Over reaction

[Mattdougie]

The negative reaction to the loss on Saturday on here has been absolutely ridiculous.

Anyone with eyes could see the boys ran out of legs thru a combination of last week in the wet, young bodies and 2 in the bench.

The positive is we got up by 55 points when we were going and the saints had no answer to it. On an even day with same preparations we blow them away and no one says a word.

I think the start to the year has many living in a fantasy we are a finals team.

With the age of the group and the manic style of footy they play there is NO doubt we will fall away second half of the year but we have shown we have the blocks to build on and it will still take time.

We are a bottom 6-8 team still, we are carrying several blokes that arnt up to it and have no ruckman.

We should all simply enjoy the ride this year wherever it takes us and not get carried away and start flapping about finals or any other rubbish

Some people think I go over the top but some of the commebts here have been God damn ridiculous

 

[VitalDread]

But MD this is bigfooty
it even happens on wins

 

[Mattdougie]

But MD this is bigfooty
it even happens on wins

True mate but people are carrying in like we are flag favs and lost to a bottom team

We are a bottom team and lost to another one (although there were reasons)

 

[lachy]

The negative reaction to the loss on Saturday on here has been absolutely ridiculous.

Anyone with eyes could see the boys ran out of legs thru a combination of last week in the wet, young bodies and 2 in the bench.

The positive is we got up by 55 points when we were going and the saints had no answer to it. On an even day with same preparations we blow them away and no one says a word.

I think the start to the year has many living in a fantasy we are a finals team.

With the age of the group and the manic style of footy they play there is NO doubt we will fall away second half of the year but we have shown we have the blocks to build on and it will still take time.

We are a bottom 6-8 team still, we are carrying several blokes that arnt up to it and have no ruckman.

We should all simply enjoy the ride this year wherever it takes us and not get carried away and start flapping about finals or any other rubbish

Some people think I go over the top but some of the commebts here have been God damn ridiculous

Agree entirely with the over reaction to the loss. By all reports ran out of legs.

Disagree entirely with where we are as a group. Outside the top 4 all have serious weaknesses and making the finals is not out of the question as we will win between 10 to 12 in the year providing a reasonable run with injuries

 

[Morris Major]

True mate but people are carrying in like we are flag favs and lost to a bottom team

We are a bottom team and lost to another one (although there were reasons)

I wish there's more consistency with how we label ourselves. A week ago very few of us would say we're a 'bottom' team.

On the one hand we want to be recognised as a serious team that can make finals ('if you're good enough you're old enough), yet after a loss like this all of a sudden we're just another emerging team with a very young list? IMO the truth is somewhere between the two, but it seems like most of the talk is at either extreme depending on results.

 

[Mattdougie]

I wish there's more consistency with how we label ourselves. A week ago very few of us would say we're a 'bottom' team.

On the one hand we want to be recognised as a serious team that can make finals ('if you're good enough you're old enough), yet after a loss like this all of a sudden we're just another emerging team with a very young list? IMO the truth is somewhere between the two, but it seems like most of the talk is at either extreme depending on results.

We are a bottom 6-8 team and we are at the top of that group but we arnt a finals team yet and the only people who genuinely belive that are being unrealistic.

People are penning wins in we are 50/50 in.

Always struggle against Saints Blues and demons

Won't beat Freo

GWS beat the Hawks and we didn't get close so what does that mean?

All in saying is we all need to chill and accept that even by miracle we slide into the finals we arnt ready for it and will likely get smashed BUT every step is a win and that's what we need to be happy about

 

[Dav1d]

Who are you
& what have you done with our mattdougie?

 

[Unorth]

Wide spread expectations for this team before the season? We were going to get a good pick. Probably in the top 3. We'd gone backwards by trading away experience and suffering through some other...turbulence.

Expectations five rounds in? 'Finals? Top 4 even?'

The fact that we got to this stage shows that, hey, even if we don't make finals and finish 9th/10th/11th...That's still far better than what most people expected. A typical problem with young but undoubtedly talented teams, in a few sports, is that they can take scalps (eg Sydney) but can still lose to other teams lower down on the ladder (eg St Kilda) due to a variety of reasons (inexperience, injuries, perhaps even some arrogance). The Dogs aren't the first young team to have these sorts of results and won't be the last. This one loss is not all that significant. We're in the conversation for a top 8 finish, and we have one of the youngest lists in the AFL (youngest?). Whatever happens throughout the rest of the season, just remember we've had some huuuuuuge injuries, yet have shown that when the team plays at its best, they can match it with the best.

This season is more a launching pad for next. Let's be real...A team is not in true contention with Libba sidelined and Cordy as the #1 ruck. When we get Libba back, some of the young players have one more preseason, the list has some tweaks (Carlisle perhaps and definitely a ruck), the team being motivated to consistently play at its best knowing they can beat the likes of Sydney, and even as Bevo himself gets more experience....This is when this team will be truly ready. So just enjoy the ups and downs of the (injury riddled) season we'll have. In the scheme of things, it's going to be an important one.

 

[bresker]

We only lost because Lin Jong wasn't in the side, we'll be fine when he's back, eh?

 

[theAthenian]

This loss raises an interesting point:

Our great game is so riddled with over regulation that there are match day results that are now being corrupted by the AFL's absurd interchange and sub rules which effectively allow teams to win because the other team cant put a team on the park during the actual game if there are injuries.
You can have 130 or so rotations in a game across two teams - 260 different player lists combinations playing(in theory) in one game
Surely u can have an extended bench of 2 or 3 players who sub in if there is a game ending injury (and thus allowing for both teams to complete their legal rotations). Its easy to police - if u do "medical vest" a player and the emergency jumps up, that injured player cant play for the next 2 matches nomatter the injury.

Im dissapointed by the loss of clay, the loss of 4 points, the loss of momentum

However im buoyant because the list is solid (had a hardon when Tboyd took his second mark)
and because

we have won 4 games against football teams
and lost 2 games against injuries in 2015
against football teams we are still undefeated

 

[Floridog]

This is where living half way around the world has its advatages. I can watch the replay of the first half and pretend the second half doesn't exist and there's nobody around here that follows footy to bring me back to reality. Now, getting back to reality, the second half was very disappointing. We were on a roll and we were all enjoying that, it would have been nice to ride that wave a little further. And I hope this game does not shake our mobs confidence in the game style we've been playing. I don't expect a victory next week but I will be disappointed if the Doggies don't come out with the same effort that they've had so far this year.

 

[Mattdougie]

Who are you
& what have you done with our mattdougie?

I'm the one and only my friend.

The rest are only sad imitations

 

[dogwatch]

This loss raises an interesting point:

Our great game is so riddled with over regulation that there are match day results that are now being corrupted by the AFL's absurd interchange and sub rules which effectively allow teams to win because the other team cant put a team on the park during the actual game if there are injuries.
You can have 130 or so rotations in a game across two teams - 260 different player lists combinations playing(in theory) in one game
Surely u can have an extended bench of 2 or 3 players who sub in if there is a game ending injury (and thus allowing for both teams to complete their legal rotations). Its easy to police - if u do "medical vest" a player and the emergency jumps up, that injured player cant play for the next 2 matches nomatter the injury.

Im dissapointed by the loss of clay, the loss of 4 points, the loss of momentum

However im buoyant because the list is solid (had a hardon when Tboyd took his second mark)
and because

we have won 4 games against football teams
and lost 2 games against injuries in 2015
against football teams we are still undefeated

Very interesting point.
I get jumped on when I say that we should have 2 subs and 2 interchange. It seems everybody wants to get rid of subs.

However I reckon if we had 2 subs/2 interchange (or 3 and 1?) we would have won that match. St Kilda wouldn't have had the interchange advantage and we would have had a fit player to replace Stevens... and maybe even one for Stringer. The interchange rule is the one that is corrupting the sport IMO. I can understand why coaches were demanding it and will continue to press for 4 interchange players and unlimited changes but I question that it's in the best interest of the players, the fans or the game as a spectacle.

When Bob Murphy walked off the SCG and said "how can you not get emotional about football?" he was reflecting on a battle of wills and young men doing heroic things under great pressure. We were fascinated as we watched how they dealt with conditions and fatigue. It was gripping stuff. People were saying it was the match of the year so far. This is the sort of stuff you will see more of if interchanges are further restricted ... or even eliminated. The players get their instructions but once they are out on the field it's all down to them. None of the clinical string-pulling stuff from the sidelines that you see in gridiron where a whole new team steps onto the ground depending on the phase of play. This is much more romantic where players are called upon to be resourceful and find reserves within themselves rather than wave to the bench for a breather and a chat on the phone.

And in doing this you can cover for more injured players with 2-3 subs. There's no need to police it. Coaches can still pull "tactical" substitutions but it's at their own risk. Generally it won't be until the second half anyway and it will be irreversible - once the player has the red vest he can't come back on.

 

[paul scholes]

Just Wow!
Did MD start this thread?
I've just picked my arseup of the floor!!
He's bang on ! We have to show more poise under pressure, and take the air out of the game .
Two players over 100 games doesn't help that situation .
The seeds have been planted , and it's going to be good times following our club for a long period .

 

[fronkalicious]

First half was outstanding. I'm not one for making excuses, but we were gone in the second half for all the reasons MD outlined. It was so so obvious. It just became an exercise in whether the saints would run out of time or not. Ever seen a marathon runner hit the wall?? Well that was us.

We're so far advanced on where I thought we'd be. I enjoyed the game on the weekend and it was another step forward IMO.

Consider the experience the saints had:

Roo
Montagna
Armitage
Steven
Fisher
Schneider
Dempster
Geary
Delaney

That's 9 highly experienced, mature afl footballers. We had murph, Picken, wood and Crameri.

Keep at it dogs. Im loving it.

 

[Martyn_30_]

Being beaten by the 5th largest comeback in vfl/afl history is a terrible result regardless of how tired anyone is. It's more mental than physical with a young team. Physically teams are feeling their worst during the finals but they produce the highest gps numbers for the year due to the psychological impact. If these players are in a similar position in the future I'm sure they won't let something like Saturday happen again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Senor Ed]

The negative reaction to the loss on Saturday on here has been absolutely ridiculous.

Anyone with eyes could see the boys ran out of legs thru a combination of last week in the wet, young bodies and 2 in the bench.

The positive is we got up by 55 points when we were going and the saints had no answer to it. On an even day with same preparations we blow them away and no one says a word.

I think the start to the year has many living in a fantasy we are a finals team.

With the age of the group and the manic style of footy they play there is NO doubt we will fall away second half of the year but we have shown we have the blocks to build on and it will still take time.

We are a bottom 6-8 team still, we are carrying several blokes that arnt up to it and have no ruckman.

We should all simply enjoy the ride this year wherever it takes us and not get carried away and start flapping about finals or any other rubbish

Some people think I go over the top but some of the commebts here have been God damn ridiculous

Probably the only time i have ever agreed with you.

GO DOGS!

 

[Bodicifer]

I think we need to sack the coach and sack the waterboys, replace the senior side with the VFL side and then sack the boot studder as well for good measure. As for the receptionist at the Whitten Oval, she needs to go too.

 

[stefoid]

Cant help but think had we had a couple of old wise heads out there in the midfield and forward line like Guido, that we would have managed to ease off on the pedal without being overrun.

Its all great being a young team and all, but our on-field leadership is being left to too few, and is concentrated mostly in the backline even when Morris and Boyd take the field.

Picken, Dickson and Crameri have played really well this year, but they need to add that 'senior leadership' string to their bows as well.

Wallis will be a welcome addition back in that regard as well, since he is basically one of the senior players now that he is all of 23yo.

 

[dogwatch]

First half was outstanding. I'm not one for making excuses, but we were gone in the second half for all the reasons MD outlined. It was so so obvious. It just became an exercise in whether the saints would run out of time or not. Ever seen a marathon runner hit the wall?? Well that was us.

Absolutely. Further evidence is that the only time we looked like giving a yelp was in the first 5 minutes of the last quarter after we'd had a brief rest for 3/4 time. But we had spent too long in the red zone by then and quickly ran out of legs again. We hardly ever looked like scoring after that.

 

[Yojimbo]

Over reaction, reality check, eye opener which ever term
you are drawn to this weekend has shown that when the
stars align or you have the perfect storm anything can
happen.

Bevo has brought a game style that stands up because
the contributions of the group are more valued than the
contributions of individuals. I actually thought St Kilda
would win by more and deliberately did not post in the
banter thread for that very reason.

If you take the rose colored glasses off and actually
examine the list clinically it becomes apparent that
with some bad luck or injuries it drops away very fast.
Saying that we are a top eight side this year with all
the chess pieces on the board, but if you tip that
board slightly the pieces fall off and cannot be readily
replaced.

Keeping with the chess flavored rant it would help if
we didn't draft as many pawns and took a few
bishops or rooks even a horse or two.

 

[LondonBulldog]

A bit more experience in the players and the coaches box and we would never have lost that one.

Stevens left on in the 3rd quarter when clearly injured was a mistake. Loose man in defense for the last 20 minutes of the game.

 

[Mofra]

It's blatantly clear we've spent all summer working on plan A, and with the late start to Bevo's tenure he's either been unable or unwilling to work on Plan B.
When things aren't going well, as a coach you only have two options - change players, or change the pace of the game.

I expect next pre-season we work on plan B, changing the tempo.

I'm disappointed at the result because Boyd & Murph should have been able to direct the players to slow the game down however in the long term scheme of things we will learn the required tempo plans to avoid a similar mistake in coming seasons.

In any case, throw just one of Libba, Wallis or Jong into that side and we would have won.

 

[Tommycash]

I've burnt my membership!

 

[_Mike_]

Both MD and theAthenian raise valid points

We've a long way to go yet and the list still needs work/tweaking. We will get there and when we do, it will be worth the extra wait