Religion Pell Guilty!

[Freo Big Fella]

? Isn't there a fairly straightforward remedy for young boys being felt up in a swimming pool - and that is either get out of the pool - or swim up to the other end.

I realise you've always been a deeply unpleasant human being Jane, but blaming the victims of sexual assault for their treatment is a new low, even for you.

No surprise you're a fan of Pell given his enthusiastic embrace of the same approach over the years.

 

[its free real estate]

Pell being cleared of all charges will bring melts. Said from day dot this was Australia’s “to kill a mockingbird” moment

Who is Tom Robinson?

Lmao.

 

[skipper kelly]

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ll-could-win-his-appeal-the-reckoning-podcast

Very interesting podcast by David Marr and Melissa Davey. Well worth the 21 minutes. Talks about the impossibility defence, Boyce's performance, juries and the court of appeals in general. Is sprinkled with audio excerpts from the hearing.

"Over two days in Melbourne, lawyers put to the Victorian court of appeal arguments about whether George Pell’s convictions should be put aside. David Marr and Melissa Davey highlight the most interesting discussions from the court and ask some key questions: did Pell’s defence fail because his team argued it was impossible for the crimes to be committed? Did the prosecution fail to sing the praises of the role of the jury? What must the three judges be thinking?"

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Anyone know how many civil cases are pending against Pell? This article mentions a number of civil cases - just curious to what they might be?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06...l-fight-child-sex-abuse-civil-claims/11191092

 

[gordo2016]

What a strange post. At best, he is totally exonerated and was falsely accused.

At best he protected his pedophile mates and ignored the cries of help of innocent children. You are the strange one.

 

[western royboy]

Anyone know how many civil cases are pending against Pell? This article mentions a number of civil cases - just curious to what they might be?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06...l-fight-child-sex-abuse-civil-claims/11191092

He’s named in at least two that I know of - once the appeal is resolved and the Redacted sections of the Royal Commission Final Report are released it will be open season. He will be called as a witness in at least one civil trial because his evidence at the RC tipped the bucket on a few of his crew. As I mentioned earlier - George will be spending a lot of time in Court moving forward regardless of what happens in the appeal.

 

[eastfreo75]

Well no - you see I’m a survivor of abuse by Ridsdale and I move in circles of like folk - some of which were complainants in the now aborted Eureka Pool Case. So let me assure you - George Pell is at best a sick pervert - at the very ******* best.

I’m so sorry for your abuse.

 

[Leeda]

Apart from those who have had despicable events happen to them.. the situation of Pell is perhaps different.. it seems that it can't have happened in the way it was believed to have been done.
because it was implausible.. the facts, the direction, the place, the people, the timing, the ultimate fraction of the whole scenario was that it can't have been done without it being witnessed by others..

evidence, witnesses, timing, situation, reason, detail,
something just doesn't lead to a categorical deliberation of guilt...

 

[JoondalupJ]

Apart from those who have had despicable events happen to them.. the situation of Pell is perhaps different.. it seems that it can't have happened in the way it was believed to have been done.
because it was implausible.. the facts, the direction, the place, the people, the timing, the ultimate fraction of the whole scenario was that it can't have been done without it being witnessed by others..

evidence, witnesses, timing, situation, reason, detail,
something just doesn't lead to a categorical deliberation of guilt...

Of course its not about the revulsion of pediphiles, this is about whether justice was done, and that the media may have biased this case so badly, that he had no hope, but to be found guilty by a jury?
So we don't really know one way or the other?
That's the problem , whether a charge is that, or whether some other crime, accused people cannot be condemned so roundly by press and people in the public who may not really know.
So because of that failure, he may be guilty and get off, he may be innocent and get jailed, and that is not justice.

He's 78 he is not young, the wrong decision could be devastating.

I think the victim , the accuser , should be able to come out in the open for their testimony.

Pell sure as hell, faced the public.

I'm no lawyer but he looked hung drawn and quartered before the jury made its mind up?

This is not about protecting scum bags , its about getting the guilty and proving it? Isn't it?

 

[JoondalupJ]

I hope the scumbag rots in goal

******* scumbag

If he's guilty, yes, did he get a fair trial , you tell me whether you think he did? Or is he guilty before anything happens at all?

 

[Craven Morehead]

Of course its not about the revulsion of pediphiles, this is about whether justice was done, and that the media may have biased this case so badly, that he had no hope, but to be found guilty by a jury?
So we don't really know one way or the other?
That's the problem , whether a charge is that, or whether some other crime, accused people cannot be condemned so roundly by press and people in the public who may not really know.
So because of that failure, he may be guilty and get off, he may be innocent and get jailed, and that is not justice.

He's 78 he is not young, the wrong decision could be devastating.

I think the victim , the accuser , should be able to come out in the open for their testimony.

Pell sure as hell, faced the public.

I'm no lawyer but he looked hung drawn and quartered before the jury made its mind up?

This is not about protecting scum bags , its about getting the guilty and proving it? Isn't it?

The SURVIVOR did come out into the open.
Within the confines of the court of law, as is our way.

Say, for example, your 14 year old daughter was r*ped.
Do you advocate for her testimony to the court to be made public?

Have a think about that.

 

[JoondalupJ]

The SURVIVOR did come out into the open.
Within the confines of the court of law, as is our way.

Say, for example, your 14 year old daughter was r*ped.
Do you advocate for her testimony to the court to be made public?

Have a think about that.

I have not actually said anything like that, but the victim was well hidden and maybe they should have been, for their sake.

But the goings on before the trial where he was found guilty by the general population via the media who in some , but not all cases sounded like..sounded like..!remember that he was as guilty as anything , and that is what I am on about with this trial.

You must put Pell aside from this , its about the track justice must go down for everyone!

I am saying what I saw on the news was unbelievable, if Matt Dillon was there he'd have had to bring out the shotguns to stop the lynching.

See everyone had presumed that he had to be guilty, before he even went to trial. And no I'm not a Roman Catholic apologist or a church person either.

I am someone who saw, that murdering piece of filth Charlie Manson even get a fair trial, took ages and everyone knew what he was.
Its about justice forget effing Pell.
In fact how would a trial like that go for you, if it was your 14 year old daughter accused of Charlie Manson's styled crimes,
have a think about that??

You'd want a fair one would you not?
By the way some poor individual rape victims do have to speak out in court , in Aus I am not sure if that is rare or not, but it happens in other places , know that.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I have not actually said anything like that, but the victim was well hidden and maybe they should have been, for their sake.

But the goings on before the trial where he was found guilty by the general population via the media who in some , but not all cases sounded like..sounded like..!remember that he was as guilty as anything , and that is what I am on about with this trial.

You must put Pell aside from this , its about the track justice must go down for everyone!

I am saying what I saw on the news was unbelievable, if Matt Dillon was there he'd have had to bring out the shotguns to stop the lynching.

See everyone had presumed that he had to be guilty, before he even went to trial. And no I'm not a Roman Catholic apologist or a church person either.

I am someone who saw, that murdering piece of filth Charlie Manson even get a fair trial, took ages and everyone knew what he was.
Its about justice forget effing Pell.
In fact how would a trial like that go for you, if it was your 14 year old daughter accused of Charlie Manson's styled crimes,
have a think about that??

You'd want a fair one would you not?
By the way some poor individual rape victims do have to speak out in court , in Aus I am not sure if that is rare or not, but it happens in other places , know that.

Same old, same old, everyone thought Pell was guilty before he was even tried, because the media said so, and that's why the jury of 12 ordinary people said so.

You know what your problem is (a problem blatantly apparent in your ignorant, nonsensical ramblings on the environment)?

You reckon you're the only person in the entire effing universe who can think for himself.

 

[Craven Morehead]

I have not actually said anything like that, but the victim was well hidden and maybe they should have been, for their sake.

But the goings on before the trial where he was found guilty by the general population via the media who in some , but not all cases sounded like..sounded like..!remember that he was as guilty as anything , and that is what I am on about with this trial.

You must put Pell aside from this , its about the track justice must go down for everyone!

I am saying what I saw on the news was unbelievable, if Matt Dillon was there he'd have had to bring out the shotguns to stop the lynching.

See everyone had presumed that he had to be guilty, before he even went to trial. And no I'm not a Roman Catholic apologist or a church person either.

I am someone who saw, that murdering piece of filth Charlie Manson even get a fair trial, took ages and everyone knew what he was.
Its about justice forget effing Pell.
In fact how would a trial like that go for you, if it was your 14 year old daughter accused of Charlie Manson's styled crimes,
have a think about that??

You'd want a fair one would you not?
By the way some poor individual rape victims do have to speak out in court , in Aus I am not sure if that is rare or not, but it happens in other places , know that.

What's your point?
An incredibly high profile individual, who was a key witness in a very recent Royal Commission, (where many parts of that RC have been redacted until this all plays out) is charged and found guilty, awaiting an appeal decision.
You bring in Charles Manson.

Pell has been, IS, and will be, treated by the Justice system like everybody else.
AND, just like everybody else in the system, the names and evidence of the victim, as they were a child at the time, is protected.
As they should be!

 

[Strange Cat]

If he's guilty, yes, did he get a fair trial , you tell me whether you think he did? Or is he guilty before anything happens at all?

Excuse me?

I’ve akways said he’s entitled to his appeal.

The ****ing scumbag can ****ing fit away for all I ****ing care along with every other filthy pedo scumbag on the planet

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

What's your point?
An incredibly high profile individual, who was a key witness in a very recent Royal Commission, (where many parts of that RC have been redacted until this all plays out) is charged and found guilty, awaiting an appeal decision.
You bring in Charles Manson.

Pell has been, IS, and will be, treated by the Justice system like everybody else.
AND, just like everybody else in the system, the names and evidence of the victim, as they were a child at the time, is protected.
As they should be!

Is there anyone else you can name who had a specific taskforce applied to them in the absence of complainants and where advertisements for complainants were placed in the media?

 

[Strange Cat]

Is there anyone else you can name who had a specific taskforce applied to them in the absence of complainants and where advertisements for complainants were placed in the media?

Still defending pedos

Glad to see things never change

 

[Craven Morehead]

Is there anyone else you can name who had a specific taskforce applied to them in the absence of complainants and where advertisements for complainants were placed in the media?

There were no complainants, so they had to actually advertise for them??

The depth of your conspiracy knows no bounds.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

There were no complainants, so they had to actually advertise for them??

The depth of your conspiracy knows no bounds.

Assume just for a hypothetical moment that what I wrote was true. Would you not be concerned at the methods of our police force?

Add to the mix this hypothetical. Pell had, shortly prior to this complainant free taskforce being set up, embarrassed the now police commissioner for lies he’d told at the Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry into child sexual abuse by the clergy. Hypothetically of course.

Now if, hypothetically, these things were true, would you wonder about whether Pell got treated fairly by our criminal justice system?

I won’t throw in the timing of the charges occurring just long enough after the release of a certain book which had as its main sources that very same not corrupt police hierarchy.

 

[Craven Morehead]

Assume just for a hypothetical moment that what I wrote was true. Would you not be concerned at the methods of our police force?

Add to the mix this hypothetical. Pell had, shortly prior to this complainant free taskforce being set up, embarrassed the now police commissioner for lies he’d told at the Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry into child sexual abuse by the clergy. Hypothetically of course.

Now if, hypothetically, these things were true, would you wonder about whether Pell got treated fairly by our criminal justice system?

I won’t throw in the timing of the charges occurring just long enough after the release of a certain book which had as its main sources that very same not corrupt police hierarchy.

Isn't this fantastic.
Now, I'm no big city lawyer, but I feel sure that any one of them worth their salt would have dramatically highlighted all of these 'hypotheticals' BEFORE Pell was committed for trial, let alone convicted.

poor george.
It's all now a police conspiracy.

 

[western royboy]

Of course its not about the revulsion of pediphiles, this is about whether justice was done, and that the media may have biased this case so badly, that he had no hope, but to be found guilty by a jury?
So we don't really know one way or the other?
That's the problem , whether a charge is that, or whether some other crime, accused people cannot be condemned so roundly by press and people in the public who may not really know.
So because of that failure, he may be guilty and get off, he may be innocent and get jailed, and that is not justice.

He's 78 he is not young, the wrong decision could be devastating.

I think the victim , the accuser , should be able to come out in the open for their testimony.

Pell sure as hell, faced the public.

I'm no lawyer but he looked hung drawn and quartered before the jury made its mind up?

This is not about protecting scum bags , its about getting the guilty and proving it? Isn't it?

When the offences occur against you as a minor - under law your identity is protected - this is the voice of experience speaking - the victim/accuser has done all he has had to

 

[BlueE]

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ll-could-win-his-appeal-the-reckoning-podcast

Very interesting podcast by David Marr and Melissa Davey. Well worth the 21 minutes. Talks about the impossibility defence, Boyce's performance, juries and the court of appeals in general. Is sprinkled with audio excerpts from the hearing.

"Over two days in Melbourne, lawyers put to the Victorian court of appeal arguments about whether George Pell’s convictions should be put aside. David Marr and Melissa Davey highlight the most interesting discussions from the court and ask some key questions: did Pell’s defence fail because his team argued it was impossible for the crimes to be committed? Did the prosecution fail to sing the praises of the role of the jury? What must the three judges be thinking?"

Thanks I found this a very good summary and may answer some of the questions in posts here from people following the appeal.

Melissa Davey was one of the few journalists allowed at both trials and identified the prosecution casting doubt on Portelli's evidence as an important factor in the jury convicting Pell. Portelli admiting Pell wasn't always on the steps, they weren't always together as custom dictates as sometimes Pell had to leave quickly and Portelli left him to get the car and meet him later. There were also times when Portelli separated himself to go and have a cigarette.

It looks like Fred in #3026 has the most accurate description of Portelli's evidence. However why Boyce didn't emphasis this evidence from the trial in the appeal and also had to be prompted when trying to put the prosecutions case to the appeal judges was poor and I hope didn't derail the case. Got the feeling listening to the podcast that the trail lawyer sitting beside Boyce would have been better standing up and it may be that Boyce just wasn't familiar enough with the evidence?

Also I don't understand why it was so hard for Boyce to say why the jury's decision should stand when it's the whole basis to the legal system in Victoria and why three over-privileged elites of the System judging the same evidence for Pell, another over-privileged elite of the System, is better.

 

[BlueE]

I have not actually said anything like that, but the victim was well hidden and maybe they should have been, for their sake.

But the goings on before the trial where he was found guilty by the general population via the media who in some , but not all cases sounded like..sounded like..!remember that he was as guilty as anything , and that is what I am on about with this trial.

You must put Pell aside from this , its about the track justice must go down for everyone!

I am saying what I saw on the news was unbelievable, if Matt Dillon was there he'd have had to bring out the shotguns to stop the lynching.

See everyone had presumed that he had to be guilty, before he even went to trial. And no I'm not a Roman Catholic apologist or a church person either.

I am someone who saw, that murdering piece of filth Charlie Manson even get a fair trial, took ages and everyone knew what he was.
Its about justice forget effing Pell.
In fact how would a trial like that go for you, if it was your 14 year old daughter accused of Charlie Manson's styled crimes,
have a think about that??

You'd want a fair one would you not?
By the way some poor individual rape victims do have to speak out in court , in Aus I am not sure if that is rare or not, but it happens in other places , know that.

Actually Pell was one of the most protected perpetrators in Australia. No one even knew what charges he was facing, or how many because this information was suppressed. There was only a general information that Pell facing historic sexual assault charges. Few if any other perpetrator in Australia have had this protection of having their actual charges suppressed.

He had a very fair trail with extreme controls on what the media could report and when he was found guilty and media couldn't report because of suppression news paper and commentators that didn't mention his name are now being prosecuted.

He has evidence of abuse of children at Ballerat swimming pool, 1961 Philip Island camp and submissions by the royal commission not allowed to be considered to give him a fair trail and he was found guilty because he is guilty.

 

[BlueE]

Is there anyone else you can name who had a specific taskforce applied to them in the absence of complainants and where advertisements for complainants were placed in the media?

There was no lack of complaints. I'm hoping all of the evidence the royal commission collected from Pell's victims is released.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Actually Pell was one of the most protected perpetrators in Australia. No one even knew what charges he was facing, or how many because this information was suppressed. There was only a general information that Pell facing historic sexual assault charges. Few if any other perpetrator in Australia have had this protection of having their actual charges suppressed.

He had a very fair trail with extreme controls on what the media could report and when he was found guilty and media couldn't report because of suppression news paper and commentators that didn't mention his name are now being prosecuted.

He has evidence of abuse of children at Ballerat swimming pool, 1961 Philip Island camp and submissions by the royal commission not allowed to be considered to give him a fair trail and he was found guilty because he is guilty.

The investigators admitted at the committal there were no complainants at the time the investigation was opened.