Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Purple_Turtle]

Feel free to post a better one.

Sure, a definition of socialism from Oxford Dictionary.

1. A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

1.1. Policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.

1.2.(in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

 

[stax on the mull]

The Ideologies go further back than that.
Margaret Sanger started off what would become Planned Parenthood in the US in the 1910s to
cull the number of blacks in the US.
This type of thinking along with weeding society (killing off the mentally impaired etc.) was popular
with the intellectual left.

Next you'll tell me that slavery was an invention of the "left" too.

 

[stax on the mull]

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

The Covid figures can be tracked here.

499,987 Coronavirus cases in Australia - COVID Live

ICU, Ventilator numbers and hospitizations in each state. ICU numbers keep going up by about 20-30 per day in NSW. Its hard to tell whether that's one lot of short stay patients being replaced by another slighty bigger batch every few days but the rise is fairly steady, but at this stage not dramatic - although the numbers have doubled in the last week.

From the WA point of view, I think the Qld numbers would be the most relevant to us, as they've had a similar approach to WA keeping out any rampant spreading of the delta variant prior to omicron and have a similar rate of vaccination.

 

[Spitty_the_alpaca]

Ms Sanderson announced the easing of some restrictions, but said masks would remain until at least 6pm on Friday, when a decision would be made on their continued use.

MASKS STAY: Dire warning Omicron may already be here

Masks will remain in Perth and the Peel region until at least Friday as the Health Minister acknowledges the new Omicron strain of COVID-19 may have arrived in the State.

www.perthnow.com.au

 

[bushchook]

Fascism was seen by the conservative political icons of Australia and England as a counter force to Communism. Menzies in Australia had lots of praise for Hitler, and Churchill also initially a admirer of Hilter, Franco and especially Mussolini called Fascism "the antidote to Communism". Below are a couple of examples from Menzies from newspaper clippings as late as 1938. The Churchill stuff is easy to research.

If only fascism was an antidote to communism. The number of people killed by communism in the 20th century makes Hitler look like a rank amateur.

Upwards of 200 million killed by just Mao and Stalin, not counting the rest. Hitler only managed a paltry 7 million or so.

 

[stax on the mull]

If only fascism was an antidote to communism. The number of people killed by communism in the 20th century makes Hitler look like a rank amateur.

Upwards of 200 million killed by just Mao and Stalin, not counting the rest. Hitler only managed a paltry 7 million or so.

Generally the current Nazi extremists will use the figure of 100 million when they post their memes on social media, so I'll give you a Menzies "hats off" for managing to double that number. But I get what you're saying that the Nazis were really the good guys.

 

[freo_leo29]

If the vaccines prevented transmission, then I would wholeheartedly agree with you.
but they don’t, at all. That realisation has slowly but surely dawned on everyone over the last 6 months despite the signs being there early. So many people in sept/Oct were like “oh no, it’s only unvaccinated people that are getting covid now” when there was a steady few hundred cases a day in VIC and NSW. That was totally false - the authorities would never release the case numbers of vaccinated v unvaccinated as they were clearly showing that you could get community transmission fully vaxed. Now we have tens of thousands of fully vaxed cases every day in Australia.

I just think What is the point in mandating a vaccine that has pretty much no impact on transmission a few months after it’s administered? I mean, where does this story end? Will the AFL for example, force every player to be boosted before round 1? Is that even feasible?
I would have liked to see the vaccine mandated for vulnerable and older people and then let they heathy population decide for themselves, as their risk of getting covid and dying is vanishingly small in younger healthy people.

You are missing a critical point, the vaccine mandate has made people who weren't going to get the vax, end up getting it.

This will lower hospitalisations in the future, it was absolutely necessary in this social media misinformation day and age.

Mandates will save lives for those who weren't smart enough to make the informed decision themselves, its as simple as that.

EDIT: and just adding, it will also save strain on our health system which in turn will save other people from possibly passing away from treatable illness

 

[Dockeroo]

You are missing a critical point, the vaccine mandate has made people who weren't going to get the vax, end up getting it.

This will lower hospitalisations in the future, it was absolutely necessary in this social media misinformation day and age.

Mandates will save lives for those who weren't smart enough to make the informed decision themselves, its as simple as that.

Ok well even if I accepts that point, and yes you are right that it probably did get a few extra people across the line to be reluctantly vaxed, why is it still in place now? Surely it is no longer relevant or effective given the vast community transmission amongst fully vaxed? It seems the only purpose of the vax mandate at this rage is to punish the people who didn’t get vaxed and rub their noses in the dirt. At 95% vaxed or thereabouts, isn’t it enough at this stage?
Especially when different rules apply for the rich and famous.
it seems the prevailing mood on social media has a bigger influence in public covid policy than actual facts. That’s never a good place to be.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

If only fascism was an antidote to communism. The number of people killed by communism in the 20th century makes Hitler look like a rank amateur.

Upwards of 200 million killed by just Mao and Stalin, not counting the rest. Hitler only managed a paltry 7 million or so.

Lol, what?

Black Book of Communism would put the figure at about 94 million for the twentieth century, and there's arguments that the figure is too big (although Communism would still sit at killing tens of millions of people.) " Upwards of 200 million killed by just Mao and Stalin" is absurd.

On the other end of the spectrum seven million by Hitler just counts the Holocaust. The number is quite a bit bigger when you include genocide against other groups such as the Romani or Slavs and purges of other "undesirables." Holocaust Museum on their FAQ page also seven million Soviet citizens, three million Soviet prisoners of war, 1.8 million non-Jewish Polish civilians, between 250,000-500,000 Roma, and 250,000 people with physical and mental disabilities. It's also worth noting Hitler was stopped in his tracks, while Stalin and Mao got to carry out their visions. If Hitler actually got to keep Eastern Europe and carry out his plans for a Lebensruam maybe he would have hit that hundred million single-handedly.

 

[mattis117]

Ok well even if I accepts that point, and yes you are right that it probably did get a few extra people across the line to be reluctantly vaxed, why is it still in place now? Surely it is no longer relevant or effective given the vast community transmission amongst fully vaxed? It seems the only purpose of the vax mandate at this rage is to punish the people who didn’t get vaxed and rub their noses in the dirt. At 95% vaxed or thereabouts, isn’t it enough at this stage?
Especially when different rules apply for the rich and famous.
it seems the prevailing mood on social media has a bigger influence in public covid policy than actual facts. That’s never a good place to be.

Just focusing on WA, our health/hospital system is already under considerable strain as evidenced by ambulance ramping. It literally is as simple as the vaccine mandate is one of the only control measures the state government has for reducing the risk of the whole system falling when we open in a month.

It has nothing to do with keeping people alive who are too daft to get vaccinated, it is about ensuring the hospitals have capacity to treat people who have life threatening illness/injury that ISN'T COVID.

 

[Dockeroo]

Unfortunately the facts are that if you're elderly or obese then you should consider vaccination to offer added protection when you catch covid.

It's unfortunate because Australia is the fattest place on earth. So almost everyone qualifies.

Whoa there. You can’t say things like that. Fat people are more likely to get complications from Covid? The PC police would have you locked up and the key thrown away for such a heartless statement.
(absolutely 100% correct though).

 

[Dockeroo]

is 95% enough? I'd say no, try and save as many lives as possible IMO, why remove the rule when the only thing it does is help people?

The ACT is a good example of the folly of this statement.
99% vaxed and Covid still out of control.

would You at least concede that the vaccine was sold as something that greatly reduces transmission, and that nobody expected tens of thousands of fully vaxed transmissions at this stage?

 

[Purple Jesus]

 

[Dockeroo]

Just focusing on WA, our health/hospital system is already under considerable strain as evidenced by ambulance ramping. It literally is as simple as the vaccine mandate is one of the only control measures the state government has for reducing the risk of the whole system falling when we open in a month.

It has nothing to do with keeping people alive who are too daft to get vaccinated, it is about ensuring the hospitals have capacity to treat people who have life threatening illness/injury that ISN'T COVID.

If the WA health system is under as much strain as you say, with Zero covid for the last 2 years, isn’t that a damning indictment of the premier of WA? Why hasn’t he and his government prepared for this over the last 2 years then?

 

[Purple Jesus]

If the WA health system is under as much strain as you say, with Zero covid for the last 2 years, isn’t that a damning indictment of the premier of WA? Why hasn’t he and his government prepared for this over the last 2 years then?

It is damning. But it goes back further than McGowan and the pandemic. It was ignored by the previous government in favour of a bridge, a stadium and Elizabeth Quay.

 

[Square Peg]

I want to stress again, for the benefit of the nervous nellies and those unable to see past their own noses, that in the short term the system will cope in WA when we get COVID.
All health systems worldwide are chronically threatened by an ageing population being kept alive well beyond their biological usefulness by nature defying medicines and treatments, ours is no different. Now obviously this is great and a triumph of human ingenuity but we are likely to be facing some dire decisions into the future that have nothing to do with COVID, they are long term demographic threats as to how much we can afford to spend on the health care of 90+ year olds when the number of 90+ year olds more than triples in the next 50 years. There's some serious reckoning facing us in the future, and about 25 million ostriches in the Aus population that don't want to think about it, from our political leaders down.

 

[mightymouse75]

It is damning. But it goes back further than McGowan and the pandemic. It was ignored by the previous government in favour of a bridge, a stadium and Elizabeth Quay.

Didn't they kick start the new Children's Hospital..? Have a snipe but also give some credit..
2 years of waiting for COVID. Waiting for it to come & I can't see the preparations

 

[Purple Jesus]

Didn't they kick start the new Children's Hospital..? Have a snipe but also give some credit..
2 years of waiting for COVID. Waiting for it to come & I can't see the preparations

And Fiona Stanley but how's that going... lol.

 

[Taylor]

The hospital system will be fine because Medicare services will be suspended for non urgent treatment and after the first month of people rushing the ER with a sniffle because they've been convinced they will die of covid it will settle down.

Remember delta was 1 to 5% hospitalisation depending on age demographic.

Omicron is far less.

You don't need to be tested if you're not symptomatic and don't know anyone who is positive who could have given it to you. You don't need to rush the ER.

 

[Clems Knee]

Didn't they kick start the new Children's Hospital..? Have a snipe but also give some credit..
2 years of waiting for COVID. Waiting for it to come & I can't see the preparations

Hospitals don’t get built in a single (or even two) electoral periods. It takes a government with some foresight to commit to building a new hospital. And a competent one to build it properly…

 

[mattis117]

If the WA health system is under as much strain as you say, with Zero covid for the last 2 years, isn’t that a damning indictment of the premier of WA? Why hasn’t he and his government prepared for this over the last 2 years then?

Maybe, though it is a very complex problem that cannot easily be fixed. As others have said, problems can accumulate over time, I would find it hard to attribute blame to any one person.
The positive is that the issue is recognised and respected. They have three years to develop and execute their solution.

 

[mattis117]

I want to stress again, for the benefit of the nervous nellies and those unable to see past their own noses, that in the short term the system will cope in WA when we get COVID.
All health systems worldwide are chronically threatened by an ageing population being kept alive well beyond their biological usefulness by nature defying medicines and treatments, ours is no different. Now obviously this is great and a triumph of human ingenuity but we are likely to be facing some dire decisions into the future that have nothing to do with COVID, they are long term demographic threats as to how much we can afford to spend on the health care of 90+ year olds when the number of 90+ year olds more than triples in the next 50 years. There's some serious reckoning facing us in the future, and about 25 million ostriches in the Aus population that don't want to think about it, from our political leaders down.

A great philosophical debate! Where must the line be drawn...

 

[TheLastCall]

Maybe, though it is a very complex problem that cannot easily be fixed. As others have said, problems can accumulate over time, I would find it hard to attribute blame to any one person.
The positive is that the issue is recognised and respected. They have three years to develop and execute their solution.

One of the big problems was years of relying on casual nurses and contractors to top up the health system.
When Covid hit, none of the casual got shifts and the contracting companies let their staff go. Many were overseas nurses, so they went home.
When we opened back up the casual workforce had moved on to more reliable jobs.
Now nurses are a premium and we can’t cover sick leave.

This was a problem many years in the making by multiple government. Trying to reduce the public servant health workforce.
The system broke with Covid, but was breaking anyway.

Not investing in health was a known issue. Libs had a chance to cover it, but only built a children’s hospital that had no room to grow and cover a growing population.

 

[Taylor]

There needs to be more money put into training places in hospitals. There has been too much shifting from in hospital training into fake wards in uni.

 

[Purple Jesus]

The hospital system will be fine because Medicare services will be suspended for non urgent treatment and after the first month of people rushing the ER with a sniffle because they've been convinced they will die of covid it will settle down.

Remember delta was 1 to 5% hospitalisation depending on age demographic.

Omicron is far less.

You don't need to be tested if you're not symptomatic and don't know anyone who is positive who could have given it to you. You don't need to rush the ER.

So you're looking at 26,667-133,335 people in hospital based on those numbers. At once. Just with Covid. You have 6,800 private beds and only 927 FTE staff. I can't find any info on public beds but they're tooting a horn about being able to open 500 more over 4 years and 500 = 1 hospital. There's 80 of them (apparently) so let's be generous and say 40,000 beds total.

And these are already at capacity.

Remember as well that the US is seeing 1 million cases per day and the UK is around 200k and we've all had it, some more than once. You guys haven't had it at all.

For eg.