Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)
- Thread starter Cesoir
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Does it matter, singing was never banned here
Dancing isn't banned anymore either btw...
So not the same rules right now
Your definition of “facts” must differ from those of normal people.
Fearmongering?
Open your eyes and see what is happening in the east and what has happened around the world.
When you are talking about billions of people even very small percentages mean that millions of people get affected.
The real fearmongers are the antivaxxers with their falsehoods and conspiracy theories.
- Jul 20, 2014
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I'm not an antivaxxer, I have consistently encouraged vaccination as it would show the way out of this massive overreaction. Now we are mainly vaccinated it's you bed wetters and panic merchants that want to move the goalposts that are the problem, not the realists that have been consistent all along
You are not a realist. You are a denier of reality.
Massive overreaction?
On what do you base this? Millions dead not enough for you? Many millions more sick for long periods of time, the collapsing economy as a result of these sick and over burdened health system.
There were morons like you in charge in some countries early in the pandemic. Brazil was a disaster, thanks to the machismo of Bosonaro who said the same s**t as you. Russia tried to pretend things were as normal, and threw dissenting doctors out of hospital windows as it progressed. Trump suggested that we reduce testing so that the numbers aren’t so bad, which appears to be Morrison aim now.
Vaccination will help us get out of this pandemic. But we will still need to flatten the curve (remember that term?) as the borders are gradually opened.
- Jul 20, 2014
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Thanks for proving what a massive overreaction is,without me having to do lift a finger.
It might not be Godwin's law, but trump, bolsinaro and putin in one paragraph will do nicely
Jesus there is some terrified people on this thread. I genuinely feel sorry for those of you making such wildly exaggerated and outlandish claims.
one of my favourites is when people who haven’t left WA in 2 years or more are busy telling us how horrendous and awful it is here on the east coast.
well I’m in Melbourne and can assure you its all bullshit. People are going about their lives as normal, yeah covid is circulating but there’s no mayhem or society disentegrating as some whole have you believe.
I switched on the tv today to watch the cricket in the supposed hellhole that is NSW and I sawterrified people desperately trying to survive the covid apocalypse in NSW like zombies in a horror movie actually no that’s not what I saw, instead it was 30,000 odd fans having an amazing time watching an ashes test match. Perrotet might not be everyone’s cup of tea but he was the one politician that gave hope to tens of thousands of Australian citizens that were shamefully locked out of their OWN COUNTRY for far far longer than should ever have been deemed acceptable, in the process destroying thousands of relationships (including my own) and causing hardship and pain for so many Aussie families. If we were still relying on the Mark McGowans and his ilk, we would still probably only have celebrities and millionaires able to comes and go from the country as they pleased, which was the case up until 1 November.
one of my favourites is when people who haven’t left WA in 2 years or more are busy telling us how horrendous and awful it is here on the east coast.
well I’m in Melbourne and can assure you its all bullshit. People are going about their lives as normal, yeah covid is circulating but there’s no mayhem or society disentegrating as some whole have you believe.
I switched on the tv today to watch the cricket in the supposed hellhole that is NSW and I saw
The numbers don’t lie. Just because you are alright jack-eroo, doesn’t mean everyone is.
Do you know which level of government is responsible for arrivals into Australia? It’s not Perrotet and it’s not McGowan. It’s also not state governments’ jobs to construct safe Quarantine buildings, but they had to do something. Let it rip federal politicians would have wiped out 2-5% of the population. Clearly the other 95% would have gone to the SCG to watch the cricket.
Nice one, blaming a harmless little virus for destroying your relationship. Families were separated yes. But a whole lot were dumbasses who didn’t move when they had an opportunity, and became very self entitled about their self imposed misfortune. Anyone with half a brain could see in early 2020 that it was time to get back to where you want to be. And heaps of people did. And a fair few people traveled overseas after that.
Look, if you want to ally yourself with their s**t views you can expect someone to point it out.
Taylor
Community Leader
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The total global death rate of people who have caught it is 2%. That's just the reported cases and deaths though, I think we can assume that the case numbers unreported greatly surpass the death numbers unreported since the not dying are at least 50x more common which takes the percentage even lower.
You're being more than a tab hyperbolic suggesting 2 to 5% of the population would die from it.
Our own death numbers pre omicron were less than half the global average too. They are set to plummet even further.
We need only protect our 75+ population and our pre-existing condition younger with vaccines and almost all the deaths will be avoided since that is where almost all, well into the high 90s of percentage, are.
The vaccines have proven so effective at lowering the case severity that young people can test positive, show no symptoms and recover in under a week.
Protect the vulnerable by getting them vaccinated. Everyone else can catch it and recover for significantly greater future immunity, creating herd immunity for the vulnerable, since reinfection rates are between zero and 0.7% based on pre omicron studies with hospitalisation and deaths from those numbering in the handful out of almost 15,000.
The issue then will be that we spent billions of bulk vaccines we didn't end up needing.
Read what I said instead of twisting it with weasel words as usual Taylor.
I stand by the statement. Where let it rip was allowed, that figure is close to correct. In Brazil’s case the regional governors slowed down Bosanaro’s efforts to spread the disease as quickly as possible. Morrison, like Boris was talking about Herd Immunity early on. Johnston saw the light a bit too late, but it’s was the premiers who took over in Australia.
Now we have vaccines. But the omicron virus spreads much much more quickly, even if it is slightly less virulent than the original strain. It also evades the vaccine easily, unless people have their third booster shot, and even then the vaccine is 75% effective rather than the 90-95% it was with Alpha.
The WA government needs to get as many people with a booster shot as possible before opening and as many children with double vaccinations as possible before opening. I don’t know what that number is. I am sure the state government will have modelled the figures with a slightly less virulent and much more contagious virus.
I have no doubt they will let the virus in. But unlike NSW, where all restrictions were lifted at once, I think the borders being opened will see the reimposition of a lot of restrictions such as facemasks and venue limits, And they will last for months. The aim will be to flatten the curve below the limit of what the hospitals can cope with.
And this morning, an article on the abc examines the consequences for Western Australia of opening up.
www.abc.net.au
An isolated WA has prepared for 300 daily COVID cases. It's likely to get more than 3,000
Back in November, WA was bracing for a little over 300 cases a day at the height of an outbreak, but those numbers seem hopelessly out of date with the arrival of Omicron.
While partly true, the virus spreads so quickly that even those with mild symptoms are rightly isolating, leaving huge amounts of people in isolation, thus unable to work.
Small businesses can't open and have no support this time.
Find it weird people bag NSW relentlessly and give Victoria a free pass, we have basically let it rip here as well and 75% of people I know currently have COVID including myself. We currently have little to no restrictions with 25k cases a day which would be 1/2 of the real numbers. Almost like all governments are s**t.
Yep depends which side of politics you’re aligned to, Mcgowan has been the messiah in WA so far we’ll see how he handles it when we open up.
Billions? As far as I know we're still 700 million cases off of 1 billion. Are these your "normal people" facts?
Bolded makes me facepalm. I do laugh when people living in VIC say NSW gave them COVID, yep NSW is responsible for the global pandemic that has hit Australia and was always going to hit Australia.
Going to be hard for people in WA to blame one side or the other given the entire country is having massive outbreaks at the moment. I can get around blaming ScoMo for everything though.
The World’s population is billions. By the time this disease becomes endemic, the majority of the world will have been exposed. I thought it was obvious I was talking about what will or could happen. It was a comment about huge numbers, even with low percentages.
So the same as the flu then?
If u looking at the numbers and scale it up to 1 billion cases the flu kills millions too...
Unfortunately that's just not true.
Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that 290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes every year worldwide.
COVID-19 vs. the Flu
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As far as I can work out, there are two places in the world still pursuing an elimination strategy, China and WA. You seem to think anyone pointing out that this strategy is extreme, is the same as saying covid is a myth and a conspiracy, and so a supporter of right wing nuts. I have never said anything like that. For the record, again, here is what I have said over and over, to try and balance some of the nonsense said on here:
1. The vast majority of people that get covid will be fine.
2. The health system is in good shape and not about to collapse, not even close to it.
3. All health interventions have to be costed, based on the cost per QALY saved. In this respect, the economic cost of what has been spent on avoiding covid is the greatest mis-spend in health economic history. For example there are 300000 children under the age of 5 dying annually of malaria that is largely preventable. How many QALY would have been saved at a fraction of the cost of the debt accumulated to control covid by mosquito control measures? Don't care about African children, too far away from you in WA? Think of the myriad of health problems here at home this money could otherwise have been spent on.
4. Totalitarianism of any type is dangerous. Public health measures to fight covid are necessary but as much as possible these should be based on education and as least as possible on mandates. Curfews for example served no public health purpose, they were just there to make life easier for police.
I keep commenting on here because I keep reading doomsday scenarios and advocacy for measures that are way disproportionate, based on points 1-4. The premiers of NSW, SA, Vic and Qld are not mad extremists, they are doing what many liberal governments across the world are doing. The premier of WA belatedly in my opinion is now going to move away from China's strategy and towards the mainstream.
Thank you this time for not using the terms “fear-mongers”, “bedwetters”, “panic merchants”, “nervous nellies” or “massive overreaction”. These terms have until now been in most of your posts, lending you to have the appearance of a conspiracy theorist on this issue. It didn’t help that you also claimed that long-Covid is imaginary.
1. Vast majority could mean anything from 90% to 99%. I think 95% would be the proportion of people with no long lasting effects from the virus. When the virus is universal, that would mean more than a million Australians with long lasting effects from the virus (death or debilitation). 99% would still mean hundreds of thousands with long term effects.
2. The health system in NSW is not in good shape. Nor Victoria if you check Crankyhawk ‘s updates. We need to reduce the numbers of Covid patients on any one day as much as possible. It would be much better if WA slowly allows the Omicron variant to spread.
3. Your waddabout the kids of Africa deflection is Morrisonesque. Dishonest and self serving. The economic cost of doing little to nothing would have been much greater than it has been
4. Totalitarianism is dangerous. This is not totalitarianism. It is a proportional response to a major health challenge, that our constitution allows for. Curfews were a response to pressure on police being able to control public movement, which was certainly a public health measure.
Covid zero was an excellent plan agreed to by all premiers in Australia, and begrudgingly agreed to by the PM. It enabled our economy to recover and act close to normal. It worked despite failures in border control until the NSW premier failed to react in time to prevent wide spread across the eastern seaboard. This was despite her “gold standard” health system. It was nothing to do with China, and didn’t employ the same methods.
McGowan is the only premier still following the plan agreed to at National Cabinet. He has said he will open up when vaccination levels make it comparatively safe to do so. Whatever happens he will get criticised for opening too early or opening too late. I just hope he does it differently to NSW.
Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
Just a minor point I’m not sure covid zero was agreed on. I remember suppression being the target then many states found elimination.
Yes you are right. The best way to suppress is to have no cases.
