Autopsy Overrated midfield?

[Count Dooku]

Was 2012 an aberration? Were we overrated on a hot form streak? Were our hard running two way midfielders burnt out compensating for forward and back injuries in 2013? Were Jude and Goodesy more critical than we realised? Or is it just a temporary form slump compounded by opposition better mitigating our strengths. Do we have a method problem due to a poorly constructed game plan? Be interested to hear others' theories as to why our once dominant midfield has served as witches hats for our opposition so far this year (including preseason and the latter part of 2013).

 

[Sanecow]

Were Jude and Goodesy more critical than we realised?

I certainly think there is a bit of this.

 

[Punts]

Yep , if there not prepared to run both ways which separated them from others then that's it because they are not a skill fill midfield.

 

[Superstar swan]

I really gunk we are in a form slump. We have class on every line, it's just a matter of time before everything clicks , I just hope it doesn't take us too long.

We will beat the crows and it will be game that everyone will see the swans are back!!!

 

[baja]

I think our mids were much better on the w'end I am surprised at the timing of this thread.
Heres just a few stats.
We won the hitouts and I was surprised with Derickz he did better than I thought although his hitouts 20 mostly went to the opposition giving them first use, in fact only 5% to our adv..
We won the clearances 44-37, we pretty much broke even on the contested footy 141-146 we definitely tried to control the ball much more this week we won the uncontested ball count 220-200 and had more possessions overall 371-352 yet no one broke 30 it was shared all round, Swan only got 16 disposals whens the last time that happened? How was Pendles allowed so much time and space, 11 inside 50's. Labamba 13 first quarter possessions not good enough by us.
Our mids aren't overrated they just need to click its been a slow start but they are building on it they do need to be more accountable but so does everyone else on the ground we give too much space.

 

[grimlock]

I think our mids were much better on the w'end I am surprised at the timing of this thread.
Heres just a few stats.
We won the hitouts and I was surprised with Derickz he did better than I thought although his hitouts 20 mostly went to the opposition giving them first use, in fact only 5% to our adv..
We won the clearances 44-37, we pretty much broke even on the contested footy 141-146 we definitely tried to control the ball much more this week we won the uncontested ball count 220-200 and had more possessions overall 371-352 yet no one broke 30 it was shared all round, Swan only got 16 disposals whens the last time that happened? How was Pendles allowed so much time and space, 11 inside 50's. Labamba 13 first quarter possessions not good enough by us.
Our mids aren't overrated they just need to click its been a slow start but they are building on it they do need to be more accountable but so does everyone else on the ground we give too much space.

What was the inside fifty count?

 

[baja]

What was the inside fifty count?

Swans 50 Pies 50, both also had 10 marks inside 50, the Pies had a higher goal conversion, Swans 20% Pies 24%

A question I have, interchange Swans 129 Pies 122 isn't it capped at 120?

 

[replicant]

Swans 50 Pies 50, both also had 10 marks inside 50, the Pies had a higher goal conversion, Swans 20% Pies 24%

A question I have, interchange Swans 129 Pies 122 isn't it capped at 120?

You can change players at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 time, and also use the sub. Maximum is really 130 (3 at each break and one sub).

 

[The King!]

maybe the success we have had has come at a price in that it ran players like jude, goodes, okeefe, shaw, even mcveigh and some younger guys into the ground they cant go as much as they used to.

We haven't managed player useage as well as the hawks and cats for instance

 

[baja]

You can change players at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 time, and also use the sub. Maximum is really 130 (3 at each break and one sub).

Ok thanks for that, I knew that but thought the changes at the break weren't counted at all.

 

[replicant]

Ok thanks for that, I knew that but thought the changes at the break weren't counted at all.

By the way, where do you get your stats? I can never find anything that comprehensive, and i'd like to do more analysis.

 

[baja]

By the way, where do you get your stats? I can never find anything that comprehensive, and i'd like to do more analysis.

Newspaper, Melbourne Herald Sun (the actual paper not online)

 

[replicant]

Newspaper, Melbourne Herald Sun (the actual paper not online)

Hmm... hard to get hold of that in Taranaki. Oh well.

 

[baja]

Hmm... hard to get hold of that in Taranaki. Oh well.

Yeah thought that might have been the case.

 

[grimlock]

I'm sure baja wouldn't mind typing it all up every week just for you

 

[baja]

I'm sure baja wouldn't mind typing it all up every week just for you

Then I wouldn't be able to sound smart n stuff

 

[grimlock]

Then I wouldn't be able to sound smart n stuff

If it helps, that wouldn't affect my judgment of you at all.

 

[baja]

If it helps, that wouldn't affect my judgment of you at all.

lol, you still didn't answer my question in the Ressies thread. Did Sammy Naismith (in your bests again this week) did he play first ruck to Nankervis who lined up at full forward and didn't kick a goal?

 

[grimlock]

lol, you still didn't answer my question in the Ressies thread. Did Sammy Naismith (in your bests again this week) did he play first ruck to Nankervis who lined up at full forward and didn't kick a goal?

I didn't watch it, it's the Swans official bests.

 

[RW]

Hmm... hard to get hold of that in Taranaki. Oh well.

Note to self: teach baja how to use a scanner.

Back on topic, I thought our mids were better too but I found it a little worrying that Buckley only rated Collingwood's performance as about a "5 or 6" out of 10. Not sure where that leaves us. Felt we should have done more with the possession we had in the first half. Maybe you're right about the team not clicking.

EDIT: Added source for the quote from Buckley. http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2014-03-29/swans-fade-against-pies

 

[swansfan51]

Back on topic, I thought our mids were better too but I found it a little worrying that Buckley only rated Collingwood's performance as about a "5 or 6" out of 10. Not sure where that leaves us.

Great pickup RW. People often discuss a performance without considering the quality of the opposition and/or their play. Collingwood were not that good on Saturday, but we were worse. A viewing of the Hawthorn vs drug cheats game would show a much higher level of play than what Collingwood delivered against us. This also applies when we beat an Adelaide side this weekend that is already not very good and is missing at least 6 best 22 players. If we play very well while doing it then fantastic, but just winning on its own does not prove anything.

 

[melbournehammer]

Great pickup RW. People often discuss a performance without considering the quality of the opposition and/or their play. Collingwood were not that good on Saturday, but we were worse. A viewing of the Hawthorn vs drug cheats game would show a much higher level of play than what Collingwood delivered against us. This also applies when we beat an Adelaide side this weekend that is already not very good and is missing at least 6 best 22 players. If we play very well while doing it then fantastic, but just winning on its own does not prove anything.

on the other hand a loss means we are seriously stuffed.

i thought collingwood were amongst the worst performed sides on the weekend. the essendon hawthorn game, port-adelaide even the richmond blues game was seriously light years ahead of ours. our game ranked with the dogs north and sts gws in terms of quality.

 

[Syd]

....Were Jude and Goodesy more critical than we realised?....

A part of me knew that missing Bolts would be far more detrimental over the short term than if O'Keefe had retired instead.
When the game is on the line, and you need a real hard nut to go in and get the pill that's where we miss him the most ATM.

I also think people in general are underrating the loss of Mumford. I'm an unabashed Pyke fan but an injury interrupted preseason has meant he's in less than ideal nick and you only need to re-watch (I wont mind you) Round 1 to see the type of impact that his physical presence adds to the midfield group.

So given a bit more match fitness, and someone stepping up alongside JPK on the inside and we'll be fine.

Hopefully this all presents itself within the next 5 days.....

 

[Tedeski]

I'm going to give our team the benefit of the doubt here & be a little generous with my thoughts on where we are at.
Last year ended with us running out of legs due to injuries etc.
This year has commenced 2 weeks early and many of our key players started playing games late & we've always been off our best form in the early rounds but just got away with it in the recent past. We have a policy where we don't play all our full team in the pre season games. One thing I noticed with the other teams that seem to be flying at the moment is that they played their full strength teams in these practice matches. The Hawks team that played Essendon the other night looked less experienced then the one that played in all the pre season games & I watched them closely. Same with West Coast, Port, Freo (in the last practice game), Richmond, Collingwood etc.

The Swans never had a settled lineup, perhaps due to having to experiment with the ruckmen.
These are the players that were underdone going into round 1 either due to missing big chunks of 2013 or pre season injuries.
LRT, Shaw, Pyke, Jetta, Reid, Mitchell & Rohan.
All these players have played one or both of our opening games.
They couldn't possibly have been at their peak fitness for these contests.
The score board backs this up. In both games scoring shots against in the final 5 mins of the third & in the last Qs were nearly the same as scoring shots for the first bulk of the match. A huge discrepancy.
This suggests our fitness is not there yet.
The loss to GWS came about from arrogance from the coaches where they chose to play underdone players that should have been coming back through the seconds until their fitness is at a required level. We also went with LRT as back up ruckman which was & always has been a fail.
This was done purely to find a role in the team for a well loved player.
Gary Rohan quite obviously can't play out games as he is still recovering from that horrific leg break.
Does Gaz not have "Super Sub" written all over him?
Geez Horse! Problem solved for 2014. Gary Rohan is our super sub for the whole year because he can't last out games & can be devestating in one Q of football when every other player is dragging their feet. Craig Bird is fit & has smarts.. Slow as treacle, but he makes up for it some what with his good skills.
What impact is Bird going to have as a sub?

Bird should start games in the middle. We recruited him as a in & under ball magnet as a youngster & he began his senior football in the same manner.
Same with Mitchell. Now here's the problem. There's no room for ROK because he is the same but a little slower as he's aged.
Yep! Fifth in our best & fairest last year but guess what? It happens overnight. If he can't play as a 2 or 3 goal a game marking forward that can lock the ball in, then there is no spot for him in the team. McGlynn's best role is as a small crumbing forward that doesn't let the ball out of our forward line.

We matched them or beat them in every area other then the score board. So in fact we played much better than in Rd 1.
We just played unfit players or players out of form just based on their reputation. Pyke is the only one that we had to risk playing under done.
We have replacements for Shaw,ROK, Rohan, LRT etc.
Shaw needed to play 3 or 4 games in the two's. Just like most other top teams would have their players do. I love Shaw but he ain't Hodge, Judd, Ablett or Goodes. They would be the only players I'd bring straight into the seniors because of their class.
Other than Goodes, we don't have anyone on our list that deserves those priviledges.

That'll do me for now!

 

[stevierayswan]

A part of me knew that missing Bolts would be far more detrimental over the short term than if O'Keefe had retired instead.
When the game is on the line, and you need a real hard nut to go in and get the pill that's where we miss him the most ATM.

I also think people in general are underrating the loss of Mumford. I'm an unabashed Pyke fan but an injury interrupted preseason has meant he's in less than ideal nick and you only need to re-watch (I wont mind you) Round 1 to see the type of impact that his physical presence adds to the midfield group.

So given a bit more match fitness, and someone stepping up alongside JPK on the inside and we'll be fine.

Hopefully this all presents itself within the next 5 days.....

you make it sound easy