Palatable Tanking

[Side Bet]

Roll over 14 players, rest / start late key performers, load up for 2 priority picks in drought... could be a long haul for us boys.

Thoughts?

 

[samseenee]

Roll over 14 players, rest / start late key performers, load up for 2 priority picks in drought... could be a long haul for us boys.

Thoughts?

Just regarding you choice of words

drought  /draʊt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [drout] Show IPA

Use drought in a Sentence

–noun 1.a period of dry weather, esp. a long one that is injurious to crops.2.an extended shortage: a drought of good writing. 3.Archaic. thirst.


draught  /dræft, drɑft/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [draft, drahft] Show IPA

Use draught in a Sentence

–noun 1.draughts, (used with a singular verb

) British. the game of checkers.2.Chiefly British. draft (defs. 1, 3–10, 18–25, 38).
–verb (used with object) 3.Chiefly British. draft (defs. 28–32).
–verb (used without object) 4.Chiefly British. draft (def. 33).
–adjective 5.Chiefly British. draft (defs. 35–37).

draft  /dræft, drɑft/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [draft, drahft] Show IPA –noun



Sports. a selecting or drawing of new players from a choice group of amateur players by professional teams, esp. a system of selecting new players so that each team in a professional league receives some of the most promising players.

 

[Outshined]

As much as I hate to say it, tanking is probably the best option for this club in terms of its future. The state of our middle tier players pretty much means we are going to have to go deep into the draft again this year, assuming Harvey cleans out the list again. Because of this, we desperatly need as many picks at the top of the draft as possible.

Our current situation in terms of injuries probably means we won't even have to tank though. We have every chance of coming last with the amount of first year players/dead wood that are currently taking the field.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

As much as I hate to say it, tanking is probably the best option for this club in terms of its future. The state of our middle tier players pretty much means we are going to have to go deep into the draft again this year, assuming Harvey cleans out the list again. Because of this, we desperatly need as many picks at the top of the draft as possible.

Our current situation in terms of injuries probably means we won't even have to tank though. We have every chance of coming last with the amount of first year players/dead wood that are currently taking the field.

the way we are going i think two priority picks next year are a real possibility as well

 

[The Purple Jesus]

The way we are going 5 priority picks wont be enough!
I dont think we need to tank though as we are shite and will lose any way (unfortunately).
We need to just keep playing as many young fellas as possible and making sure not to win another game (sounds simple). Pearce and Pratt would have to be a chnace to come in. A number I believe have played there last games for Freo (Head, Browne, Campbell, Drum for sure).
Keep on playing the skinny runts who arent quite ready and priority pick will be ours

 

[Moo]

As much as I hate to say it, tanking is probably the best option for this club in terms of its future. The state of our middle tier players pretty much means we are going to have to go deep into the draft again this year, assuming Harvey cleans out the list again. Because of this, we desperatly need as many picks at the top of the draft as possible.

Our current situation in terms of injuries probably means we won't even have to tank though. We have every chance of coming last with the amount of first year players/dead wood that are currently taking the field.

Currently - We are not tanking - we just can not win with the team we can currently put out.

Next Year - Tanking when half the early picks are going to 1 club would be suicide

Culture - Tank at your own peril. Winning clubs - win.

 

[Outshined]

Yeh Moo I agree, we currently aren't tanking and we probably won't need to for the remainder of the season. I certainly don't condone tanking and its impact on the culture of the football club definitely needs to be considered if we head down that road (most likely a small chance of that happening anyway)

The issue here is finding a balance between forming a winning culture and taking full advantage of the draft in the year we need to most. What FFC has to weigh up is what is more beneficial to the success of our club in the long term future, winning games now and contributing to the development of a strong culture or taking the view that a few more losses will reap big rewards with the amount of picks we could potentially get.

As you said though, it is a sad fact that in all probability we will field our strongest side available and still finish last or therabouts

 

[Side Bet]

I agree we are not good enough to tank (yet), the choices made by FFC have taken that horrible conundrum off our hands... and yes I meant "drought" as in "draft drought".

It's really not that unrealistic that we can't win more than 4 this year (WCE and Dees are to come though), and based on unknown FFC strategy next year could be the same. We may delist further etc.

Is that "palatable"? And should the defintion of tanking include FFC strategy?

Don't get me wrong, I am on board with Harv's the whole way. Just a bit depressing we might bounce along for a few years yet.

The upside is picks 3, 17/18 ish and 18/19th ish onwards - there are apparantly 17 "draftable" WA u18's. The following year we get another 2-3 cracking picks in a compromised draft where the whole league may reduce in skill level etc.

So Moo - do we get a first round priority pick, is it before or after GFC picks?

 

[Moo]

Is that "palatable"? And should the defintion of tanking include FFC strategy?

So Moo - do we get a first round priority pick, is it before or after GFC picks?

Certainly not tanking, we cleared house because we had a lot of duds on our list and we were fast approaching compromised drafts.

Freo saw this and cut hard in a deep draft - it is about the best decision our club has made since drafting Pavlich.

As I understand it PP's may soon not exist, if they do - then the club who earns them will take their pick in between the GC quarantined picks.

 

[thesmallprint]

Roll over 14 players, rest / start late key performers, load up for 2 priority picks in drought... could be a long haul for us boys.

Thoughts?

Don't mean to be picky but how do you get 2 priority picks in one year? Do they add up the total wins from the last two years or if you win less than 5 games this year do you just get what we got last year (pick 20 or thereabouts)?

Cheers

 

[smkwd]

As you said though, it is a sad fact that in all probability we will field our strongest side available and still finish last or therabouts

Not necessarily. We were pretty competitive in the first 7 rounds of the year when we had most players on the park. Our best 22 can play finals; the problem comes from losing 1/3 of your best 22 to injury at the same time.

We knew our depth was lacking, and Sat night showed just how shallow it is.

 

[Side Bet]

Don't mean to be picky but how do you get 2 priority picks in one year? Do they add up the total wins from the last two years or if you win less than 5 games this year do you just get what we got last year (pick 20 or thereabouts)?

Cheers

1 pick this year if we win <=4 (second round)
1 pick next year if we win <=4 (first round)

And Moo... yes it was a great move to clear out the WAFL, especiallally as Woosh was too ******ed to. These are all knonw issues though, what is unknown (and what I am keen on thoughts on) is what we are going to do going forward.

How many picks will we use, who will get delisted, will this mean we are bottom 4 next year?

 

[Moo]

Not necessarily. We were pretty competitive in the first 7 rounds of the year when we had most players on the park. Our best 22 can play finals; the problem comes from losing 1/3 of your best 22 to injury at the same time.

We knew our depth was lacking, and Sat night showed just how shallow it is.

I don't think our best 22 is capable of finals anymore.

There needs to be a push of talent up - it is imperative that guys like Walter, De Boer, Mayne, Clarke push into our best 22.

In my mind whilst Pavlich is forced to play midfield - we are a bottom 8 team.

I pin my hopes on a midfield of Palmer, Hasleby, De Boer, Hill & Ibbotson holding down the role and allowing Pavlich to be a target.

 

[Bad Brain]

To even consider tanking is bloody deplorable

For a long time our team has lacked the respect and confidence needed to win. You are dead-set kidding yourself if you think that losses like the one we had on the weekend won't do long term damage to our current list of young guns.

Geelong have done okay without tanking as has Brisbane, Sydney, Adelaide and as much as I hate to say it, Collingwood. If you want to support a team that takes the "professional / buisiness-like" approach in playing for picks then GTFO to Carlton or the Toast!

the team I support is a team that does everything in its power to win every single game regardless of ladder position.

 

[smkwd]

I don't think our best 22 is capable of finals anymore.

There needs to be a push of talent up - it is imperative that guys like Walter, De Boer, Mayne, Clarke push into our best 22.

In my mind whilst Pavlich is forced to play midfield - we are a bottom 8 team.

I pin my hopes on a midfield of Palmer, Hasleby, De Boer, Hill & Ibbotson holding down the role and allowing Pavlich to be a target.

Agree with all of that.

Suban/Tarrant/Hayden
Dodd/McPharlin/Grover
Hill/Haselby/deBoer
Thornton/Pavlich/Mayne
Ballantyne/Johnson/Headland
Sandilands/Palmer/Ibbotson
Broughton/Clarke/Duffield/Crowley

We miss Palmer, Hayden and Crowley quite a bit. Haselby and Headland fully fit would allow Pav to stay at CHF where we need him the most.

Peake, Schammer and Mundy would be depth players accordingly.

 

[prattsta]

I don't think our best 22 is capable of finals anymore.

It's not. The million dollar question is, will it be while Pavlich, Tarrant and McPharlin are still around?

Pavlich probably has 3-4 years, Tarrant and McPharlin may retire after next year...

There is a lot of pressure on Murphy, Campbell, Drum, Johnson, Sibosado and Shepheard to perform. At this stage only one of them is best 22 - though it's not in a KP role - three of them are looking like failures and the other two are rookies.

 

[sabre_ac]

While I realise Saint Kilda may be the exception..Surely the team that just handed us our worst defeat of our history can teach us something...

Adelaide have yet to bottom out and are consistently around the mark come finals time with 2 flags under their belt...Surely we must take something from a winning culture win's flags or at the very least get's sides in the position. An arguement could be made for Geelong as well.

Losing every game from here on in will only further stall the progress (Or lack of) of the likes of Mundy, Ibbotson, Hill, Peake etc...The so called good finishers in our side that are at their best when our side is up and running. The only players that benefit from a side consistently getting killed is the backmen and Broughton/Duffield etc.

Again I realise Haselby/Pavlich were taken in a draft we had priority picks, but again what do we have to show for it?

 

[dominguez]

Currently - We are not tanking - we just can not win with the team we can currently put out.

Next Year - Tanking when half the early picks are going to 1 club would be suicide

Culture - Tank at your own peril. Winning clubs - win.

GC only have every 2nd pick though. So if we were to finish 15th or 16th in 2010 with less than 4 wins after getting a PP this year we'd still be looking at 2 x top ten picks.

Obviously 2 x top 5 picks would be preferable but if we were to get picks 6 and 10 next year we should get players with a lot of potential. Not that I'm saying we should put the cue in the rack until 2011, but if we're struggling at the midway point of 2010 then the GC concessions shouldn't have an impact.

 

[dominguez]

To even consider tanking is bloody deplorable

I think some people get confused by the term tanking. No one is suggesting that the coaching staff tell the players not to try. What you do is focus on the longterm, which can cost you in the short term.

Instead of playing Crowley on the best midfielder you play DeBoer or Hill. Instead of Hayden playing on the best small forward you go with Pratt or Suban. Give Clarke plenty of ground time. Play Walters and Ballantyne together so they form some chemistry. If Shepheard or Bucovez show good WAFL form bring them in and give them big jobs. De-list anyone over 23 who isn't in our best 18. Push a couple of players into retirement.

Playing the young blokes is win/win, we either win on the scoreboard or we win at the draft table.

 

[dominguez]

Adelaide have yet to bottom out and are consistently around the mark come finals time with 2 flags under their belt...Surely we must take something from a winning culture win's flags or at the very least get's sides in the position. An arguement could be made for Geelong as well.

But Adelaide have participated in every draft this decade while we have essentially sat out every 2nd draft.

Our list is essentially the young guys taken since Connolly pissed off, the mid-tier guys who are underperforming and the guys who are in their late 20's and nearing the end. Not only do we need to replace the duds like Gilmore, Drum, Campbell, Murphy, Peake, Bradley, Thornton, etc but also Tarrant, Grover, McPharlin, Hayden, etc, etc.

 

[dugrene]

Can't believe we lost by so much and the manner we did it. Now the boys will have to back such a poor performance with a win. The coaching staff will be trying all soughts of set plays and zone collapses that will help us not to win.

Oh well..
I reckon I'm gonna have to back up our chances of losing by putting a C on the game.

 

[Bad Brain]

What you do is focus on the longterm, which can cost you in the short term.

I don't mind giving the kids big roles when required but I think your "development" strategy will only result in building a team of individuals incapable of team success. (For more info take a closer look at judd, gibbs, murphy and fev's mob)

 

[Side Bet]

I think some people get confused by the term tanking. No one is suggesting that the coaching staff tell the players not to try. What you do is focus on the longterm, which can cost you in the short term.

Instead of playing Crowley on the best midfielder you play DeBoer or Hill. Instead of Hayden playing on the best small forward you go with Pratt or Suban. Give Clarke plenty of ground time. Play Walters and Ballantyne together so they form some chemistry. If Shepheard or Bucovez show good WAFL form bring them in and give them big jobs. De-list anyone over 23 who isn't in our best 18. Push a couple of players into retirement.

Playing the young blokes is win/win, we either win on the scoreboard or we win at the draft table.

exactly

 

[smkwd]

But Adelaide have participated in every draft this decade while we have essentially sat out every 2nd draft.

Our list is essentially the young guys taken since Connolly pissed off, the mid-tier guys who are underperforming and the guys who are in their late 20's and nearing the end. Not only do we need to replace the duds like Gilmore, Drum, Campbell, Murphy, Peake, Bradley, Thornton, etc but also Tarrant, Grover, McPharlin, Hayden, etc, etc.

Spot on, dom. It has become acutely apparent that looking at last year's turnover of players, three of them we traded hugely to get over (Bell, Farmer, Carr). Add that to one who didn't survive 3 seasons (Croad), and one we traded over the odds to get and hasn't lived up to potential (Headland), and that's nearly half our squad that would be on or around the 23-26 year mark.

Instead we're left with 2 guns (Pav, Sandi), the rest of the leadership group, Tarrant and Solomon.

This club will never, ever replicate what Connolly did. So anyone suggesting targeting other club's players with anything other than 5/6/7 round picks or the PSD, are kidding themselves.

 

[Jimthegreat]

No offence to anyone but as I Calton supporter I'm loving the irony, not just on this board but those of other clubs too, given the crap we copped for tanking. Always interesting when the shoe is on the other foot, We weren't the first and certainly won't be the last while the PP system exists.