Percentage

[Frodo]

One of my favourite whinges but it really does need changing.

Our goal difference on the ladder v that of Adelaide is around 50 points to our advantage.
But on percentage the Crows are ahead of us.

Surely that is wrong and encourages defensive play.

Soccer changed from percentage to goal difference a couple of decades ago. AFL should do the same.

It could cost us a home final !!!!

 

[ozzult]

So what happens when we play in terrible conditions and only score 9 goals and WIN, but another team scores 28 goals in perfect conditions.

 

[Sera]

Originally posted by Frodo
One of my favourite whinges but it really does need changing.

Our goal difference on the ladder v that of Adelaide is around 50 points to our advantage.
But on percentage the Crows are ahead of us.

Surely that is wrong and encourages defensive play.

Soccer changed from percentage to goal difference a couple of decades ago. AFL should do the same.

It could cost us a home final !!!!

Interesting idea but the 'purists' would never allow it...

 

[Voice of Reason]

"Percentage", otherwise known as "Goal Average", was the traditional soccer test - and I remember opposition from traditionalists when it was changed to "Goal Difference", but the game has clearly benefitted. It does encourage attacking play and running the game out rather than closing up shop.

It's more important in soccer, of course, because there are far fewer goals scored and it is easier to defend a 1-0 lead for 80 minutes, whereas footy is a game where it is harder to defend.

I'd support a change now because it may help to reduce the flood and the type of tactics used by Carlton last night (and Judge with us 2 years ago) when the motivation appeared to be to keep the margin of defeat down.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Originally posted by Frodo
Our goal difference on the ladder v that of Adelaide is around 50 points to our advantage.
But on percentage the Crows are ahead of us.

Surely that is wrong and encourages defensive play.

Soccer changed from percentage to goal difference a couple of decades ago. AFL should do the same.

No, it encourages you to score more and keep the others down, just as goal difference does. The difference being that percentage acknowledges the potential for vast differences in actual score in any given game (viz: Eagles won with 76pts two weeks ago, Eagles won with 187 this week) - caused mainly by weather and conditions rather than negative tactics, which aren't nearly as prevalent as they once were.

Goal difference is useful for soccer because there is no such massive variation, but in a game with much bigger and differing scores, it is far less useful for creating an accurate comparison.

 

[The Passenger]

i dont' think it will be good to change it to points difference, because of the way aussie rules is.

the scores in our game can be vastly different to another game because conditions play such a big part of the style of game. I'd say of all the sports in the world, aussie rules would be extremely close to the sport where the conditions control how many points are scored, more than any other sport.

 

[eagleskickass]

% wont affect us much cause of the draw so i dont think it will "cost us a home final". Also i reckon, as has been said that % is much better in Footy than goal difference just cause of the affect weather has on footy. In soccer you could be playing in hail and still get a 2-0, 2-2, 3-1 etc score and similar in dry conditions but in footy heavy conditions(ie torrential rain, drizzle etc) would result in very low scores compared to the high scores on fine games.

 

[Frodo]

As with soccer, percentage tends towards defensive teams. There is an advantage in having less goals conceded if goal difference is the same, this very fact supports negativity. Weather balances out over a season ( a lot better than umpire bouncedown favours do may I say)
The higher point scoring in AFL v Soccer is a furphy. A 2-1 win in soccer is equivalent to a 120-60 win in AFL. 3-1 would be 180-60. Now AFL on average is a lot much closer than that. Look at the premier league. Top 74-34 thats 218% Bottom 21-56 thats 32%. Our AFL is always much closer than that, so how we differentiate between teams on similar points is much more significant than soccer. In fact wasn't a finals berth decided on percentage just last year.

I'm amazed that Eagles fans can be happy with the fact that if the crows were on equal points with us they would be above us on the ladder despite us having more than 51 points goal difference better.

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by Frodo
As with soccer, percentage tends towards defensive teams. There is an advantage in having less goals conceded if goal difference is the same, this very fact supports negativity. Weather balances out over a season ( a lot better than umpire bouncedown favours do may I say)
The higher point scoring in AFL v Soccer is a furphy. A 2-1 win in soccer is equivalent to a 120-60 win in AFL. 3-1 would be 180-60. Now AFL on average is a lot much closer than that. Look at the premier league. Top 74-34 thats 218% Bottom 21-56 thats 32%. Our AFL is always much closer than that, so how we differentiate between teams on similar points is much more significant than soccer. In fact wasn't a finals berth decided on percentage just last year.

I'm amazed that Eagles fans can be happy with the fact that if the crows were on equal points with us they would be above us on the ladder despite us having more than 51 points goal difference better.

I'm not to worried, because it'd probaly even out in the end. one year we'd benefit from having %, but another year we wouldn't have.......

last year would we have missed the final had it have been +/- rather than %???

 

[ozzult]

Adelaide have a lower point difference than us anyway. 339 compared to 399.

They also have a higher percentage than us by 0.31. So either way, they are higher placed than us if we were equal on points.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by ozzult
Adelaide have a lower point difference than us anyway. 339 compared to 399.

They also have a higher percentage than us by 0.31. So either way, they are higher placed than us if we were equal on points.

Nope, we have ahigher difference..ours is 399 (60 more than the crows), so we would be higher on goal difference.

 

[ozzult]

Originally posted by Frodo
Nope, we have ahigher difference..ours is 399 (60 more than the crows), so we would be higher on goal difference.

True, I confused myself with whether or not having a higher number was better or worse.


Although this is a one off case, I'm sure if the AFL had a points difference system, and we had were behind a team because we had an inferior difference, although if it was on percentage we would be ahead, would you be calling for a percentage system?

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by ozzult
Although this is a one off case, I'm sure if the AFL had a points difference system, and we had were behind a team because we had an inferior difference, although if it was on percentage we would be ahead, would you be calling for a percentage system?

No, I think percentage is fundamentally unfair and against the principle of attacking / spectator enjoyable footy.

When soccer changed everone recognised that it was the right thing to do. However, getting change in Australia is like pulling hens teeth so I may as well give up before I start.

 

[ozzult]

Originally posted by Frodo
No, I think percentage is fundamentally unfair and against the principle of attacking / spectator enjoyable footy.

When soccer changed everone recognised that it was the right thing to do. However, getting change in Australia is like pulling hens teeth so I may as well give up before I start.

I was pretty happy with our attacking football last night.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Originally posted by Frodo
The higher point scoring in AFL v Soccer is a furphy. A 2-1 win in soccer is equivalent to a 120-60 win in AFL.

Or a 60-30 win. And goal difference would reward the higher scorers more. But knowing the nature of AFL, I personally don't think that that should be.

But it seems I am also far less concerned about negative tactics. The flood has come and gone as a prominent strategy.

 

[ozzult]

Originally posted by Mr Eagle
Or a 60-30 win. And goal difference would reward the higher scorers more. But knowing the nature of AFL, I personally don't think that that should be.

But it seems I am also far less concerned about negative tactics. The flood has come and gone as a prominent strategy.

Carlton tried to flood us last night when we went forward and we kicked 28 goals, so flooding is definitely a poor option.

 

[Mr Eagle]

Originally posted by ozzult
so flooding is definitely a poor option.

Most certainly it is now only the resort of those who are getting handed their arses on a plate.