Owners

[TooUglyForFugly]

Anyone buying shares let me know what ends up happening - would be good to get into for a laugh!

#hydeforprem

Guess that will be me.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Not sure if we have many environmentalists on the board but thought it might be worth giving my supported non league side - Forest Green Rovers a plug, the "greenest club on the planet".

We're owned by Dale Vince - an environmentalist who founded and owns a green energy company called Ecotricity (apparently valued at around $100m pounds).

Before Vince came in, the club was struggling financially and in danger of administration (I think we are also the longest serving tenants in the Conference too just completing our 17th season in the division - we actually have been relegated twice but got a reprieve with other teams in those years going into administration). He went to a preseason game and saw a local club and employer struggling and decided to step in. He also saw an opportunity to tap into the relatively untapped area of making football clubs more environmentally friendly organisations.

Since then, he's both improved the overall quality of the club (going from semi pro to professional) and tried to use it as a platform to help promote the message he is building the club around - sustainability, affordability and healthy living. His overall goal is to try and get the club to the Championship (obviously playing at a higher level gives the club a better platform to broadcast its message).

The most controversial thing he's down is changed the club's home colours (from black and white stripes to green). In another interesting decision, they've removed all meat and sugary snacks from the menu for 'healthier' alternatives.

Some of the environmental initiatives introduced include:

• Completely organic and chemically free pitch.
• Solar panels on top of the stadium.
• Providing club staff and players the use of electric cars - as well as encouraging fans to attend games via electric cars by offering them the incentive of recharge facilities at the ground.
• Installed a rainwater harvesting system and tank so water from rain could be used to water the pitch.
• A solar powered, autonomous robot mower (called MoBot) that cuts the grass and recharges itself without any supervision needed.
• Club facilities are decorated with organic paint and recycled carpet.

Some of the achievements and admirable aspects to date include:

• In 2012 Forest Green became the first football club to earn the European Union’s gold standard for environmental management.
• Qualified for the playoffs for the first time this season after a 5th place finish, the highest ever finish in the club's 126 year history.
• Improved gate figures every season since Vince took over.
  
• Promising to keep home shirts for 2 seasons - so fans don't need to buy a new shirt every season.
• Improved the stadium and facilities to (according to our manager Adrian Pennock) a level that is better than some League One and Two sides.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Maybe I should go looking for the april fools joke from last year.
Our pitch apparently glows green in the dark

 

[Redalert]

Not sure if we have many environmentalists on the board but thought it might be worth giving my supported non league side - Forest Green Rovers a plug, the "greenest club on the planet".

We're owned by Dale Vince - an environmentalist who founded and owns a green energy company called Ecotricity (apparently valued at around $100m pounds).

Before Vince came in, the club was struggling financially and in danger of administration (I think we are also the longest serving tenants in the Conference too just completing our 17th season in the division - we actually have been relegated twice but got a reprieve with other teams in those years going into administration). He went to a preseason game and saw a local club and employer struggling and decided to step in. He also saw an opportunity to tap into the relatively untapped area of making football clubs more environmentally friendly organisations.

Since then, he's both improved the overall quality of the club (going from semi pro to professional) and tried to use it as a platform to help promote the message he is building the club around - sustainability, affordability and healthy living. His overall goal is to try and get the club to the Championship (obviously playing at a higher level gives the club a better platform to broadcast its message).

The most controversial thing he's down is changed the club's home colours (from black and white stripes to green). In another interesting decision, they've removed all meat and sugary snacks from the menu for 'healthier' alternatives.

Some of the environmental initiatives introduced include:

• Completely organic and chemically free pitch.
• Solar panels on top of the stadium.
• Providing club staff and players the use of electric cars - as well as encouraging fans to attend games via electric cars by offering them the incentive of recharge facilities at the ground.
• Installed a rainwater harvesting system and tank so water from rain could be used to water the pitch.
• A solar powered, autonomous robot mower (called MoBot) that cuts the grass and recharges itself without any supervision needed.
• Club facilities are decorated with organic paint and recycled carpet.

Some of the achievements and admirable aspects to date include:

• In 2012 Forest Green became the first football club to earn the European Union’s gold standard for environmental management.
• Qualified for the playoffs for the first time this season after a 5th place finish, the highest ever finish in the club's 126 year history.
• Improved gate figures every season since Vince took over.
  
• Promising to keep home shirts for 2 seasons - so fans don't need to buy a new shirt every season.
• Improved the stadium and facilities to (according to our manager Adrian Pennock) a level that is better than some League One and Two sides.

It all sounds great except for changing the club's home strip, I kind of feel that undermines a club's history and its supporters. Any word on how the Forest Green fans reacted?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Maybe I should go looking for the april fools joke from last year.
Our pitch apparently glows green in the dark

Maybe FIFA should be considering it for the 2022 WC - guessing playing at night would help alleviate the temperature concerns.

They've already got glow in the dark pitches, balls and boots after all!

It all sounds great except for changing the club's home strip, I kind of feel that undermines a club's history and its supporters. Any word on how the Forest Green fans reacted?

I think it cause a bit of a stir understandably - I mean changing from black and white vertical stripes for bright green? Seems like a downgrade.

I think the club were pretty good with it - our away strips are generally black and white striped kits so it at least keeps that connection with the club's history in that sense. Given the club was in a pretty bad way financially and Vince came in and helped save it - as well as pumping in a lot of money and resources to upgrade the derelict facilities, stadium and generally try and raise the club's profile - I think most fans weren't too bothered. He's got an interesting and exciting vision for the club which seems to indicate a bright future for a club that traditionally struggled season to season to remain in the Conference.

If I recall reading the FGR forums at the time, I think more people were upset that they wouldn't be able to order meat pies or chips at the home games anymore!

 

[moomba]

No meat pies.

Evil.

 

[SM]

Allam claims to have rejected bids to buy us because he wants to find us a good home and isn't just out to make a quid. What a top bloke.

 

[Horts]

Nobody else even comes close to having an owner as bad as ours, the bloke is bat shit insane and gets worse and worse each day..

Leeds will never go anywhere under this clown. Will be lucky to even stay up next season. Sick of it.

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

Nobody else even comes close to having an owner as bad as ours, the bloke is bat shit insane and gets worse and worse each day..

Leeds will never go anywhere under this clown. Will be lucky to even stay up next season. Sick of it.

Blackpool, shirley.

 

[Horts]

Blackpool, shirley.

Yeah ok I'll give you that, our muppet isn't far behind though.

And Don't call me Shirley.

 

[SM]

Yeah ok I'll give you that, our muppet isn't far behind though.

And Don't call me Shirley.

What's happening with the Red Bull takeover?

 

[Horts]

What's happening with the Red Bull takeover?

Nothing.

Cellino's back from his ban and held a pointless shambles of press conference yesterday and said the club is not for sale, also quoted in saying he believes the team will be in the Premier League in 2 seasons time, and if it's not, he'll sell. Also since he has been back at the club he said he hasn't spoken a word to Neil Redfearn about his position next year.

Promotion in two years? Lol.
We'll be lucky to be in the Championship.

This club kills me.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

For a season well done, the owners are shouting out a beer to all adult ticket holders (home only): http://www.lcfc.com/news/article/the-beers-are-on-vichai-top-2464314.aspx

Between supplying the clappers, the free t-shirts against Burnley and Sunderland, as well as the free breakfast and 5 pound vouchers, our owners have really put in an excellent effort for the fans. I couldn't be more pleased with the owners we have.


I'm sure you guys have some good stories about owners treating the fans, I think we need a little more owner positivity in here.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Fryer Tuck - think it was you that mentioned you wanted to share something about MK Dons in a different thread? Something about being the second least popular club in the UK I think you said? Interested in reading about that (assuming I'm recalling the right poster and not going crazy!)

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Fryer Tuck - think it was you that mentioned you wanted to share something about MK Dons in a different thread? Something about being the second least popular club in the UK I think you said? Interested in reading about that (assuming I'm recalling the right poster and not going crazy!)

Yeah, that was me. For a second there, I thought it was being forgotten about, lol.

It's an interesting story in more ways than one actually. We all know about how relocation is very heavily frowned upon in England, since these clubs are the lifeblood of communities, not merely franchises.

I thought I would try something on Milton Keynes, and try to, well, see it from the owner's point of view. Their strategy is a rather interesting one.

I've gotten it half done, just to see how it would go. I could knock up the rest of it, just for fun. Just to 'congratulate' the club for their promotion to the Championship.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Yeah, that was me. For a second there, I thought it was being forgotten about, lol.

It's an interesting story in more ways than one actually. We all know about how relocation is very heavily frowned upon in England, since these clubs are the lifeblood of communities, not merely franchises.

I thought I would try something on Milton Keynes, and try to, well, see it from the owner's point of view. Their strategy is a rather interesting one.

I've gotten it half done, just to see how it would go. I could knock up the rest of it, just for fun. Just to 'congratulate' the club for their promotion to the Championship.

Good to know the Toon situation hasn't melted my brain...yet!

Sorry mate, didn't want to rush you - just remembered it when I came into the thread again. Take your time, always enjoy reading them.

The club was born from the ashes of Wimbeldon weren't they (or was that AFC Wimbeldon)? I think there is a history/link between the 2 but not exactly sure what. Hopefully your post will cover that!

 

[iluvparis]

The owners basically just shipped up and moved Wimbledon to Milton Keyenes (about 80km away).

AFC Wimbledon is a new club (FCUM style) that the unsurprisingly disgruntled fans started from scratch.

It would be like Cashley trying to move Newcastle to Carlisle.

 

[CURVE]

The owners basically just shipped up and moved Wimbledon to Milton Keyenes (about 80km away).

AFC Wimbledon is a new club (FCUM style) that the unsurprisingly disgruntled fans started from scratch.

It would be like Cashley trying to move Newcastle to Carlisle.

Carlisle wouldn't want an third rate football club like Newcastle, we already have a second rate football club of our own.

Which maybe why current Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley is rumoured to be the billionaire trying to take over Carlisle United.

Carlisle United>>>>Newcastle United.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Carlisle wouldn't want an third rate football club like Newcastle, we already have a rate football club of our own.

Which maybe why current Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley is rumoured to be the billionaire trying to take over Carlisle United.

Carlisle United>>>>Newcastle United.

Perhaps with Ashley facing challenges with trying to get Rangers DEVO, he's looking for another 'blue' club that Sports Direct can get its paws into.

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Stories of owners and their clubs, eh? Why don’t we do a certain little example now that they've been promoted? A piece that focuses on the town and the owners’ perspective concerning football. Which means there are certain juicy bits that won't be further explored, but hopefully there are other bits that would be just as good.


It's a common question, and since it is exactly 13 years to the day, why don't we take a look at this? Hopefully it will be enlightening if you haven't seen it in much detail before.


Please forgive me for the very lame intro.





Milton Keynes: Is Don, Is Good?

Is wanting pro football club, but in a more convenience? Is working to relocate club to shiny new stadium for community pleasure! Is cut from Wimbledon Fresh!

MK fans make it known full well to AFC Wimbledon fans that they will be donning the name with pride.

Milton Keynes Dons. One of the most hated teams in the English Pyramid. Worse than Leeds, but maybe not as much as Milwall.

We’re all familiar with this story, the tale of an owner moving his club from the confines of Wimbledon in the Merton Borough, the bastion of tennis tradition, to the town of Milton Keynes in Buckinghamshire, home to the Jaguar Racing Team, which of course became the Red Bull Racing Team later on, and a dominant force.

A mixture of fans showing their support for Wimbledon FC fans. I prefer Fans City myself.

Relocation may be considered somewhat normal in the US, but in the UK, it is one of the biggest sins for an owner to commit, up there with changing the shirt of the club, or even the name. Wimbledon’s team has been there since 1889, and as expected, it met with plenty of backlash, to a point where AFC Wimbledon was created by the fans that no longer identified with the club, as the ‘true’ successor to Wimbledon FC, and opposition fans would boycott MK Dons matches in protest.

So, why would the owner make such a decision to take a borough’s livelihood elsewhere? To answer that question, we must actually take a look at the town itself.

Milton Keynes in 1967.

Milton Keynes is actually a relatively new town. Originally a village known as Middleton de Keynes, (I think you can see how it got its current name), the land around it was set up as a new town in 1967 as part of the government policy to house people from Greater London to newly made communities known as the London Overspill.

Promotion campaigns to move people to communities outside of London. This was quite common in the period between WWII and the 1970s.

Of course, there was no football club representing the new town at the time. So what did they do? First, they tried to tempt Charlton to come on over, recently relegated to the third tier in the 72/73 season, losing 46% of their attendance from previous year to have an average of 5,600, with the local council and owners at odds about future developments. The relocation never happened. (There’s more on that story, but perhaps another time).

Then they decided to renamed the club next door. So in 1974, Bletchley Town (founded in 1956) became Milton Keynes City (to be fair, Bletchley is now a part of Milton Keynes), also known as the Gladiators. This team was in the Southern Premier, which was the 5th tier back then. Needless to say, the club was poorly supported. The poor results didn’t help matters either.

MKC Vs Chesham, 1980. The MKC chap tries his best to tackle, but just like the team itself, it wasn't exactly a success.

Believe it or not, it would be 1979 when the first mentions of Wimbledon relocating to Milton Keynes became an idea. Wimbledon were a part of the Football League structure for the first time in 1978, (the Conference came to be in 1979, pushing MKC to the 6th Tier), and the club looked like it was going places (They would eventually reach the top tier in 1986). This was first purposed by Ron Noades, the owner of Wimbledon at the time. To be fair to Noades, he did have a point. If you’ve been to the History topic at some point, you would see stadiums filled to the brim with eager fans, all wanting to get a glimpse of their team in action.

Ken Noades, a prominent figure of South London Football. Former owner of Wimbledon and Crystal Palace.

Just for reference sake; Plough Lane, Wimbledon’s home ground, had its highest ever capacity of 30,000 in the 1930s. Wimbledon’s highest ever attendance was 18,030 in 1935 in an FA Amateur Cup tie. Even at the time of its dissolution, including in the Premier League, that figure was only passed once. To be fair, the ground capacity was only 15,876 by the time they were top tier. Even with the move to Selhurst Park, and after the last expansion to today’s current capacity, the stadium was only 60% full on average, either clear last, or fighting with QPR and Southampton for lowest attendance figures, where both clubs were limited by the capacities of Loftus Road and The Dell respectfully. The club lost 54% of its average attendance once relegation finally hit the club in 2000 after they failed to win on the final day and Bradford won over Liverpool, to a measly average of 7,900 out of a possible 26,255. It has been noted that one of the main reasons why Wimbledon had figures that was double the historic figure was because their tickets were the cheapest, and they were often cited as one of the safest clubs in the country. 

In context to 1979; Wimbledon’s average crowd was around 3,000 to 3,700. 4th tier clubs had an average of 4,200 in 1979. The population of Milton Keynes in 1980 was 150,000 and growing. The population of Merton was around the same, but with a declining population due to the region performing poorly on a commercial level at the time. Milton Keynes was fast becoming an economic centre, with many companies establishing their HQs in the town, like Mercedes-Benz, Yamaha Music, and even BP. Milton Keynes had no FL club to identify the town with, Wimbledon were basically on the opposite side of Fulham and Chelsea, who of course were more established and were bigger clubs than Wimbledon.

Basically; a club that is limited by its lack of potential in growth in its local area, hindered by larger and more popular rivals, and is unlikely to improve no matter what measures are taken to increase attendances, is being tempted by a fast-growing area that is fast becoming a busy hub, with the prime opportunity to a monopoly on the local population and potentially lucrative sponsorship deals? Does that sound familiar?

The roundabouts of Milton Keynes. Anyone that has been to the city would know all about them. Was Noades about to turn off onto a more successful road?

You can see why Noades was tempted by the idea, he thought he could get a bigger crowd in Milton Keynes, and saw the potential of business growth. After all, if he merged Wimbledon with Milton Keynes, surely the fans would get behind their newly established Football League team. The location seemed promising enough, a new town with a fast growing population. Much better than sharing the tight space back down in London. A standalone club would be an excellent business move… right?

 Noades: "I really couldn't see any future in it. I can't actually see that there is a means of drawing large attendances to Milton Keynes."

Well, no. Crowds were still poor, even with the promise of an FL club, and after the club’s most successful season, to the point where nearby Northampton Town, who were starting to struggle (would later go on to record the only time a league game in the Football League has had a crowd of less than 1,000), would still be at a comparable level, even when Wimbledon got promoted (they had the worst average amongst the 3rd tier clubs in 1980).

Noades lost interest in Milton Keynes and sold his share the season after. He would sell Wimbledon to take over Crystal Palace, even entertaining the idea of a merger with Wimbledon, (He did manage to get the club to come over to Selhurst Park in the first place).

The next club that would take an interest was Luton Town. The owners thought it was a great idea. The fans, not so much. So much so that they were boycotting games, holding marches, even flying a plane over the ground, demanding that the club stays in Luton. The Milton Keynes locals feared that the hooligans would run wild if the move went ahead. The vehement opposition meant that the move never went ahead.

Milton Keynes City eventually folded in 1985, after many poor results (the club only won the 79/80 Berks & Bucks Senior Cup (A cup where MK Dons sends their youth team these days) under Noades), and no financial backing.

By now, it has become quite clear that the people of Milton Keynes just can’t get behind a local club. Many of the locals had ties to their previous clubs, and while it is true that the football clubs that represented the town were not from the FL, the attendance figures show that they couldn’t really care about the club. Bear in mind that the Milton Keynes is comparable in size to Hull, Wolverhampton, Stoke, Derby, and Southampton, yet it struggles to get even 2% of its population interested in a single club, even in the lower tiers. There’s just no desire amongst its people to support a local club from the ground up.

The crest of the 2nd MKC. Note the Silver Arrows present.

Even the 2nd incarnation of the club, which was purely local, did nothing to inspire the Cattle. You’ve head of Vauxhall Motors FC, so prepare yourself for Mercedes-Benz FC. Mercedes-Benz’s UK HQ (as well as one of its factories) is located in Milton Keynes. It became MKC the year after, with the goal to win the hearts of the Milton Keynes people. The players were from the MB factory itself, surely that would garner some support? Again, to no avail. The club would fold, but Milton Keynes would still have a club for next season.

New Milton Keynes owner Pete Winkelman. You can already tell what the Womble fans think just by looking at that face.

On the 28th of May, 2002, The FA gave the green light for Pete Winkelman, a major player behind the relocation, and eventually the new chairman, to move the club from Wimbledon to Milton Keynes for the 2004-2005 season. It had been a long round of appeals and protests, but the soon-to-be chairman finally got his wish in the end. He had gone all around the country, looking for suitable clubs that would be willing to move to Milton Keynes. Considering the past history between Wimbledon and possible ideas for relocation and mergers, as well as owners who simply have no idea what football even meant to a fan, he was able to not only successfully convince the owner of such a relocation, but also The FA, who have gone on record to state that the Wimbledon case was an exception to the rule, and by no means should set a precedent of clubs relocating. In an ordinary circumstance. Milton Keynes would've needed to start from the bottom. But due to certain 'influences,' the panel had made its decision to allow MK to take Wimbledon's place.

Owners Røkke and Gjelsten bought the club in 1990 and became co-owners in 2000.

Chairman Charles Koppel wasn't exactly a popular figure. He had never even attended a game of football in his life. Which made it easy to move the club away.

Winkelman: “My priority was to get a Football League club to Milton Keynes because I was trying to build a stadium and that needed football at a certain level.”

Winkelman had put in a lot of effort to move a club to Milton Keynes. He had a grand plan for a brand new stadium and facilities for Milton Keynes, all he needed was a professional club to occupy the ground, and make his dream a reality. The largest grocery shop (at the time) might have played a part, but we're talking about the football here.

The majority of the fans left the club to found the fan owned AFC Wimbledon just two days later, who would start their campaign in the 10th tier next season. Wimbledon FC’s attendance for the 02-03 season was 2,700, the third lowest out of the top 92 in their last season at Selhurst Park, (AFC Wimbledon averaged 3000), before their move to MK the next season, which would still retain the name, but boost the lowest average attendance by far in the 2nd tier as the club not only entered administration, but got relegated to the third tier to start their new life, a division they haven’t played in since 1984.

Dean Lewington, MK's Stevie G. One of two players to be at Wimbledon FC and MK Dons, with more than 500 games to his name, most of those as captain. But is he a heroic one-club player, or the face of a franchise? Then again, he's ginger... 

Now that the club had moved to Milton Keynes, is playing under the MK Dons banner, and even changed their home colours, exactly what was the strategy to make the people of MK get behind the team? They only attracted an average of 4,750 in their first season in the town. Already they were hated by every other club, as the fans of Tottenham, Charlton, and Luton demanded that their clubs cancelled their friendlies. Winkelman still claimed the club’s history, despite the cultural ties being cut from the club (even the Womble mascot wanted nothing to do with the club), in an attempt to tie past, present, and future.

Interestingly enough, the club had to first win over the opposition fans, by acknowledging its actions were in the wrong, and renounce the claim to Wimbledon’s history, from trophies to copyrights. All of this was successfully accomplished in 2007, with the Wimbledon legacy returning to Merton, which meant that not only opposition fans would no longer call for boycotts against the Dons, but it would be an acknowledgement that MK Dons’ history started in 2004, and are a different club to Wimbledon FC.

The Legacy of Wimbledon FC (Wombles included), now resting at Morden Library in Merton. For once something relocating away from Milton Keynes. This move represents the fact that MK Dons is a new club in its own right. Wimbledon FC is dead and buried, its grave can be found here.

The next step was to actually develop its own identity now that the club had acknowledged that its beginnings were in 2004, not 1889. To become a club that isn’t a relocated Wimbledon, but a club that represents Milton Keynes. Out went the Wombles and the Crazy Gang. In came with the references of concrete cows, complicated roundabouts, and that pioneering spirit that has given Milton Keynes its own little reputation as the fastest growing city in the UK. It could also be argued that its biggest rivalry is not that of AFC Wimbledon, but actually Peterborough. A town that Milton already had a rivalry with as a fellow New Town in other sports, but which was quickly developed due to a couple of play-off battles and thrilling matches.

Mooie (Cow) and Donny (Bull), the mascots of Milton Keynes.A tribute to the concrete cows of Milton Keynes. The stand known as the 'Cowshed' should be located to the right of the MK DONS seating.

Finally, there is the future of the club itself. There is fast becoming a generation gap, between the middle aged men who followed the club to Milton Keynes, and still like to claim themselves as the ‘Real Wimbledon,’ and a generation of kids that is being introduced to the club through the community and its many youth programs. The club has been noted to have one of the best youth set ups in the country, and most of its first team graduates are born within the area.  A few of these kids actually have represented England in their age groups, and considering the club has spent most of its time in the 3rd/4th tiers since its rebirth, is an excellent achievement. Season tickets for U18s are only 60 pounds and its 6 pounds for U12s for the 15/16 season in the Championship. This is actually a price freeze from this season, with the 6 pound season ticket increased from U7 to U12. The club is financially sound, and they have an excellent community organisation in the form of MK Dons SET, who promote health, education, and well-being amongst the community.

It is estimated that around 35-40% of the club's season ticket holders are under the age of 18.

Daniel Powell, one of the success stories of the Dons academy. He's been with the club since the relocation as a child. He has played more than 200 games for the club.

They’re an even bigger success on-field in recent times, playing a very attacking and exciting brand of football. They cracked the century this season with a GD of +57, with a highlight of thrashing Oldham 7-0 and Manchester United 4-0 in the FA Cup. Manager Karl Robinson was once the youngest manager out of the Top 92 in 2010, and he’s been a major figure on and off the field to this day to become one of the longest serving managers of the club. His persistence has finally been rewarded with the club reaching the Championship for the first time.

Fans are predicting crowd figures in the Championship are predicted to be around 12,000, with a lower mid-table finish, as they see their clubs in much better state than some Championship clubs in turmoil. They also acknowledge that the gap between the Championship-League 1 is a significant jump, with many teams that could get promoted fighting it out. They are hoping that Robinson will give them the quality needed to stay in the league.

Manager Karl Robinson, the face of the MK team since 2010. He certainly has his work cut out if the Dons are to stay in the Championship. 

It would take at least another 10-15 years from now for Milton Keynes starts to regularly fill most of their stadium on a regular basis (at least they are one of the best attended teams in their division, even if the stadium’s a bit empty). But as can be clearly seen, the club has set up an excellent culture that is tying itself to its community.

If this was any club, we’d be singing their praises, but thanks to how the club was formed, the dislike for MK Dons is still going to be ever present. Winkelman has even admitted that he follows what the fans want, and is even genuinely remorseful. However, this also means that he won’t be dropping the Dons, since the MK fans have no wish to drop the Dons from their name, even if pretty much everything else about the club is dedicated to the town.

Winkelman: “I now accept it was probably pretty crass to go and do it the way I did. I wasn’t so involved in football that I understood all the nuances.”

It should be noted that while Winkelman and the club say that the club is a separate entity that started life in 2004, more specifically the direct decedent of Wimbledon FC, (after all, the year is in the logo, anything before that does not concern the MK Dons.) some middle age fans (Up to 15% from outside MK) will claim that the club is a continuation of the previous incarnation, hence resulting in ‘wonderful’ half and half scarves that make that point clear, and chants of "Wimbledon" around the ground.

Some fans like to claim that the past and future are one continuous link. A serious claim or just some trolling?

Will this incident be forgotten over time like the Arsenal-Woolwich incident? After all, the Arsenal name is in reference to the previous location, which being a club formed from workers from the Royal Arsenal of Woolwich. The decision to move the club to Highbury in 1913 was also on the basis that the club will not be able to survive if it stayed in the same location (there were in a very poor financial state). In hindsight, it was a good decision, and even looking back to 1913, the opportunities that Highbury provided compared to Woolwich was very clear. Then again, Arsenal moved across the Thames, the Dons moved almost 100km away. At least the Arsenal fans at the time could take advantage of the Underground to watch their team. Dons’ fans have to spend at least 80 minutes by car, and almost 2 hours by train to watch their team. Arsenal were at Woolwich for 27 years, Wimbledon for 113 years.

Maybe time is what is needed for this incident to be forgotten, and perhaps forgiven if they are to continue building the club for Milton Keynes the way they have? 

Winkelman: "We run a really good football club.”

For the first time in their history, Milton Keynes will be in the Championship.

Milton Keynes Dons, a respectable club in sync with its community? Or a bunch of thieves taking an honest club, keeping their position without doing it the hard way?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Stories of owners and their clubs, eh? Why don’t we do a certain little example now that they've been promoted? A piece that focuses on the town and the owners’ perspective concerning football. Which means there are certain juicy bits that won't be further explored, but hopefully there are other bits that would be just as good.


It's a common question, and since it is exactly 13 years to the day, why don't we take a look at this? Hopefully it will be enlightening if you haven't seen it in much detail before.


Please forgive me for the very lame intro.





Milton Keynes: Is Don, Is Good?

Is wanting pro football club, but in a more convenience? Is working to relocate club to shiny new stadium for community pleasure! Is cut from Wimbledon Fresh!

MK fans make it known full well to AFC Wimbledon fans that they will be donning the name with pride.

Milton Keynes Dons. One of the most hated teams in the English Pyramid. Worse than Leeds, but maybe not as much as Milwall.

We’re all familiar with this story, the tale of an owner moving his club from the confines of Wimbledon in the Merton Borough, the bastion of tennis tradition, to the town of Milton Keynes in Buckinghamshire, home to the Jaguar Racing Team, which of course became the Red Bull Racing Team later on, and a dominant force.

A mixture of fans showing their support for Wimbledon FC fans. I prefer Fans City myself.

Relocation may be considered somewhat normal in the US, but in the UK, it is one of the biggest sins for an owner to commit, up there with changing the shirt of the club, or even the name. Wimbledon’s team has been there since 1889, and as expected, it met with plenty of backlash, to a point where AFC Wimbledon was created by the fans that no longer identified with the club, as the ‘true’ successor to Wimbledon FC, and opposition fans would boycott MK Dons matches in protest.

So, why would the owner make such a decision to take a borough’s livelihood elsewhere? To answer that question, we must actually take a look at the town itself.

Milton Keynes in 1967.

Milton Keynes is actually a relatively new town. Originally a village known as Middleton de Keynes, (I think you can see how it got its current name), the land around it was set up as a new town in 1967 as part of the government policy to house people from Greater London to newly made communities known as the London Overspill.

Promotion campaigns to move people to communities outside of London. This was quite common in the period between WWII and the 1970s.

Of course, there was no football club representing the new town at the time. So what did they do? First, they tried to tempt Charlton to come on over, recently relegated to the third tier in the 72/73 season, losing 46% of their attendance from previous year to have an average of 5,600, with the local council and owners at odds about future developments. The relocation never happened. (There’s more on that story, but perhaps another time).

Then they decided to renamed the club next door. So in 1974, Bletchley Town (founded in 1956) became Milton Keynes City (to be fair, Bletchley is now a part of Milton Keynes), also known as the Gladiators. This team was in the Southern Premier, which was the 5th tier back then. Needless to say, the club was poorly supported. The poor results didn’t help matters either.

MKC Vs Chesham, 1980. The MKC chap tries his best to tackle, but just like the team itself, it wasn't exactly a success.

Believe it or not, it would be 1979 when the first mentions of Wimbledon relocating to Milton Keynes became an idea. Wimbledon were a part of the Football League structure for the first time in 1978, (the Conference came to be in 1979, pushing MKC to the 6th Tier), and the club looked like it was going places (They would eventually reach the top tier in 1986). This was first purposed by Ron Noades, the owner of Wimbledon at the time. To be fair to Noades, he did have a point. If you’ve been to the History topic at some point, you would see stadiums filled to the brim with eager fans, all wanting to get a glimpse of their team in action.

Ken Noades, a prominent figure of South London Football. Former owner of Wimbledon and Crystal Palace.

Just for reference sake; Plough Lane, Wimbledon’s home ground, had its highest ever capacity of 30,000 in the 1930s. Wimbledon’s highest ever attendance was 18,030 in 1935 in an FA Amateur Cup tie. Even at the time of its dissolution, including in the Premier League, that figure was only passed once. To be fair, the ground capacity was only 15,876 by the time they were top tier. Even with the move to Selhurst Park, and after the last expansion to today’s current capacity, the stadium was only 60% full on average, either clear last, or fighting with QPR and Southampton for lowest attendance figures, where both clubs were limited by the capacities of Loftus Road and The Dell respectfully. The club lost 54% of its average attendance once relegation finally hit the club in 2000 after they failed to win on the final day and Bradford won over Liverpool, to a measly average of 7,900 out of a possible 26,255. It has been noted that one of the main reasons why Wimbledon had figures that was double the historic figure was because their tickets were the cheapest, and they were often cited as one of the safest clubs in the country. 

In context to 1979; Wimbledon’s average crowd was around 3,000 to 3,700. 4th tier clubs had an average of 4,200 in 1979. The population of Milton Keynes in 1980 was 150,000 and growing. The population of Merton was around the same, but with a declining population due to the region performing poorly on a commercial level at the time. Milton Keynes was fast becoming an economic centre, with many companies establishing their HQs in the town, like Mercedes-Benz, Yamaha Music, and even BP. Milton Keynes had no FL club to identify the town with, Wimbledon were basically on the opposite side of Fulham and Chelsea, who of course were more established and were bigger clubs than Wimbledon.

Basically; a club that is limited by its lack of potential in growth in its local area, hindered by larger and more popular rivals, and is unlikely to improve no matter what measures are taken to increase attendances, is being tempted by a fast-growing area that is fast becoming a busy hub, with the prime opportunity to a monopoly on the local population and potentially lucrative sponsorship deals? Does that sound familiar?

The roundabouts of Milton Keynes. Anyone that has been to the city would know all about them. Was Noades about to turn off onto a more successful road?

You can see why Noades was tempted by the idea, he thought he could get a bigger crowd in Milton Keynes, and saw the potential of business growth. After all, if he merged Wimbledon with Milton Keynes, surely the fans would get behind their newly established Football League team. The location seemed promising enough, a new town with a fast growing population. Much better than sharing the tight space back down in London. A standalone club would be an excellent business move… right?



Well, no. Crowds were still poor, even with the promise of an FL club, and after the club’s most successful season, to the point where nearby Northampton Town, who were starting to struggle (would later go on to record the only time a league game in the Football League has had a crowd of less than 1,000), would still be at a comparable level, even when Wimbledon got promoted (they had the worst average amongst the 3rd tier clubs in 1980).

Noades lost interest in Milton Keynes and sold his share the season after. He would sell Wimbledon to take over Crystal Palace, even entertaining the idea of a merger with Wimbledon, (He did manage to get the club to come over to Selhurst Park in the first place).

The next club that would take an interest was Luton Town. The owners thought it was a great idea. The fans, not so much. So much so that they were boycotting games, holding marches, even flying a plane over the ground, demanding that the club stays in Luton. The Milton Keynes locals feared that the hooligans would run wild if the move went ahead. The vehement opposition meant that the move never went ahead.

Milton Keynes City eventually folded in 1985, after many poor results (the club only won the 79/80 Berks & Bucks Senior Cup (A cup where MK Dons sends their youth team these days) under Noades), and no financial backing.

By now, it has become quite clear that the people of Milton Keynes just can’t get behind a local club. Many of the locals had ties to their previous clubs, and while it is true that the football clubs that represented the town were not from the FL, the attendance figures show that they couldn’t really care about the club. Bear in mind that the Milton Keynes is comparable in size to Hull, Wolverhampton, Stoke, Derby, and Southampton, yet it struggles to get even 2% of its population interested in a single club, even in the lower tiers. There’s just no desire amongst its people to support a local club from the ground up.

The crest of the 2nd MKC. Note the Silver Arrows present.

Even the 2nd incarnation of the club, which was purely local, did nothing to inspire the Cattle. You’ve head of Vauxhall Motors FC, so prepare yourself for Mercedes-Benz FC. Mercedes-Benz’s UK HQ (as well as one of its factories) is located in Milton Keynes. It became MKC the year after, with the goal to win the hearts of the Milton Keynes people. The players were from the MB factory itself, surely that would garner some support? Again, to no avail. The club would fold, but Milton Keynes would still have a club for next season.

New Milton Keynes owner Pete Winkelman. You can already tell what the Womble fans think just by looking at that face.

On the 28th of May, 2002, The FA gave the green light for Pete Winkelman, a major player behind the relocation, and eventually the new chairman, to move the club from Wimbledon to Milton Keynes for the 2004-2005 season. It had been a long round of appeals and protests, but the soon-to-be chairman finally got his wish in the end. He had gone all around the country, looking for suitable clubs that would be willing to move to Milton Keynes. Considering the past history between Wimbledon and possible ideas for relocation and mergers, as well as owners who simply have no idea what football even meant to a fan, he was able to not only successfully convince the owner of such a relocation, but also The FA, who have gone on record to state that the Wimbledon case was an exception to the rule, and by no means should set a precedent of clubs relocating. In an ordinary circumstance. Milton Keynes would've needed to start from the bottom. But due to certain 'influences,' the panel had made its decision to allow MK to take Wimbledon's place.

Owners Røkke and Gjelsten bought the club in 1990 and became co-owners in 2000.

Chairman Charles Koppel wasn't exactly a popular figure. He had never even attended a game of football in his life. Which made it easy to move the club away.

Winkelman had put in a lot of effort to move a club to Milton Keynes. He had a grand plan for a brand new stadium and facilities for Milton Keynes, all he needed was a professional club to occupy the ground, and make his dream a reality. The largest grocery shop (at the time) might have played a part, but we're talking about the football here.

The majority of the fans left the club to found the fan owned AFC Wimbledon just two days later, who would start their campaign in the 10th tier next season. Wimbledon FC’s attendance for the 02-03 season was 2,700, the third lowest out of the top 92 in their last season at Selhurst Park, (AFC Wimbledon averaged 3000), before their move to MK the next season, which would still retain the name, but boost the lowest average attendance by far in the 2nd tier as the club not only entered administration, but got relegated to the third tier to start their new life, a division they haven’t played in since 1984.

Dean Lewington, MK's Stevie G. One of two players to be at Wimbledon FC and MK Dons, with more than 500 games to his name, most of those as captain. But is he a heroic one-club player, or the face of a franchise? Then again, he's ginger... 

Now that the club had moved to Milton Keynes, is playing under the MK Dons banner, and even changed their home colours, exactly what was the strategy to make the people of MK get behind the team? They only attracted an average of 4,750 in their first season in the town. Already they were hated by every other club, as the fans of Tottenham, Charlton, and Luton demanded that their clubs cancelled their friendlies. Winkelman still claimed the club’s history, despite the cultural ties being cut from the club (even the Womble mascot wanted nothing to do with the club), in an attempt to tie past, present, and future.

Interestingly enough, the club had to first win over the opposition fans, by acknowledging its actions were in the wrong, and renounce the claim to Wimbledon’s history, from trophies to copyrights. All of this was successfully accomplished in 2007, with the Wimbledon legacy returning to Merton, which meant that not only opposition fans would no longer call for boycotts against the Dons, but it would be an acknowledgement that MK Dons’ history started in 2004, and are a different club to Wimbledon FC.

The Legacy of Wimbledon FC (Wombles included), now resting at Morden Library in Merton. For once something relocating away from Milton Keynes. This move represents the fact that MK Dons is a new club in its own right. Wimbledon FC is dead and buried, its grave can be found here.

The next step was to actually develop its own identity now that the club had acknowledged that its beginnings were in 2004, not 1889. To become a club that isn’t a relocated Wimbledon, but a club that represents Milton Keynes. Out went the Wombles and the Crazy Gang. In came with the references of concrete cows, complicated roundabouts, and that pioneering spirit that has given Milton Keynes its own little reputation as the fastest growing city in the UK. It could also be argued that its biggest rivalry is not that of AFC Wimbledon, but actually Peterborough. A town that Milton already had a rivalry with as a fellow New Town in other sports, but which was quickly developed due to a couple of play-off battles and thrilling matches.

Mooie (Cow) and Donny (Bull), the mascots of Milton Keynes.A tribute to the concrete cows of Milton Keynes. The stand known as the 'Cowshed' should be located to the right of the MK DONS seating.

Finally, there is the future of the club itself. There is fast becoming a generation gap, between the middle aged men who followed the club to Milton Keynes, and still like to claim themselves as the ‘Real Wimbledon,’ and a generation of kids that is being introduced to the club through the community and its many youth programs. The club has been noted to have one of the best youth set ups in the country, and most of its first team graduates are born within the area.  A few of these kids actually have represented England in their age groups, and considering the club has spent most of its time in the 3rd/4th tiers since its rebirth, is an excellent achievement. Season tickets for U18s are only 60 pounds and its 6 pounds for U12s for the 15/16 season in the Championship. This is actually a price freeze from this season, with the 6 pound season ticket increased from U7 to U12. The club is financially sound, and they have an excellent community organisation in the form of MK Dons SET, who promote health, education, and well-being amongst the community.

It is estimated that around 35-40% of the club's season ticket holders are under the age of 18.

Daniel Powell, one of the success stories of the Dons academy. He's been with the club since the relocation as a child. He has played more than 200 games for the club.

They’re an even bigger success on-field in recent times, playing a very attacking and exciting brand of football. They cracked the century this season with a GD of +57, with a highlight of thrashing Oldham 7-0 and Manchester United 4-0 in the FA Cup. Manager Karl Robinson was once the youngest manager out of the Top 92 in 2010, and he’s been a major figure on and off the field to this day to become one of the longest serving managers of the club. His persistence has finally been rewarded with the club reaching the Championship for the first time.

Fans are predicting crowd figures in the Championship are predicted to be around 12,000, with a lower mid-table finish, as they see their clubs in much better state than some Championship clubs in turmoil. They also acknowledge that the gap between the Championship-League 1 is a significant jump, with many teams that could get promoted fighting it out. They are hoping that Robinson will give them the quality needed to stay in the league.

Manager Karl Robinson, the face of the MK team since 2010. He certainly has his work cut out if the Dons are to stay in the Championship. 

It would take at least another 10-15 years from now for Milton Keynes starts to regularly fill most of their stadium on a regular basis (at least they are one of the best attended teams in their division, even if the stadium’s a bit empty). But as can be clearly seen, the club has set up an excellent culture that is tying itself to its community.

If this was any club, we’d be singing their praises, but thanks to how the club was formed, the dislike for MK Dons is still going to be ever present. Winkelman has even admitted that he follows what the fans want, and is even genuinely remorseful. However, this also means that he won’t be dropping the Dons, since the MK fans have no wish to drop the Dons from their name, even if pretty much everything else about the club is dedicated to the town.



It should be noted that while Winkelman and the club say that the club is a separate entity that started life in 2004, more specifically the direct decedent of Wimbledon FC, (after all, the year is in the logo, anything before that does not concern the MK Dons.) some middle age fans (Up to 15% from outside MK) will claim that the club is a continuation of the previous incarnation, hence resulting in ‘wonderful’ half and half scarves that make that point clear, and chants of "Wimbledon" around the ground.

Some fans like to claim that the past and future are one continuous link. A serious claim or just some trolling?

Will this incident be forgotten over time like the Arsenal-Woolwich incident? After all, the Arsenal name is in reference to the previous location, which being a club formed from workers from the Royal Arsenal of Woolwich. The decision to move the club to Highbury in 1913 was also on the basis that the club will not be able to survive if it stayed in the same location (there were in a very poor financial state). In hindsight, it was a good decision, and even looking back to 1913, the opportunities that Highbury provided compared to Woolwich was very clear. Then again, Arsenal moved across the Thames, the Dons moved almost 100km away. At least the Arsenal fans at the time could take advantage of the Underground to watch their team. Dons’ fans have to spend at least 80 minutes by car, and almost 2 hours by train to watch their team. Arsenal were at Woolwich for 27 years, Wimbledon for 113 years.

Maybe time is what is needed for this incident to be forgotten, and perhaps forgiven if they are to continue building the club for Milton Keynes the way they have? 

For the first time in their history, Milton Keynes will be in the Championship.

Milton Keynes Dons, a respectable club in sync with its community? Or a bunch of thieves taking an honest club, keeping their position without doing it the hard way?

Finally got around to reading this Fryer - really interesting read. Thanks for putting that together. I think I now understand the bad stigma on MK Dons.

Have AFC Wimbeldon and MK Dons ever played or been drawn against each other in a competitive match? That would be interesting to see.

It's good that Winkelman seems to be genuinely remorseful of how the relocation went down - certainly sounded like it could have been done better to say the least.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Starting to think Fryer Tuck isn't just the best poster on this board, but BigFooty on a whole.
Loved that post, extremely informative (Y)

 

[Fryer Tuck]

Finally got around to reading this Fryer - really interesting read. Thanks for putting that together. I think I now understand the bad stigma on MK Dons.

Have AFC Wimbeldon and MK Dons ever played or been drawn against each other in a competitive match? That would be interesting to see.

It's good that Winkelman seems to be genuinely remorseful of how the relocation went down - certainly sounded like it could have been done better to say the least.

Thanks very much. I hope it was somewhat informative!

In regards to matches involving those two, three games have been played, and all in different cup competitions too (all games have been played at Stadium:MK as well.) MK won the first two games 2-1 (FA, 2012), and 3-1 (League, 2014), but AFC Wimbledon won the last one 3-2, coming from behind (FLT 2014).

As you can see from that second picture, that banner was bought out in response to AFC Wimbledon fans demanding that MK drops the Dons from their name. As expected, the MK fans are still holding onto it. Just for the record, Winkelman will not drop the 'Dons,' unless the MK fans do. He says that he will always listen to his fans demand. To be fair, he has been pretty good on his word.

MK Fans nickname AFC Wimbledon as 'AFC Hypocrites,' one of the reasons is due to this incarnation of the club not playing their games in Merton. They actually play in Kingsmeadow (which is the borough next door.) Basically, not even representing the borough the club claims to represent.

That said, I believe in last December that AFC Wimbledon will sell Kingsmeadow to Chelsea, who will use it for their youth and ladies teams. This is because AFC Wimbledon are finally going to build their new stadium in Merton, and truly bring the club 'home.'

Of course, the downside is that the club they share the ground with, Kingstonian, will potentially be left homeless if this deal goes ahead. It doesn't sound like Chelsea will allow the club to stay at the ground. Of course, it's all in negotiations still, so we'll see what will happen there. Maybe chef is aware of any developments for their youth and ladies?

Also, just noticed the blog. Thank you very much for the opportunity!

 

[Fryer Tuck]

NUFC Tiger

You want a tale of an owner(well, head director)/club redemption?

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1197...sby-town-fans-raise-40-000-to-buy-new-players

After a very encouraging season, the club has actually genuinely made an effort to try get them out of the hole they have dug themselves into.

Just for a bit of background information; the former chairman, now head director, John Fenty was always a bit... well, fishy. Loaning out their star striker, selling their captain, hindering the team, and what have you. Part of the reason why Grimsby are no longer part of the Football League, not something you want over your head. The leadership has been described as morally and financially bankrupt. They even had a 'John Carver' in charge, only their John Carver (Known as Neil Woods, played more than 200 games for the club) was made permanent, after no wins in six games. Players didn't give a crap, the manager had no control, and the best players were sold off or released.

Of course, they have been stuck there since 2010, but are looking more and more likely to get out of there.

So anyway, the team is trying, looking a lot better, players actually want to be at the club (they've actually managed to keep the core of their squad, quite a different tale a few years ago), attendances are up, and a new stadium is on the way (not without its fair share of controversy, namely the maintenance of the old stadium.) That's why they all want to donate to the club, so they can get promotion at long last.

This isn't the first time they've done something like this before. They actually poached Joe Waters from us with their raised funds.

They are projected to have a transfer budget of £100k, which for a conference club is a lot of coin to play with. Maybe they might manage to snag something good with it?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

NUFC Tiger

You want a tale of an owner(well, head director)/club redemption?

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1197...sby-town-fans-raise-40-000-to-buy-new-players

After a very encouraging season, the club has actually genuinely made an effort to try get them out of the hole they have dug themselves into.

Just for a bit of background information; the former chairman, now head director, John Fenty was always a bit... well, fishy. Loaning out their star striker, selling their captain, hindering the team, and what have you. Part of the reason why Grimsby are no longer part of the Football League, not something you want over your head. The leadership has been described as morally and financially bankrupt. They even had a 'John Carver' in charge, only their John Carver (Known as Neil Woods, played more than 200 games for the club) was made permanent, after no wins in six games. Players didn't give a crap, the manager had no control, and the best players were sold off or released.

Of course, they have been stuck there since 2010, but are looking more and more likely to get out of there.

So anyway, the team is trying, looking a lot better, players actually want to be at the club (they've actually managed to keep the core of their squad, quite a different tale a few years ago), attendances are up, and a new stadium is on the way (not without its fair share of controversy, namely the maintenance of the old stadium.) That's why they all want to donate to the club, so they can get promotion at long last.

This isn't the first time they've done something like this before. They actually poached Joe Waters from us with their raised funds.

They are projected to have a transfer budget of £100k, which for a conference club is a lot of coin to play with. Maybe they might manage to snag something good with it?

Geez, sounds liks my Forest Green Rovers will have some competition to get promoted next season! £100k transfer budget? That would dwarf many League 2 teams and probably a few League 1 clubs as well!

Always had a soft spot for Grimsby - maybe it's the home kit?

Can recall reading the most epic (tragic if you're a Mariners fan) fan rant/meltdown I've ever seen - something they can also lay claim to!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...fan-letter-the-full-text-of-Poojahs-rant.html

I would love to see them back in the Football League - hopefully one day soon!