Perfect football, why do we expect it?

[Premier Pies]

I really struggle to understand why so many of us expect the Pies to play perfect football every match and continuosly rack up the wins round after round. Lets go back to round 3 and how our season was shaping up after the Blues tore us a new one. The whole media fraternity wrote us off, every other club supporter thought we were gone and even many posters on here stated we were gone and the season was a write off. I was probably guilty of this to some extent too.

All of the classic indicators were there, pointing to a rather long and miserable season. Poor form, new coach and all the rumours about disharmony amongst the ranks, massive injury list with new additions of Reid and Ball adding to our misery. No one in their right mind would've thought let alone suggested that we would win our next 10 matches which included the likes of Adelaide (away), Geelong, West Coast, Essendon (Anzac day). If we were told we would win ten out of our next eleven matches, every Pies supporter on here would've gladly taken it and fist pumped

Now don't get me wrong, I was definitely hurting just as much as anyone watching the Pies play a terrible non competetive brand of football against the scum. It pains me to no end losing to them and I just really struggle to see things without my emotions driving my thoughts.

When the dust has settled and I avoid listening to the muppets on SEN and I don't read the papers about our bad loss, I can reflect about the game and think about it with an open mind not full of emotion and hate for the Blues. Then I can see the loss for what it was (abysmal) but also accept that the players had a terrible night out. Plus the fact the Blues were harder at it for the entire night and just had a greater desire and intensity than the Pies.

We have so much to learn from this loss and if we're mature enough and professional enough as an organisation, it can be the making of our season. Almost season defining in my opinion. If we pick ourselves up and bounce back against the Cats with a good win and then follow it up with a win against the Hawks, that would, without question be season defining. On the flipside, if we get rolled by the Cats and the Hawks and our form continues to deteriorate, that would undoubtedly be season defing too. Top four prospects would take a massive hit

So back to my original question about perfect football, why do we expect it every single week? If you go back as many years as you like in football history, it is extremely rare for teams to just dominate the competition and rack up win after win all season. Even some of the greatest teams of all time have endured 3-4 losses or even more during the home and away season. Brisbane Lions circa 2001-2003 (pains me to say) is the perfect example of one of the great teams of modern football. They never finished on top of the ladder and endured some terrible losses during those seasons, yet they positioned themselves perfectly come season's end for a massive crack at the premiership. The rest as they say is history.

So I would argue that there probably is no such thing as perfect football, especially in this modern football environment. It's just too hard to stay up emotionally and physically for an entire season and win all the bloody time. No club ever really "needs" to lose a game but it's not all doom and gloom. The AFL season is an absolute marathon and we just need to get ourselves in the right position to have a massive crack at the title come finals time.

Stick by the club and support them in this time of need. These are the times when the club needs support the most and positivity around the place.

Side by Side

 

[Beary17]

Makes me think alot of the posters who are quick to call panic stations have never actually played the game, especially not at a decent level, and don't understand what it takes for a side to be at their absolute best week in week out. Same goes for individual players, very hard to be the consistent perfect performers some (most) of the posters expect them to be.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

You ignore the circumstances of the loss, the second to Carlton this year. Only Geelong beat us last year and they ended up premiers. Also, the Carlton game seemed the most winnable of our next 3 matches.

 

[millsy29gopies]

We don't expect the side to play perfect football, but with the amount of quality on the list we expect the side to put in a performance worthy of a top 2 side. We played fairly average footy against Freo and none of us bagged the side. The Carlton game was a very winnable match, but the side that ran out didn't even look like they tried. If we played Melbourne on the weekend I reckon it would have been a similar situation to Gold Coast VS Geelong. Complacency is a b**h.

 

[Scodog10]

I've been watching Collingwood play for roughly 20 years and in that time I've seen us play maybe 12 quarters of perfect football. They were the 4 against the Cats in 06, the four against them in 08, the first half of the 2010 prelim, the last quarter against the Crows last year and even though my memories vague of it a quarter against the dogs where we put 9 or so past them early last decade.

I'd say that 99% of supporters are realists and don't expect us to win permanently, however it's very hard as a supporter to reconcile with what appears to be a lack of effort. They smashed us all ends up last time and surely that must have at least pricked the pride of the players even just a little bit. Yet there was no fire breathing response and want to rub their faces in the dirt all we saw was a rather jellyfish like response with a poultry 50 tackles and a lack of intent.

Watching that as a supporter causes the most angst. I don't mind if they get beaten by a better team on the day if they have a red hot dip, but losing to the better team on the day while going through the motions is what has caused the backlash from fans....

 

[stavmasto]

I've been watching Collingwood play for roughly 20 years and in that time I've seen us play maybe 12 quarters of perfect football. They were the 4 against the Cats in 06, the four against them in 08, the first half of the 2010 prelim, the last quarter against the Crows last year and even though my memories vague of it a quarter against the dogs where we put 9 or so past them early last decade.

I'd say that 99% of supporters are realists and don't expect us to win permanently, however it's very hard as a supporter to reconcile with what appears to be a lack of effort. They smashed us all ends up last time and surely that must have at least pricked the pride of the players even just a little bit. Yet there was no fire breathing response and want to rub their faces in the dirt all we saw was a rather jellyfish like response with a poultry 50 tackles and a lack of intent.

Watching that as a supporter causes the most angst. I don't mind if they get beaten by a better team on the day if they have a red hot dip, but losing to the better team on the day while going through the motions is what has caused the backlash from fans....

I don't think any team is capable of perfect football round after round after season after season. But I do believe Collingwood is a big enough club to mentally prepare players to say if it looks like we are having a bad game, especially when we had kicked 1.8 at the 10th minute mark of the 2nd quarter then players should be trained to possibly change their game style. The club is proffessional enough to train players for what if scenarios. Slowing down the Carlton ball runners, very easy to say up in the stands but they are full time players reviewing their KPI's and video reviews week in week out, they should be able to adapt. Collingwood has enough resources to inject information to players that yes our perfect football can beat anybody on the day but we also need to find balanced football to be able to withstand teams that are playing at their best. I feel that Collingwood has played consistent footy over the last 4 or so years but you cannot perfect an AFL team to play at their best week in week out. Collingwood has blooded so much youth into the 2012 side that you will get inconsistency throughout periods of a game.

What was not pleasing, was the tackle count, the clearances, the contested ball and numbers around the ball. The stats will tell you that Carlton played at their best and controlled the game. Collingwood need to find the balance when other teams are playing better. You need your seasoned players out on the park to get that balance. We definetely miss Pendlebury in the middle, Sinclair's pressure around the stopage and Didak's kicking game would have helped. B.Johnson is a the key though, he would have added penetration and more accountability.

 

[loki04]

More pissed at the lack of intent then the actual loss it self, players attacked it limp wristed after quarter time.

If the teams plays with passion or real grit and loses I'd have no issue as clearly we were beaten by the better side, but no one can tell me that they played like they wanted it badly.

 

[Premier Pies]

What about the outrageous scenario of the players just had a bad night? For some reason they were as flat as a tack which could be attributed to a number of reasons.

Maybe a few key players were under the weather (sick) yet still donned the boots and played? Maybe all the factors of Carlton being under intense scrutiny all week, coupled with us winning ten in a row and having a letdown of only a few percent made for a stinker of a performance?

Maybe they weren't mentally switched on like normal for whatever reason or their structures just outplayed ours on the night? Maybe it was just a bad night and sometimes this shit can happen?

Whatever the reason, let's not overreact here and slam all an sundry. Let's look at our position of 11 wins and three losses and be pleased with our efforts so far considering all of the issues we've faced.

Sure the loss was really bad. But if we were so shitfull all night and so many players were off their game, how did we get within 4 goals? To me that is a positive in itself, we have so much improvement in us and it's only round 15. We should be grateful it happened in this round and didn't happen in the finals.

The fact that we lost to Carlton twice now is irrelevant. It is not the same as losin to Geelong three times last year. Geelong were a clear flag contender and Carlton are nowhere near contenders for a flag in my opinion.

 

[loki04]

They don't have to be a flag contender only have to meet us in a final to screw our season.

ie 5th v 8th or they win the first final we lose ours we play em in semi. or outside chance they make it through to a prelim vs us ect.

Doesn't have to be on the last day in sept.

 

[Premier Pies]

In saying I don't think Carlton are a flag contender means I don't think they will make the finals at all. So we need not worry about them beating us twice.

I may be wrong of course but I don't think I am.

 

[Visions]

Hell, the club hasn't played perfect football in any game this year.

The issue is when they play pathetic football like the two games against Carlton that supporters might get in an uproar.

Even that first game against Hawthorn I didn't mind, at least we had a crack, just got outplayed.

 

[comeonpies]

perfectly said!!

 

[Captivating]

Hugh Briss came to the club last week....that's why.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Excellent OP. I'll add a slightly differnet perspective. I went to Europe 8 weeks previous and returned last Friday. When I left Oz, Carlton were the raging premiership favourites whilst Collingwood was struggling with a ship load of injuries. About the only bright spot was the emergence of Keefe.

Whilst overseas I (deliberately) didn't keep in touch much with the footy. On my return I was very surprised to find the Pies on top - and shocked to see Carlton outside the 8 and calls to sack Ratten. Couldn't work out what had gone so right!

Then I looked at the teams for the Friday night encounter - and backed the cheats. The simple fact to me was that apart from Murphy, they were almost at full strength and on paper had a muuch more experienced and stronger line-up than us. I was surprised how many first year no-names (remember I had been been away for 8 weeeks) were in our line up. Not having followed the footy while away, I still thought of the premiership favourite Carlton team that I had left 8 weeks previously and assumed they would win rather easily with their line up compared to ours. They duly did. There was no surprise at all to me, its what I expected. We had too many kids in the team for it to be otherwise - Williams, Paine, Elliott etc. I was saddened to hear of Keefe's injury (to add to all the others).

Hopefully we can get a few experienced players back in the coming weeks - we need them back. Can't rely on kids against the best teams week in, week out.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

I agree with so many posts in this thread.

Firstly, Carlton had a lot less injuries than us and more to play for so it was not than unexpected. Also, we don't handle quick sides, hence i also backed them (but it hurt so much).

Secondly, we had won ten in a row. As much as fans struggle with it, we were due a let down.

Perfect footy is near impossible long term, look at last year. I would rather just win games while not playing at our best. Then we hit our peak at finals. Look at the Geelong example from last year

I am confident we can win this years flag

 

[jmac70]

I am not after perfection, just four quarters of sustained effort. If we get that we will almost certainly win regardless of the opposition.

 

[Premier Pies]

I am not after perfection, just four quarters of sustained effort. If we get that we will almost certainly win regardless of the opposition.

What does four quarters of sustained effort equate to anyway? I bet if you ask any player in the team, they will all tell you they tried their arses off but it just ended up a shit night. Players don't go out there and not try or give their all. It's the mental aspect that is impossible to measure, but if a team drops their mental application (which is uncontrollable sometimes) the Carlton result is what you end up with as a consequence.

You could also argue that quite a few matches this season Pies have gone nowhere near for quarters of sustained effort, yet we won the match. Richmond, Freo, Essesndon and West Coast games come to mind immediately. All of those games Pies led comfortably through sustained effort and good team football, yet we also dropped our intesity and structures a few percent at different stages. Allowing our opposition back into the game and you might argue we were fortunate to win the Essendon and West Coast games.

So I don't think it's as simple as saying "I just want four quarters of sustained effort, then we'll amost certainly win". That is never the case and it's far too simplistic to measure our team that way. I just think we had a terrible night and we should put it behind us as quickly as possible. Sometimes teams have a shit night and there's nothing any coach or player can do about it.

 

[loki04]

^^ I was was ok with the Hawks rnd 1 loss as the team gave it there all, obviously you don't go out there to play like crud but I would of thought the players would of got up for this game after the reeming they copped early on in the year and at least showed some aggression and disappointment with the loss.


It's been very much meh we were due for a loss anyway it's only Carlton who cares.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

It doesn't have to be perfect if there's effort.

We've played Carlton twice, and twice shown no effort.

That's not good enough. Everyone can make all the excuses they like, but it's no coincidence that it was Carlton twice. We are now their bitch. It's that simple. I think many are having trouble coming ot grips with that because:

1) We hate Carlton so much

2) We haven't been anyone's bitch for a LONG time

As a matter of fact, the last time we were anyone's bitch, was Carlton also. During the 90's and maybe even early 00's.

 

[Dundalis]

We haven't played perfect football all year, so I have no idea what this thread is about. There is a reason our percentage is so shit. We are nowhere near the level of football we played the last two years.

We should be good enough to win most weeks though, but we were just shit on Friday. No effort.

 

[Premier Pies]

It doesn't have to be perfect if there's effort.

We've played Carlton twice, and twice shown no effort.

That's not good enough. Everyone can make all the excuses they like, but it's no coincidence that it was Carlton twice. We are now their bitch. It's that simple. I think many are having trouble coming ot grips with that because:

1) We hate Carlton so much

2) We haven't been anyone's bitch for a LONG time

As a matter of fact, the last time we were anyone's bitch, was Carlton also. During the 90's and maybe even early 00's.

I have to disagree with you there Shpeshal, two losses to Carlton in one season does not make us their bitch. You are being hysterical and are blinded by your hatred for Carlton. Believe me when I say, I loathe Carlton as much as anyone. It makes me sick to the stomach every time we lose against them

That being said though, I believe we just had a shit match. It's that simple really. The lack of effort that so many keep going on and on about is just not that simple. Sure we lacked effort, sure our key indicators weren't up to their usual standards, but why was this the case? It's not as simple just saying we lacked effort. And we definitely aren't Carlton's bitch no matter how you spin it.

We've won 11 out of 15 which is remarkable really when you consider everything. A good number of games into young players, our depth has really been tested and come through with flying colours until last week. There are so many positives so far in this season, yet so many just want to focus on the negative of one horrible game. If things are so bad, why were we one game clear on top of the ladder last week?

Lets see how we go against the Cats this week. If we are insipid again and don't fire a shot, then we can all start to worry what the hell is going on with our club. Lets not create a shit storm when we don't need to FFS!

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I have to disagree with you there Shpeshal, two losses to Carlton in one season does not make us their bitch. You are being hysterical and are blinded by your hatred for Carlton. Believe me when I say, I loathe Carlton as much as anyone. It makes me sick to the stomach every time we lose against them

That being said though, I believe we just had a shit match. It's that simple really. The lack of effort that so many keep going on and on about is just not that simple. Sure we lacked effort, sure our key indicators weren't up to their usual standards, but why was this the case? It's not as simple just saying we lacked effort. And we definitely aren't Carlton's bitch no matter how you spin it.

We've won 11 out of 15 which is remarkable really when you consider everything. A good number of games into young players, our depth has really been tested and come through with flying colours until last week. There are so many positives so far in this season, yet so many just want to focus on the negative of one horrible game. If things are so bad, why were we one game clear on top of the ladder last week?

Lets see how we go against the Cats this week. If we are insipid again and don't fire a shot, then we can all start to worry what the hell is going on with our club. Lets not create a shit storm when we don't need to FFS!

I'm not worried about our season. I said after we lost and I'll say again, I still think we'll finish Top 4 and most likely Top 2. I'm just disappointed we lost to Carlton the same way twice. Bitterly disappointed. Especially given how obvious it was Carlton was going to play that way given the week tey had.

So so so disappointed.

I'm pretty certain we'll beat Geelong, and even if we lose, I expect we'll see effort.

No shit storm here. We are Carlton's bitch. I know 2 games in a row doesn't constitute 'being a bitch', but when a team has the wood on you, it starts somewhere does it not? I believe it has started this year. We'll know for certain next year when we play the Blues again, or if we meet them in finals this year.

 

[Premier Pies]

We haven't played perfect football all year, so I have no idea what this thread is about. There is a reason our percentage is so shit. We are nowhere near the level of football we played the last two years.

Maybe you should consider that having a percentage of over 120 is quite reasonable considering how many players from our squad has played so far. What is it 35 or 36 from memory? That is an unbelievable number of players this early in any season, yet we are still good enough to be equal top bar percentage. I don't understand why you think we should just turm up every week and smash the shit out of our opposition every week and have a percentage of 140 plus???.

The competition as a whole is far more competitive than two seasons ago and even last year. That is why there is a logjam of teams in the top six. We have played exceptionally well to date and still be in with a realistic chance of top four and the double chance. It really is extraordinary what we've achieved so far with so much inexperience in our team every......single.....week!!!

We should be good enough to win most weeks though, but we were just shit on Friday. No effort.

I agree we were just shit on Friday but to just say no effort was the cause is just silly. You could put a bunch of under 18's in each week and they would bust their arse to be competitive, but they would most likely capitulate every week against any AFL team. However, you wouldn't be saying it was from a lack of effort would you? So saying no effort is just too simplistic in my opinion.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I agree we were just shit on Friday but to just say no effort was the cause is just silly. You could put a bunch of under 18's in each week and they would bust their arse to be competitive, but they would most likely capitulate every week against any AFL team. However, you wouldn't be saying it was from a lack of effort would you? So saying no effort is just too simplistic in my opinion.

I'd be more concerned if they DID put in an effort and still lost.

that would mean our best isn't good enough, which we all know is completely untrue.

Not chasing, no harassing, no supporting teammates = no effort.

 

[Zahki]

You don't need to play perfect football to beat Carlton, far from it. Thats why they're sitting outside the 8. I think people are upset that we lost to a very ordinary side twice this year and didn't show any indication that we had learned from Round 3. Which especially hurts because we lost a Grand Final last year under the same circumstances. We smashed Calrton the last few years, they couldn't get near us. They havn't improved at all this year that much is clear yet now they're making us look second rate? Thats hard to accept.