



Hence the reason for the thread. It didn't work. Blame is warranted. We're not asking for him to be sacked over it. Appropriate and even handed criticism is fair enough.

The one thing i did notice and i was down that end was that every time Tenace went to someone different they woulk then drag him back to the square 1 out.

The backline were actually swapping and changing to try to release him higher up the ground.
I think more smart paly from the bombers players if anything.

 

[My5t3r10u5]

Most people seem to have the opinion that if a particular move does not bear fruit immediately it is a bad move. I find that unbelievably short sighted and I'm glad they are not coaching the Cats. So Welsh kicked 2 goals on Tenace - BIG DEAL...get a life, it's not the end of civilisation as we know it!

Think about this. Tenace has now had the experience of being dragged to the goal line and having to defend against a ball being kicked quickly in to the goal square. Sure he got beaten, but he now knows what he did didn't work. He is surrounded by experienced players who can teach him better ways to defend so the next time it happens he can try something different, improve on what he did. This is what coaching is all about!

In addition, Bomber has now learnt a bit more about the capabilities of one of his players. He can now choose to persist with developing the player in that role if he believes the potential is there or he can decide that on the evidence to date this is not worth persisting with and work within that limitation.

Given our current form and ladder position I think it is fantastic that Bomber is testing out players in different situations. Whether they come off or not, he is continually learning more about the players' capabilities.

I learnt this lesson many years ago when I watched one of Bluey McGrath's first games. Jason Dunstall monstered him and kicked an absolute bag on him and Blighty persisted with him all game and all season. We ended up with a great defender but there was a bit of pain before the gain!

So please, stop judging a player on 15 minutes of footy!

 

[hoody]

This thread says so much about Geelong supporters.
Nine in a row is just not good enough.
Lets NOT give Bomber the credit for the teams' current success.
However, as head coach he MUST take the blame for ALL the failed moves.
Of the hundreds of strategic/tactical moves made so far this year, lets discuss the ones that HAVEN'T work and shitcan the coach.
Surely Costa, Cook and Balmey should trawl through the BF Geelong Board and get in contact with some of the know all w***ers that think they know better than the people that are getting paid the big bucks to control the team on match days.
These posters with such tremendous knowledge of the modern game could surely deliver the flag we deserve.

 

[hbk_aus]

This thread says so much about Geelong supporters.
Nine in a row is just not good enough.
Lets NOT give Bomber the credit for the teams' current success.
However, as head coach he MUST take the blame for ALL the failed moves.
Of the hundreds of strategic/tactical moves made so far this year, lets discuss the ones that HAVEN'T work and shitcan the coach.
Surely Costa, Cook and Balmey should trawl through the BF Geelong Board and get in contact with some of the know all w***ers that think they know better than the people that are getting paid the big bucks to control the team on match days.
These posters with such tremendous knowledge of the modern game could surely deliver the flag we deserve.

If you actually read the initial post u will see that i said he is doing a superb job overall. Are we not allowed to critique coaches or players just because we are winning? Its a forum for discussion, on players and coaches alike. If u dont want to participate, then feel free to not enter the thread and read it.

 

[rizzo]

This thread says so much about Geelong supporters.
Nine in a row is just not good enough.
Lets NOT give Bomber the credit for the teams' current success.
However, as head coach he MUST take the blame for ALL the failed moves.
Of the hundreds of strategic/tactical moves made so far this year, lets discuss the ones that HAVEN'T work and shitcan the coach.
Surely Costa, Cook and Balmey should trawl through the BF Geelong Board and get in contact with some of the know all w***ers that think they know better than the people that are getting paid the big bucks to control the team on match days.
These posters with such tremendous knowledge of the modern game could surely deliver the flag we deserve.

yep bingo, although this isn't a dig at HBK, but the feeling is coming from other posters

 

[catempire]

This thread says so much about Geelong supporters.
Nine in a row is just not good enough.
Lets NOT give Bomber the credit for the teams' current success.
However, as head coach he MUST take the blame for ALL the failed moves.
Of the hundreds of strategic/tactical moves made so far this year, lets discuss the ones that HAVEN'T work and shitcan the coach.
Surely Costa, Cook and Balmey should trawl through the BF Geelong Board and get in contact with some of the know all w***ers that think they know better than the people that are getting paid the big bucks to control the team on match days.
These posters with such tremendous knowledge of the modern game could surely deliver the flag we deserve.

I think this has totally missed the point.

This was one small criticism of one coaching move. No one called for a sacking over it. No one purported that it would be disasterous to our premiership hopes. No one said it was reason to not give credit for Thompson getting the side to where it is.

Being where we are does not make everyone at the club immune from criticism. This was a mistake, it was duly pointed out and that's that. No more, no less.

Credit where credit's due and criticism where criticism's due. That's fair, isn't it?