Pondering...

[TheMase]

Well we all know we were shocking last night. What are we to do about it? Wholesale changes won't work. If you throw a heap of kids into the ring they will get slaughtered. It has to be calculated, and it has to be done over time.

I cannot see them making any really significant changes until after the Geelong game. If we lose that, I think there will be a few heads on the chopping block.

If that scenario plays out, I think we may see probably 3-4 changes at best, with a few kids being rotated in and out of the side.

So what happened last night?

Well for starters our skill level is deplorable. I have played for 14 years, and some of the passes they were missing last night, I could have made.
What do they do at training? Do they do pressure drills? Put themselves in game situations? It would seem not as the fundamental errors last night were shocking.

I commented to my friend only a few minutes into the game "we are really flat footed, this is going to be ugly".
Players were standing around. There was very little leading, and when there was it was very pedestrian at best. They did not lead into space, but preferring to lead into pack situations.

There were a number of times when we were going forward, that a good portion of the forwards would lead. This would leave HUGE amounts of space available in the forward 50. Why nobody stayed back and then lead into that space is beyond me. These guys just do not have good football brains, they are not football smart at all and the coaching staff have a lot to answer for.

As for Hall, yes his form is terrible. We kick it to him knowing he will probably spill it at the moment. So if that is the case, why are there not players around Hall WAITING for the spillage? Instead we allow them to cruise out of defense as they please. The forward pressure was less than ordinary last night.

We have too many defensive midfielders, and basically no attacking bar Goodes. We should tag their BEST midfielder, and the rest can feed off Spiders and Jollys taps.

WHY do we leave it until the last quarter to break the game open. To start playing running football? It was already too late by then, and we have ALWAYS looked better playing in that fashion. I just don't get it!

So changes?
Well these are the players that need to really have a think about their place in the team:

Jude Bolton - What does he offer us now? What did he do last night? He rarely gets the hard ball, and if he does he sits on it on the bottom of a pack. That is useless, we need to have the ball moving. He is slow, his skills are poor and he is not even great at getting the contested ball.

Ben Matthews - His tagging ability comes in handy from time-to-time. But his decision making ability is not that of an AFL footballer. He is slow, and last night allowed his opponent to get 10-20 metres on him. Not good enough.

Paul Bevan - People call him courageous. He is just a stupid footballer with no skills. So he goes in hard and gets himself smashed. Wooppee, does it help out the team? No. I cannot even explain why he is in the team. He is not a good defender, has shocking decision making ability and his skills are awful.

Amon Buchanan - Really has not rediscovered his form of recent years. Currently he is a liability. His skills are poor, he is not gaining clearances and is lazy around the packs. Does not chase.

Nic Fosdike - Does not really add a lot to the team. His skills are pretty poor, is purely a uncontested receiver, and is very poor with the 1%ers. I don't think we lose a lot.

Jarryd McVeigh - I said this when he was first drafted, and got ridiculed. He is ordinary. Is soft as butter. Does not like the hard stuff, has ordinary skills 'most of the time' and his decision making leaves a lot to be desired. Like Fosdike we lose nothing with him not in the team.

Ted Richards - He has improved yes. But enough? I am not sure. Certainly has a long way to go. His decision making is poor, his spoiling ability is poor. I can only remember him laying one decent tackle EVER.

Luke Ablett - Very slow. He was one of the players that was half arsed leading into a packed wing. Was pretty poor last night. Perhaps he just needs an attacking role, but something needs to be done.

Sean Dempster - I think he actually just needs a role within the team. I honestly don't think he has one. One day he is tagging, next he is on the wing. He looks a little lost and I think that might be more to do with the coaching staff than himself.

Not all those players will be dropped of course, but all of them need to have a good look at themselves.

I am not sure we have replacements for all of them.

Schmidt MUST stay in the team. He set up most of the play in that last quarter. He is actually a little creative and was able to get runners going past him. He was able to clear a pack. He did it the most cleanly I have seen done this year. He should start games in the middle.

Thoughts?

 

[SWANNIES RULE]

While I agree wholesale changes aren't the answer, changes do need to be made - You can't let them get away with that rabble of a performance last night.

We need a bit more pace in the midfield and around the ground. Guys like Laidlaw, Moore and Phillips all need to be strongly considered for this week. Including Phillips will allow Schneider to move into the midfield where his pace and skill can be better utilised. The form of these 3 in the reserves warrants selections.

Bevan has to go and so does McVeigh.

 

[TheVideoMan]

Thoughts?

Spot Masey. Most of what you wrote is what i am thinking.

We need attacking midfielders atm. We need more grunt, we need class.

I dislike Ben Matthews a lot but he is only there as part of Roosy game plan. He only adds to the game when we play lock down style ala Hawthorn. When we are being ripped open he is badly exposed. Without a new game plan he will continue to be part of the plan. If Roosy restructures the game plan i expect Matthews to be quietly phased out.

Maybe losing our assistants in the past few years is really what is the difference. Maybe Roosy is a tad over rated?

 

[TheVideoMan]

Leo Barry? What do we do with him. I don't see his overall game to be that bad and last night he was trying to get run be he needs to stop hand balling and use his left boot to find loose players up field. But as a key defender he is shot.

Don't play him on a key forward. Maybe play him across half back..he can still add to the team..away from fullback. I just can't believe how much height he gives away and how many times he is left behind by leading forwards.

I say change L Barry and C Bolton around.

 

[Corpuscles]

Mase

I am effn depressed too!

Perhaps a bit of a "cup half full" reflection might help?

Roosey took over when there was internal termoil off field and loss of Kelly Dunks Bayes etc looked grim outside the 8. But he gave as much licence he could to the players to prove themselves. They did and he did.

He got job recruited his hand picked leuitenants and with his defencive background ( btw the best exponent of the subtle push in the back in history) concocted a game plan that reeked of the struggle of less talent but team spirit that was shown through the years by Fitzroy.

He did not have the best list but they all improved it would been hard to dump anyone. They had to make do with holes left by him Dunks Bayes in defence and Kelly Cressa Midfield and Plugger Obrien Mooney in forwards... then for that too work to a GF and Flag is AMAZING! What I am saying is the whole time players led by Stewie and later Kirk gave no room for real critical appraisal.

He knew that what spirit developed got them there not their talent ( Hall Kirk Barry C Bolt all improved massively) and was honest enough to say after that group finishes so might he.

They tried one last shot and avoided wholesale rebuild or bottom out... They still could do it BUT from what we have seen so far this year UNLIKELY.

That strugglestreet mentality only works when you declare yourself the underdog and can get under the radar... the difference is not only do others treat Swans as elite, they have copied parts and worked out how to combat the gameplan. Sheesh can't keep it secret over 3+ yrs!

What I mean is there is a reason why there are a few there that don't deserve to be and why obvious holes have not been filled we ought be grateful for the good times.

I think the main problem is also the coaching mix. Longmire is a forward and we had the best forward set up bar none but now is midfield and they are close to the worse cause he never played it. Blakey never was a decent forward but he his now forward coach!


There will be a shake out and we will have to take some steps back after this year regardless. I agree with a lot of your player assessments but just I admire them too much to criticise but the D DAY of reckoning happened last night .... SLASH & BURN! and plant new CROP!

Phew made me feel a little better. sorry for the rant

 

[legend166]

Just one other little problem I noticed last night, and once again this has to do with skills, half the team can't even kick on their opposite foot. Leo got himself into trouble quite a few times because he was turning onto his left.

 

[krustyman]

the swans were horrible and lucky to lose by less than 20 points. with hall playing the way he is swan will struggle. maybe they needed to put goodes up forward to give them a target.

 

[skipper kelly]

What made Roos such a great player and what makes him such a great coach is his ability to handle pressure. I dont expect any knee jerk reactions from him this week. He will know that this was our worst performance skill wise for many years.

I dont know about others but this group of players has given me great joy over the last 4 years. 2003 1 quarter away from a GF. 2004 didnt quite happen but still played finals. Then 2005 and 2006. If the end is near then so be it but now is not the time to throw in the towel. Part of the success has been picking our best 22 irrespective of age, experience or 'building for the future'. The success has been about playing for now. I am very comfortable with that. Our stars are getting older and if they all finish together and leave a void for a few years then thats the price of going for the ultimate success rather than mediocrity.

No kneejerks. Just pick ourbest 22 players until the time comes when we arent a contender then the rebuilding begins.

Keep the faith chaps. It aint over yet.

 

[RUNVS]

Keep the faith chaps. It aint over yet.

My faith isnt broken. You never know with the Swans. Next week we could play great football and beat Geelong. Its perfectly possible as the Swans have been very inconsistant this season. Collingwood was a low point, Geelong may be a high point. We cant lose hope.

 

[Gun Barrel Straight]

The problem i think is Roos is too scared to mix it up when things arent working early on. Some players say that "what we do works" and Roos' persistance with it. But clearly you could see our gameplan wasn't working at all from the opening bounce, so why did Roos persist with it? Nothing got better at all, at any point in the game.

 

[RUNVS]

The problem i think is Roos is too scared to mix it up when things arent working early on. Some players say that "what we do works" and Roos' persistance with it. But clearly you could see our gameplan wasn't working at all from the opening bounce, so why did Roos persist with it? Nothing got better at all, at any point in the game.

I think Paul Roos needs to completely rethink our 1st quarter tactics as they have been a serious liability to the Swans for a long time now. Matches like West Coast, Essendon and St Kilda would have been won if the Swans started slightly better. Its simply not acceptable for a team to be 30 points behind at the end of the 1st quarter. If it wasnt for our 1st quarter problems we would have won the 2006 flag. In my opinion this is the Swans biggest problem at the moment and is what Paul Roos should be focusing on.

 

[SWANNIES RULE]

It's not knee-jerk. It's common practice to drop players who have been out of form for quite a while. But for some reason McVeigh, Bevan and Mathews are picked week in week out.

 

[robbieando]

Leo Barry? What do we do with him. I don't see his overall game to be that bad and last night he was trying to get run be he needs to stop hand balling and use his left boot to find loose players up field. But as a key defender he is shot.

Don't play him on a key forward. Maybe play him across half back..he can still add to the team..away from fullback. I just can't believe how much height he gives away and how many times he is left behind by leading forwards.

This I agree with this 100%, Leo Barry ISN'T a Key Position and yet Roos and the rest of the coaching staff have been trying to catch that "fart in a bottle" of a game that was Round 10 2004 against St Kilda when he kept Gehrig kickless. Ever since then the belief at the club has been "we don't need another Full Back - we have Leo, look what he did to Gehrig that one time".

He hasn't been the same Leo that worked in tandem with Tadhg in 2003 off Half Back. The Leo of 2007 is producing LESS run out of defence and conceeding MORE goals because of being out of position to his man, outsized or gives away too many soft free kicks because of his size. The club's problem is that while we won a premiership with him at FB, we did NOTHING to try and find a suitable replacement when the time came when it became clear that Leo at Full Back was an option that we could no longer go with, hence we now are faced with the prospect of putting LRT who isn't a FB into the position or doing nothing. Because other than that we only have Jessie White who has the bulk to play the position but we don't have a clue if he is able to play it or Vogels who has only ever played senior footy down forward or off the bench because there are questions over his fitness.

The only other options are kids who are years away from having the bulk to play AFL football, let alone Full Back.

I say change L Barry and C Bolton around.

We do already when Leo gets a few early ones kicked on him and things don't change much. He need a proper replacement at Full Back LONG TERM, so the rest of the defence can play their positions to the best of their ability. Because in the case of C Bolton why rob Peter to pay Paul? Won't change much.

As for the rest of the team. Not much we can do with the Forward Line other than wait for Barry to come good.

Really I see his major issue at the moment is delivery - he is dropping marks that he should take, but I'm betting this season delivery wise the midfielders are kicking worse to him than ever and with the midfield so slow to move the ball on, he can't get in a good position because two or three players drop back into his space thus making it very hard for him to impose himself on matches like he wants to.

The midfield is down this year and some of them need to go so we can bring in quick, skilled by foot, replacements. No point dropping Bevan and then bringing in Crouch. Thats a like for like replacement and won't resolve a thing. I for one would rather see Laidlaw given a chance over Mathews and knowing Crouch will come back into the side in time for Bevan. Another thing I would like to see is the second ruckman rest on the ground in the goal square rather on the bench to take some of the pressure away for Barry and the double/triple teaming he has been getting.

Plus for the love of god Ted Richards you played you best football last year as the spare man in defence who would drop in front of the tall K/P Forward to help out Leo or C Bolton. How about we try that again instead of you just running the ground without anysort of gameplan. Dropping Richards in the hole in defence would help out more than any replacment can. Either Richards can do that or we can drop Richards to the seconds to bring LRT back and have a proper K/P Defender in the team.

So at this moment in time I would drop Bevan and Mathews and bring in Laidlaw and Crouch. Look to use Richards more in the hole in the defence to cut off attacks and have the second ruckman rest up forward to drag a defender away from Barry and free him up. Another move I would make is give Schneider more time in the middle. Of course Grundy goes out for Davis to return (but thats a given)

Looking long term Buchanan and McVeigh are on alert in regards to their positions in the team for when Kennelly returns from injury and Richards likewise for LRT's return to match fitness and form if Richards doesn't return to his role of late last year.

We can turn things around but we need to protect our defence better (ie Richards role), protect Barry better (rest ruckman forward and move the ball on faster and better disposal) and have smarter players in the team (DROP BEVAN).

The next 8 weeks until we meet Collingwood again WILL decide our season. Go 4-4 and we're fighting to keep out season alive over the last two weeks. Go 6-2 (which on paper we should) and we could be fighting for a Top 4 spot. So we have plenty to play for over the next 8 weeks, just have wise up and learn that just because what worked in the past won't work everytime.

We need to start on Plan B this week.

 

[Humph]

One of the most frustrating things is that it’s the better players who aren’t performing, and therefore won’t be dropped. Because we haven’t had many injuries the past few years we’ve had a very settled line-up and each player in that line-up has shown they can do they're good enough to do their job at various stages.

Jack, Grundy, Vogels, Phillips, Doyle, Moore, Laidlaw, Thornton, Brabazon and White all probably at least deserve a chance to show what they can do, but because the rest of the years games will be so important they’ll struggle to get a decent look in again. It will be another wasted season as far as any significant development is concerned because of the weakness of the reserves comp we play in.

Good players up

This season I think Kirk, C.Bolton, Malceski, Everitt, Jolly and O’Keefe have been performing well.
I think Fosdike, Richards, Ablett and Davis are having their best seasons as far as consistency goes and have been contributing.
Schmidt has shown a bit but has been starved of opportunities.
Dempster could smile or at least change his facial expression once in a while but seems to be gaining in confidence.

Great Players down

Hall and O’Loughlin could use some better delivery but are underperforming.
Goodes has been on the rise lately but still can improve more.
Leo Barry and J.Bolton could use a positional change to get back to being their most effective.
Roberts-Thomson and Kennelly have been injured but are as important to our defense as anyone and this has made it tougher for the rest of the backline to cover for their absence.

So who could you drop?

Schneider and Buchanan probably aren’t performing as well as they have in the past but aren’t close to being dropped I wouldn’t have thought.
Mathews and Crouch have the lowest upside for the future because of age and the fact they’re never going to be stars, but are still vital members of this team defensively.
Bevan makes a few blues every now and then, but battles as hard as anyone and effort is one of the things that we seem to be lacking.
McVeigh often gets crucified on the oppositions best midfielder and could probably be given a bit more of a license to do his own thing before he gets written off too much.

We're a victim of our own good luck with injuries, good list and previous good performances. If any of the reserves are proven 1st quarter specialists I say bring em in, but other that I'd back our regular guys to pull it out pretty soon.

Luv Humph.

 

[CirrusC2]

Does anyone remember watching Leo Barry playing as a forward in his reserves days? He was bloody good...

I'd like to see him sent forward (Leppisch / Adam Hunter style) one day when the hyphen is back...

 

[grimlock]

Does anyone remember watching Leo Barry playing as a forward in his reserves days? He was bloody good...

I'd like to see him sent forward (Leppisch / Adam Hunter style) one day when the hyphen is back...

Obviously my memory is failing me because from what I remember he was horrible as a forward. Yes he could leap and take some speccies, but his kicking for goal was horrible.

 

[CirrusC2]

Obviously my memory is failing me because from what I remember he was horrible as a forward. Yes he could leap and take some speccies, but his kicking for goal was horrible.

I seem to also remember that his kicking wasn't the best - don't recall it being *that* bad though. It'd be nice to see him lead again

 

[RogueSwan]

No point dropping Bevan and then bringing in Crouch. Thats a like for like replacement and won't resolve a thing...

Crouch = Bevan, in Bevans dreams!