Pies are not at 100% yet; save that for Grand Final day !

[jonbe54]

What's been overlooked in this discussion regarding the "press" I think is that it requires quick entry into the forward fifty and slow movement of the opposition out of their defensive fifty. This was Geelong of old.

In games against Geelong this year we haven't been able to get it into our forward fifty and when we have they rebounded too quick for us to set up the press. Teams like hawthorn who chip it around give us the time to set it up.

The other trick I noticed geelong doing worked against our run along the boundary. This was to (win the ball first) immediately kick across the body into the corridor to a player waiting for this event, even kicking backwards sometimes and giving up territory. This gave them a beautiful run down the middle and stopped our well documented movement up the side line.

Like most games it will depend on who gets the ball out of the centre and the stoppages first and how they use it.

We will need to be on our game and we can do it but it wont be the Geelong we smashed last year.

The boundary kick into the corridor is just a variation on their gameplan, wisely they haven't tried to radical a change from their old gameplan but adjusted to suit the new circumstances. Also that is a surprise shot from their bag of tricks already exposed that can be taken into account. For about the millionth time Collingwood laid down in that game and allowed them to do as they wanted, most people - even Geelong supporters acknowledge that.

When they have been faced with the full press this season they faltered - look at their performance against West Coast who are almost as good at it as us - you can bet the Geelong brains trust don't believe they have our measure in any way. They know we have given them nothing this year, the real stuff has just begun and press or not they will be put through the wringer.

 

[PieBeast]

What's been overlooked in this discussion regarding the "press" I think is that it requires quick entry into the forward fifty and slow movement of the opposition out of their defensive fifty. This was Geelong of old.

In games against Geelong this year we haven't been able to get it into our forward fifty and when we have they rebounded too quick for us to set up the press. Teams like hawthorn who chip it around give us the time to set it up.

The other trick I noticed geelong doing worked against our run along the boundary. This was to (win the ball first) immediately kick across the body into the corridor to a player waiting for this event, even kicking backwards sometimes and giving up territory. This gave them a beautiful run down the middle and stopped our well documented movement up the side line.

Like most games it will depend on who gets the ball out of the centre and the stoppages first and how they use it.

We will need to be on our game and we can do it but it wont be the Geelong we smashed last year.

Excellent summary.
Those who are hoping for us to suddenly implement our "magical" press are doing exactly that - hoping.
Make no mistake, if we happen to meet Geelong in the big dance a tough, unrelenting footy through the guts is going to decide the winner.

 

[PieNSauce]

Excellent summary.
Those who are hoping for us to suddenly implement our "magical" press are doing exactly that - hoping.
Make no mistake, if we happen to meet Geelong in the big dance a tough, unrelenting footy through the guts is going to decide the winner.

I agree. Now that most coaches have had nearly 2 years to study the press and prepare their own strategies to beat it I think it will have very little significance in the outcome. It certainly seems to me that Mick doesn't use it all that much anymore and he as much as said so in last week's or the week before's message to members. To my way of thinking I'd suggest that old chestnut of winning the clearances will be the biggest single factor in this years flag if it's Pies Vs Cats.

 

[jonbe54]

Most people have caught up with me in understanding that the press was never going to be what we relied on to back up this year, sure the press is still going to be used but its not the be all and end all of our strategy.

You only have to look at our season and the strategies used, the press served its purpose in snaring us a flag - probably a year before we were ready for it - and in forcing other teams to come up with a counter.

But its obvious that we've moved on from the press and concentrated on player management and preservation for most of the season so far. It was always going to be this way as I posted pretty early in the year, no tactic lasts forever and any team who relies on a revolutionary tactic to win multiple flags is doomed to disappointment.

Onward an upward boys and girls

SIDE BY SIDE

 

[mwalker]

Re: Pies are not at 100% yet,Save that for Grand Final day !

Sorry guys, I've all but relented.

I don't see us winning it this year. Too many injuries and underdone players at the wrong time of the year.

I now truly see why back to back is so hard. You need EVERYTHING going right, and right now, we don't have that. The boys just don't look as intense as they have in the past.

I'm hoping things change for the prelim, but as of right now, I'm not particularly liking what I'm seeing. Hope it turns around. I'm not completely conceding yet, but I was hoping to see far more intensity against West Coast.

Probably right, but the other finalists are having troubles as well. Carlton are now without Gibbs and Kruze and Waite is gone. Cox/Kerr will be underdone. Franklin and Bailey hurt the hawks. All in all if Geelong can get a niggle or two in their premlim I still think we are good for b2b. Can't see the cats defeating us 3 times in the one year.

 

[upnsmoke]

I think it is a myth that we will suddenly produce the "press" by flicking a switch in the coming fortnight.

No, we didn't implement it through whole games throughout the season and we didn't use it at all against Geelong it seems in the round 24 game BUT we were using it as best we could last Saturday against the Eagles.

Basically, we used it as well as we possibly could bearing in mind the fitness of some of our players and their ability to cover ground. WC took the game right up to us.

The press is not revolutionary this year and teams are countering it so we are not smashing everyone like last year. We better get used to it.

I think our form will be proven to be strong after last Saturday but make no mistake, we were flat to the boards to win that game against a very worthy opponent.

I think the Pies were indeed using Press against the Eagles, but Eagles were doing the same, so the result is a low scoring game.



Against Cats...
I agree with you, The Press is not a Magical SPECIAL TACTIC that automatically gives the Pies an advatnage.
Its not a TURBO BOOST that wins you the drag race comfortably.


This season, the Cats look prepared against it.
Some are saying Pies have not given Cats anything, well Cats have definitely given the Pies something... something to worry about.

As simkin68 also stated...
As I and others also have stated...

Cats DEFENSIVE pressure IS UP this season when they turn it on. Pies couldnt even keep the ball in their forward 50 enough time.
- Cats tactic seems to be, when Pies get inside their forward 50, they apply their own PRESS.
Then WIN the ball, kick it LONG into the corridor, where a couple of Cats players are positioned nicely.

They then stick to the corridor, find a leading forward, the leading forward then KICKS it deep into the Cats forward 50, and at times forward 20.... which they have 2-3 TALL guys who can win the one on ones.... this is almost unguardable for the Pies due to the Cats height and size.

- When the Pies do take to the boundary, the Cats always have the numbers, they prevent a clean mark, hence the ball is in contest... they win it (MOST of the time) then their numbers allow them to cleanly hand ball it to a guy outside the scrimmage, who kicks it into the corridor towards their forward 50.... then bomb it to the forward 20 to one on ones....
When the Pies do prevent the Cats forwards from marking, the a few of the Cats midfield are already inside the forward 50 ready to aim for the goal...

This is ALL DONE quickly and as least possesions as possible..... The Pies PRESS cannot catch up to it from this position.

Hence Cats just keep doing this cycle over and over.... look at the inside 50s count, they just TROUNCES the Pies in this area, the Pies defense IS ALWAYS under pressure, they are too busy avoiding the Cats own PRESS to even get it OUT and into ATTACK.


Cats tactic is... Extra MEN on the Pies Forward 50, Quick Kicks through the Corridor, BOMB it deep and QUICK into the forward 50 to 20, Cats midfield create their own Forward PRESS. Pies Midfield players + Half Forward Defensive players are SCREENED OFF by the extra Cats players, hence it creates a couple of Cats players OPEN around the forward 30-40 meter mark, when they get it, they DO NOT DANCE around or look for another player, they AIM to score..... they do this ENOUGH times, to kick a winning score against the Pies.




Pies' PRESS isnt wonderful magic button which flattens the Cats once pressed, not this year anyways.

The PRESS require 100% effort and 100% run effort for it to work, the CONS are, if they fail to score even a POINT, then the Cats are on the attack and have an advantage up forward...

The KEY for the PIES is, they need to AIM for the GOAL once they are in scoring distance, because REGISTERING a POINT is CRUCIAL to implementing their own PRESS at their forward PRESS.... What I've notice is, the Pies try to look for GOOD set shots, they dont attempt to aim for the goal unless its a good kick, but Cats have extra men in the forward 50 which gets them the contested ball.


LAST SEASON...
Pies were BASHED by the media for not kicking straight enough, but in contrary, kicking those 1 pointers allow them to implement their FORWARD PRESS better, which in turns allow them extra shots at goals after scoring a pointer.



Against the Cats... Pies simply MUST ATTACK, KICK those 1 pointers if you MUST, this allows them to set up their FORWARD PRESS. A 1 pointer is ALWAYS BETTER than Cats winning the ball back where they are quick to setup an ATTACK... atleast when they are kicking IN form the goal area, PIES PRESS structure is SET and they can prevent Cats from having clean possessions.

 

[PieNSauce]

Most people have caught up with me in understanding that the press was never going to be what we relied on to back up this year, sure the press is still going to be used but its not the be all and end all of our strategy.

You only have to look at our season and the strategies used, the press served its purpose in snaring us a flag - probably a year before we were ready for it - and in forcing other teams to come up with a counter.

But its obvious that we've moved on from the press and concentrated on player management and preservation for most of the season so far. It was always going to be this way as I posted pretty early in the year, no tactic lasts forever and any team who relies on a revolutionary tactic to win multiple flags is doomed to disappointment.

Onward an upward boys and girls

SIDE BY SIDE

notjustalittleupourselves.jpg

 

[jonbe54]

Lol Pie I'm no football guru so its nice to get the jump on some m8.

Seriously it has been obvious for a long time that the press wasn't going to win us 2 flags by itself. I'm amazed at how many still think we can get by with the press, reading between the lines of Mick's various pressers it seems obvious that he never expected it to.

 

[PieNSauce]

Lol Pie I'm no football guru so its nice to get the jump on some m8.

Seriously it has been obvious for a long time that the press wasn't going to win us 2 flags by itself. I'm amazed at how many still think we can get by with the press, reading between the lines of Mick's various pressers it seems obvious that he never expected it to.

lol. I'm not disagreeing with you, I was just amused at your positioning yourself as the leader! I know some of the younger members here might have been all excited at the suggestion that Collingwood has some infallible poison arrow but I don't think anyone with an ounce of smarts ever subscribed to that theory.

 

[jonbe54]

lol. I'm not disagreeing with you, I was just amused at your positioning yourself as the leader! I know some of the younger members here might have been all excited at the suggestion that Collingwood has some infallible poison arrow but I don't think anyone with an ounce of smarts ever subscribed to that theory.

We all get rushes of blood to head sometimes Pie

Well that leaves out the media and most of the benighted collected wisdom of the so-called football geniuses in AFL house for a start

Seriously though there are still a significant number of people waiting for the steam roller to start up

I believe we'll still use the press of course but in a restricted and targeted way as part of an overall strategy.

The press has served its purpose time to move on eh?

 

[larrikan]

Wow ...lots of Cats love here on our board ..lol...mark my words...they have been overhyped due to a tactically irrelevant meaningless round 24 clash. We were $1.30 to $3.00 favorites to win that game. We are still that much better than them. They had a 20 minute spurt last week that broke an injury riddled Hawks. Its a joke that some guys here rate their forwardline better than our backline. Your kidding right - you think Pods and Hawkins will bother us if the ball is bombed into them on GF day. I say let the old and young Geelong bodies get smashed as they will in the Prelim and see how they come up against our pressure and intensity. Seriously, no press??? 12 goals to 9 last week. Our defensive/forward pressure was brilliant. So was WC. MM was seriously happy with last weeks performance. The 1%s were back in a big way last week. If, as expected it's a Pies/Cats GF then bring on the pretenders. I am not being arrogant just realistic about where we stand right now. What are you guys basing the Cats gameplan on...surely not the round 24 or round 8 clash? Remove the round 24 game and they come into the finals with average form. 2 more games to go. Lets see how the Cats hold up, if they do.

 

[PieNSauce]

We all get rushes of blood to head sometimes Pie

Well that leaves out the media and most of the benighted collected wisdom of the so-called football geniuses in AFL house for a start

Seriously though there are still a significant number of people waiting for the steam roller to start up

I believe we'll still use the press of course but in a restricted and targeted way as part of an overall strategy.

The press has served its purpose time to move on eh?

Ha ha. Totally agree. My comment BTW wasn't intended to be anything more than a light hearted dig! Yes you do have to love the passion of those who still believe Collingwood has its secret weapon concealed somewhere in the depths of the Westpac Centre. Unfortunately there is clearly no secret weapon, just the knowledge that if we put our best 22 on the park and stick to our "structures" we are as good a chance as anyone. Geelong fans may believe they have a psychological advantage but if you discount the dead rubber for what it was there doesn't seem to be a lot between the sides and I'd be pretty sure the Geelong brains trust knows it.

 

[lgarth80]

A week's rest will certainly help us implement a press.

If we play Geelong again (let's hope we do) then I think a strange but effective tactic will be playing Goldsack on Scarlett. Don't be surprised if this happens.

The key Cat defenders against us are Wojcinski and Enright because of their pace and hardness at the contest.

No way Mackie will get time and space (if he does he will cut us up).

Taylor and Lonergan will be too busy watching out for other forwards to be too aggressive in their own play.

In the centre I feel that if Jolly-Brown can neutralise Cox-Lynch-NicNat to roughly 50% in the centre square, and better than 60% around the ground, then they might be able to do it against Ottens-West.

That said, I'm a long way ahead of things. Let's get back to one week at a time. Hawthorn or Sydney both present players who have hurt us before that we need to be wary of.

 

[rose jam]

We should start planning for West Coast in the GF

 

[rustyg70]

Lets just get there first.

 

[wcesteve]

On the other side of the coin steve your mob gave us one hell of a fight, 100 tackles in a losing side is absolutely sensational. I believe midfield pressure was huge on both side with our mids forced to bomb it a fair bit as well.

You held our twin towers bloody well even considering the ball wasn't coming in great and I think it was mainly due to our big spread of goal kickers that we got through as well as we did.

Hope you guys can continue the good work over there, understand and agree that the Cats on form should get through but would love to see you guys take it up to them and finish the season with heads held high. This has the side effect of making them as sore as you did us with your great tackling!

Yeah it was a good effort and wce did better then what alot of people thought . Pie's/eagles game from what it looked like on the tv had the most pressure out of all the finals game i rekon . Pie's ball movement was quicker/cleaner then ours for longer periods of the game. Back to back is hard but pie's have put themselves in a position to do it.

 

[BuckleysBrigade]

HUN is printing we'll have our best team in... I suppose this doesn't take into account players still being a little underdone, but LOOKING GOOD!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...iers-in-top-form/story-e6frf9jf-1226137224902

 

[upnsmoke]

Wow ...lots of Cats love here on our board ..lol...mark my words...they have been overhyped due to a tactically irrelevant meaningless round 24 clash. We were $1.30 to $3.00 favorites to win that game. We are still that much better than them. They had a 20 minute spurt last week that broke an injury riddled Hawks. Its a joke that some guys here rate their forwardline better than our backline. Your kidding right - you think Pods and Hawkins will bother us if the ball is bombed into them on GF day. I say let the old and young Geelong bodies get smashed as they will in the Prelim and see how they come up against our pressure and intensity. Seriously, no press??? 12 goals to 9 last week. Our defensive/forward pressure was brilliant. So was WC. MM was seriously happy with last weeks performance. The 1%s were back in a big way last week. If, as expected it's a Pies/Cats GF then bring on the pretenders. I am not being arrogant just realistic about where we stand right now. What are you guys basing the Cats gameplan on...surely not the round 24 or round 8 clash? Remove the round 24 game and they come into the finals with average form. 2 more games to go. Lets see how the Cats hold up, if they do.

You said it yourself, Cats turned a 2 point margin to a 31 point win within a quarter...

They have the ability to SCORE in BURST, then CLAMP down defensively.



Remember that 8-9 goals in Round 24 that the Pies couldnt even answer back?

Well thats Cats capability.


And why are you using the Gambling ODD makers as basis of who will win the flag?

That $1.30 is based on Pies earlier form... The last last 2 months they have looked vulnerable, whilst Cats have looked inconsistent but their BEST is incredible.

Most Pies fans giving props to Cats simply see them as a good challenger, whilst being realistic on Pies based on what we see on TV and during the games.... the intensity and energy/effort is not as high as last year.

Again, I'm sure many of us would LOVE to be proven wrong, but as of right now, just giving props to Cats and being realistic on Pies chances.