Owners

[Zidane98]

As someone who prefers to "look at factual information", there was another pretty interesting study on the same website you might have missed.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/16184742.2019.1588344?src=recsys "Breakeven regulations reduce the joint sporting and financial efficiency of regulated clubs, with the efficiency loss positively related to the severity of the breakeven constraint. The Financial Fair Play regulations further entrench the financial and sporting power of elite clubs and potentially undermine league competitive intensity by shifting the relative focus of clubs away from sporting productivity toward financial productivity".

Or there's this study: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAJegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3jfRuapEGW0MJfYAvKOa62 - In 2010, the UEFA approved new financial fair play (FFP) regulations to improve the financial health of European football clubs. In this paper, however, we show that there may be unintended consequences of the new FFP regulations. Based on a novel dataset of European football clubs, we find results that are consistent with the view that FFP has further amplified competitive imbalance. This is likely because FFP may raise some barriers against the entrance of new investors. Accordingly, we present evidence that, after the introduction of FFP, former season’s winners are correlated with greater budget shares in the upcoming season. Also, the positive correlation between the presence of football investors and competition is lower after the introduction of FFP. Overall, our results are consistent with the view that FFP tends to make European football leagues less equilibrated and to freeze current hierarchies. It fits into this picture that according to some authors FFP rules may be violating European Union antitrust.

Before FFP was introduced club losses across UEFA amounted to 700 million euros.

That was transformed into a collective profit o f 1.5 billion euros after 7 years of FFP.

FFP is needed, just needs to evolve to suit todays game.

 

[moomba]

Before FFP was introduced club losses across UEFA amounted to 700 million euros.

That was transformed into a collective profit o f 1.5 billion euros after 7 years of FFP.

FFP is needed, just needs to evolve to suit todays game.

Broadcasting income in England alone increased by over £1b a year in the first 7 years of FFP. That doesn't even include champions league broadcasting income which at a guess has more than doubled.

 

[Zidane98]

Broadcasting income in England alone increased by over £3b a year in the first 7 years of FFP. That doesn't even include champions league broadcasting income which at a guess has more than doubled.

Wages & inflation eats that all up.


Facts are that FFP has turned around the big losses that were around in European football prior to its introduction.

UEFA are implementing covid relief for FFP and looking to evolve it in the future which is a good thing.

 

[moomba]

Wages & inflation eats that all up.


Facts are that FFP has turned around the big losses that were around in European football prior to its introduction.

UEFA are implementing covid relief for FFP and looking to evolve it in the future which is a good thing.

Don't confuse your opinion with facts.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No shit club debts disappeared. It’s a system that limits spending to roughly what a club organically earns, even if the owner has the capacity to spend more

 

[SM]

No shit club debts disappeared. It’s a system that limits spending to roughly what a club organically earns, even if the owner has the capacity to spend more

is that such a bad thing? Bad for competition maybe but good for the survival of clubs.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Wages & inflation eats that all up.


Facts are that FFP has turned around the big losses that were around in European football prior to its introduction.

UEFA are implementing covid relief for FFP and looking to evolve it in the future which is a good thing.

No shit club debts disappeared. It’s a system that limits spending to roughly what a club organically earns, even if the owner has the capacity to spend more

Under FFP net debt across European clubs is up from 6 billion pounds to 7.2 billion pounds

 

[Zidane98]

Under FFP net debt across European clubs is up from 6 billion pounds to 7.2 billion pounds

Debt is a good thing when it is invested on long term infrastructure and/or youth football. Minimising losses more important.

 

[chef]

is that such a bad thing? Bad for competition maybe but good for the survival of clubs.

True. But it also pigeon holes clubs too and makes it hard for teams to take that next step to challenge for the league.

 

[Zidane98]

Spurs loaning money to build a new stadium is a good thing.

Spurs taking out a loan to spend 300m on Mbappe not a good thing.

 

[SM]

True. But it also pigeon holes clubs too and makes it hard for teams to take that next step to challenge for the league.

Yeah that's the tough part I suppose.

 

[chef]

Yeah that's the tough part I suppose.

I like how it saves clubs from themselves but you also love to see more teams challenging for trophies.

 

[Zidane98]

I like how it saves clubs from themselves but you also love to see more teams challenging for trophies.

Plenty of ways to challenge for trophies other than being big spenders.

 

[chef]

Plenty of ways to challenge for trophies other than being big spenders.

Is there?

Outside of leicester, Portsmouth and Wigan every major trophy over the last couple of decades has been won by a team that can spend.

 

[moomba]

FFP doesn't save clubs.

Leeds would have passed FFP, Rangers would have, Portsmouth would have. It hasn't stopped significant numbers of clubs from getting into serious financial trouble.

I'm all for rules that do protect clubs, but FFP just doesn't.

And the thought that an extra £1b in TV money is chewed up in wages and inflation, but FFP is responsible for all the good stuff is quite farcical.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Under FFP net debt across European clubs is up from 6 billion pounds to 7.2 billion pounds

Well then, what on earth is the defence of this failed money control measurement if debts haven’t fallen and it is prohibitive to clubs

 

[Zidane98]

FFP does save clubs. The facts are that losses have turned around from 700m euro loss to a 1.5 billion profit in thrle first 7 years of FFP.

Of course there will be those that try and attribute that to more income but in reality thats an absurd claim. Transfer spending in particular, wages hace gone up in a far greater magnitude than income has since 2011 when 50m got you a world class player where these days it gets you Gylfi Siggurdsson.

im all for an evolution of FFP rules to allow more initial investment in a responisble manner. The days of racking up nearly 200m losses in a season are over though and thats for the good of the game. And I suspect the ones thst protest loudest are the ones who were caught deliberately trying to circumvent the system.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Everton lost 112m through to June 2019 and by not being in a European competition have not breached FFP, and didn't get any better as a team. Working wonders it is

 

[moomba]

FFP does save clubs. The facts are that losses have turned around from 700m euro loss to a 1.5 billion profit in thrle first 7 years of FFP.

Of course there will be those that try and attribute that to more income but in reality thats an absurd claim. Transfer spending in particular, wages hace gone up in a far greater magnitude than income has since 2011 when 50m got you a world class player where these days it gets you Gylfi Siggurdsson.

im all for an evolution of FFP rules to allow more initial investment in a responisble manner. The days of racking up nearly 200m losses in a season are over though and thats for the good of the game. And I suspect the ones thst protest loudest are the ones who were caught deliberately trying to circumvent the system.

Linking increases in income to increased profitability is absurd?

That's a new one.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Plenty of ways to challenge for trophies other than being big spenders.

You said previously you like to deal in facts. The facts are that outside of the 5 clubs that spend the most, 1 other side has won the FA cup in the last decade, 1 other side has won the premier league and 2 have won the EFL cup. 30 trophies, 4 won by sides that aren't big spenders.

 

[Zidane98]

Linking increases in income to increased profitability is absurd?

That's a new one.

Happens all the time in business. Increased revenue outweighed by increased costs.

 

[chef]

You said previously you like to deal in facts. The facts are that outside of the 5 clubs that spend the most, 1 other side has won the FA cup in the last decade, 1 other side has won the premier league and 2 have won the EFL cup. 30 trophies, 4 won by sides that aren't big spenders.

And its been that way all through the PL era.

 

[Zidane98]

You said previously you like to deal in facts. The facts are that outside of the 5 clubs that spend the most, 1 other side has won the FA cup in the last decade, 1 other side has won the premier league and 2 have won the EFL cup. 30 trophies, 4 won by sides that aren't big spenders.

Define "big spender". Chelsea havent been big spenders for awhile.

Manchester United are big spenders. Hows that going for them since SAF retired?

 

[moomba]

Happens all the time in business. Increased revenue outweighed by increased costs.

What are the increased costs of the new TV deal?

You seem to want to ignore increases in TV money by linking that with wages and transfer spending. And attribute all the profit making stuff to FFP.

And the funny thing about using transfer spend as a way of pretending TV income hasn't increased is that it's a two way transaction. If TV money forces someone to spend more on a transfer, another club receives that money so it has no effect on total profitability at all.

 

[chef]

Define "big spender". Chelsea havent been big spenders for awhile.

Manchester United are big spenders. Hows that going for them since SAF retired?

We may be keeping the net spend down but our wage bill would be top 4 in the league.