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Playing "Unsociable" or "Mongrel" Footy

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OzSparrow

OzSparrow

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Aug 30, 2006
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Interesting comment from Wallsy on "On the Couch" last night where he believes that Hawthorn plays "unsociable" or so-called "mongrel" footy (it was in the context of the Lewis-Pratt incident).

I know I have responded to some other threads on this board in relation to the AFC's inability (or unwillingness) to employ similar tactics in games (especially when they are being used against us).

Notwithstanding other contrary comments, I still firmly believe that a lot of success is gained by those clubs that employ this type of footy.

Given we play the Mayblooms down in Tassie this weekend, and coming off similar tactics employed by the Scum on the weekend, I really hope and pray that Craigy doesn't continue to allow our players to be used as training bags on the weekend.

What do others feel about Wallsy's comment and I ask this simple question:

Can a team (such as the AFC) retain its hard-fought and hard-won RESPECT whilst employing these types of tactics?
 
Given the fact that we have been more than competitive over the last three years, i cannot fathom why you are so keen for us to turn 'mongrel'. Who are these teams that have had success over the last few years with these tactics? Sydney? No. Geelong? No. WC? No. Hawthorn are at serious risk to losing their bottle unless their players learn controlled aggression, it's their current weakness not strength. We are successful playing a different brand of football, why change it?
 
Well considering they thought that Port played "old style tough footy" then there is no hope. :rolleyes: Is this the sort of footy people want to see? Honestly?

Personally I'd rather we never played "mongrel" "unsociable" or "old style tough footy". Teams only resort to this style of footy when they don't think they can win playing honestly. We are better than that.
 
Do you classify Brizzy as having played this brand of footy? Or, do you believe that they played with "controlled aggression".

My point has continually been aimed at stating that I do not believe we should allow ourselves to be run roughshod over with the risk of either losing the game (due to lack of cattle, which almost happened on Sunday) or, even worse, having players sidelined for long periods as a result of "mongrel" acts.

If a team lines up on you and knows full well that you will "fight fire with fire", will they not think twice about lighting the match?
 

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OzSparrow said:
Do you classify Brizzy as having played this brand of footy? Or, do you believe that they played with "controlled aggression".

My point has continually been aimed at stating that I do not believe we should allow ourselves to be run roughshod over with the risk of either losing the game (due to lack of cattle, which almost happened on Sunday) or, even worse, having players sidelined for long periods as a result of "mongrel" acts.

If a team lines up on you and knows full well that you will "fight fire with fire", will they not think twice about lighting the match?
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I hear what you are saying, but we will do ourselves a disservice by playing a brand completely out of whack with our normal game plan. What do you suggest as a game plan for this week? How would you instruct our players?
 
I don't like mongrel play - period. I don't care who employs it and it's not a brand of footy I personally want to watch. You get teams where they have the odd "mongrel" player, but IMO there are few teams that play this type of footy. Ive never considered Hawthorn as one of them in terms of how they play us.

To me, the way Port played on the weekend - and they don't always play like that - was self indulgent, and unrewarding footy. Cornes kicks a goal in the 2nd and mouths to the Crows faithful to "____ you". Half a dozen of our players received brutal bumps/tackles. But Port lost in the end. If they'd spent their energy focusing on the footy instead of the man, they could very well have won that game.
 
There's a difference between playing dirty or mongrel football and playing hard. As I said on another thread, it's time our big blokes handed out some legitimate whacks. There are unwritten laws in this game, and one of them is that if a team is simply prepared to cop whatever is dished out, it will be dished out in spades. I'm not advocating a mongrel act like Thomas' on Basset or even something as low as what happened to Jericho, but we have to make sides aware that we have a physical side to our game.
The Hawks will have noted well what went on at the Showdown and my guess is that they will employ similar tactics against us. They are better at it than the soft side we played Sunday, a much tougher and harder unit. Unless we let sides know subliminally that there will be consequences for smacking a Crows player after he disposes of the ball, or before he receives it as happened Sunday, then we run the risk of having our season completely derailed by injuries or just plain sore bodies too damaged to go at full pace.
Whack 'em back, there's no room in contact sport for being nice.
You want to know about sides that have succeeded by being feared by the opposition? Look at the Hawthorn and Richmond sides in their golden periods. Check out the Port Magpies in their prime.
 
No, we won't be playing like that, not while Neil Craig continues to be coach (A very long time) and I like it that way. I don't want to see our players acting like scum, and getting reported every week, no thank you. I'm quite happy with winning.

Knocking down players behind or in the play is neither tough, nor courageous. Playing on and winning after taking those hits is tough and courageous.

I'd rather the crows be tough and courageous, play the ball not the man rather than be useless snipers, their cheap tactics might work against the weaker sides and get them a couple of wins, but other than that it doesn't get them much, especially not respect.

Because I can assure you that Port Adelaide players would have felt a hell of alot worse after the final siren went than any or Basset, Jericho or Thompson did. Petty thuggery isn't part of the Adelaide Crows now, and I hope it isn't in the future.
 
I think that Walls has latched onto a comment that Nathan Buckley made during the match and decided to adopt it without much thought.

True, Lewis was stupid giving a love tap that achieved nothing besides giving him another week out and Osbourne was lucky to get away with his rough play but it truly isn't indicative of how the Hawks have been playing.

The team is definitely harder than it was a few years ago (not difficult I know) but it isn't like the team are sniping all day or anything.

The worry is that a player like Lewis let himself get sucked into the verbal stuff that the Roos were dishing out. I don't believe that Adelaide are big on that stuff like the Roos are.

Looking forward to a good game - I doubt that it will be an "unsociable" one.
 
Vince Van Mackay said:
No, we won't be playing like that, not while Neil Craig continues to be coach (A very long time) and I like it that way. I don't want to see our players acting like scum, and getting reported every week, no thank you. I'm quite happy with winning.

Knocking down players behind or in the play is neither tough, nor courageous. Playing on and winning after taking those hits is tough and courageous.

I'd rather the crows be tough and courageous, play the ball not the man rather than be useless snipers, their cheap tactics might work against the weaker sides and get them a couple of wins, but other than that it doesn't get them much, especially not respect.

Because I can assure you that Port Adelaide players would have felt a hell of alot worse after the final siren went than any or Basset, Jericho or Thompson did. Petty thuggery isn't part of the Adelaide Crows now, and I hope it isn't in the future.
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I suggest you read my post again,and this time try to understand it.
 
beartoo said:
I suggest you read my post again,and this time try to understand it.
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How do you suggest our players return fire without stooping to these low acts? The fact is, if you fight fire with fire you get a crap ugly game. If you fight fire with class and integrity, you win in the end.
 
beartoo said:
I suggest you read my post again,and this time try to understand it.
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I suggest you take your own advice, because I don't see where I was actually responding or talking to you, smartarse.

I was responding to the thread, and you see this quote thing I've done here, well you see my post below yours, I didn't do it there and some say that is an indication of whether or not someone is responding to a post, I believe its called a quote reply or something. Maybe you should invest in some education to help better understand when someone is talking to you or not.

edit:

Oh and I can't read your post again because I didn't read it a first time, I read the first line and knew it was garbage so stopped.
 
OzSparrow said:
Interesting comment from Wallsy on "On the Couch" last night where he believes that Hawthorn plays "unsociable" or so-called "mongrel" footy (it was in the context of the Lewis-Pratt incident).

Given we play the Mayblooms down in Tassie this weekend, and coming off similar tactics employed by the Scum on the weekend, I really hope and pray that Craigy doesn't continue to allow our players to be used as training bags on the weekend.
Click to expand...

Hi mate,
Called be biased, but I really dont think Hawks will target crows players. I feel the Kangas targetted our guys, knowing they would drop their bundle and retaliate, which they did.
 

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I don't want to see our players playing like scum. I want them to be proud of the guernsey, and embody terms like "honor" and "sportsmanship".


I mean how can a power supporter be proud of their club after a display like Sunday Night?

There's a difference between hard football and playing like a bunch of crims.
 
Coopers said:
I don't want to see our players playing like scum. I want them to be proud of the guernsey, and embody terms like "honor" and "sportsmanship".


I mean how can a power supporter be proud of their club after a display like Sunday Night?

There's a difference between hard football and playing like a bunch of crims.
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Ah, well. At the end of the day we won. If their players get reported/suspended it is of no benefit to us.

It will be interesting to see if they try the same tactics this week. I am sure that Brogan will keen to try his lucky against Brown.
 
OzSparrow said:
Do you classify Brizzy as having played this brand of footy? Or, do you believe that they played with "controlled aggression".

My point has continually been aimed at stating that I do not believe we should allow ourselves to be run roughshod over with the risk of either losing the game (due to lack of cattle, which almost happened on Sunday) or, even worse, having players sidelined for long periods as a result of "mongrel" acts.

If a team lines up on you and knows full well that you will "fight fire with fire", will they not think twice about lighting the match?
Click to expand...
I think great Brisbane team was a classic example of a team that played with controlled aggression. They had the tough players that no one would dare pick on in Brown and Voss but once they cleaned up their act in actually controlling their aggression and channeling it in the right direction, they went on to great things.

Its not being tough belting someone behind play, running past the ball to take someone out and having only eyes for the man.

Port tried to emply these tactics against us twice now. In their dream final (but not to this magnitude) and on sunday. Both times they came off second best. Both times they came out looking really stupid. It shows great courage to not get sucked into this little game and just focus your energies on what needs to be done rather than look for a payback.

I remember a showdown a few years ago when Josh Carr got under Roo's skin and Roo went nuts trying to flatten him every chance he got. Roo got benched by Ayres (and rightly so) and we went on to lose the game because we got sucked into mind games.

Teams might try those tactics on us because they think that might unsettle our kids but we have shown that we are not fazed by that. And the teams will eventually realise that those sort of tactics actually give us more determination to win the game. Teams emplying those tactics against us are becoming aware that all it does is drives us even further to go out and win at all costs. Its that stubborness and resiliance that is of greater value than being a mongrel on the footy field.

Discipline, courage, resiliance and heart will win you more games than it loses. It would have been so easy for our team to get sucked in against Port and look to pay them back but I am so proud of them for using this in the right manner and directing their aggression at being first to the ball and winning the game rather than getting even.

I tuned in to 5AA at half time and they spoke to David Noble and he said that he has never seen the boys more fired up and determined than he did during that half time and that gave me confidence that we will give it everything we have to win. Thats what real champions are made off. Picking players of yields no results. Keeping your cool in heated situations is a proven formula for success.
 
flukeyluke said:
Hi mate,
Called be biased, but I really dont think Hawks will target crows players. I feel the Kangas targetted our guys, knowing they would drop their bundle and retaliate, which they did.
Click to expand...

Cheers Luke

I also do not believe that the Hawkers will stoop to the level employed by the Alberton sewerage farmers on the weekend.

I followed Hawthorn for 20 years before the AFC came into the comp and they are still my "second" side.

I love your style of play and was at the Dome for last year's gut-wrenching semi at the "Buddy Show".

This weekend is all about payback for kicking us out last year and should, hopefully, be played in the true spirit of the game (if we can get our bruised bodies back up in time, that is).

Should be a great game and a true test for where the AFC is at so far in 2008.

Cheers
Sparrow
 
I have no problems if we had one or two players on our list with a touch of mongrel in their make-up but my definition of a mongrel footy type player is someone who goes in very hard at the player with the ball as well as going in hard at the ball itself, in other words a player that makes players of opposition teams very wary of.

Not someone who goes around king hitting in the play or behind the play.
 
DO: ferociously attack each contest fairly, make the ball your priority, tackle as hard as passible within the rules, chase, shepherd, smother, run hard in numbers, protect your teammate within the rules, stand-up for your teammate without giving away frees.

DON'T: forget the ball and hit the man, shirtfront guys running back with the flight with no intention of getting the ball yourself, spear tackle, hip and shoulder opposition heads, 'celebrate' each goal by swearing at the crowd (and making an absolute dick of yourself in the media before finals!), answer back umpires and give away stupid 50s thru lack of discipline, back away from any physical contest by shirking the issue and preferring to give away a certain free instead of taking the tackle.

Pretty clear to me where 100% tough, aggressive yet disciplined and sportsmanlike footy ends and where weak, cowardly, undisciplined footy begins. The dichotomy was pretty obvious on sunday.

All clubs have had some isolated incidences in their history they are not proud of, but few clubs take pride in aiming to win primarily through thuggery and consistently as a club being front-runners who paradoxically only hit 'from behind'.
 

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Essendon and Brisbane were past examples of a good use of Unsociable football. I thought it was a pretty important part of a succesful team, untill I saw Geelong last season. By no means do they go out of their way to intimidate, or overly fly the flag. They let their football do the talking.
 

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