Poolside Discussions with Charter

[Lance Uppercut]

Lance, a chance encounter is one where you run into an old mate on the street, shake hands, have a quick natter and go on your way. Charter was invited to QLD - brought the whole family, and just happened to be staying in the same hotel as the Essendon Football Club at exactly the same time as their summer training camp. This was no chance encounter. To believe otherwise is ridiculous. Hird may not have known about him being there, but there he was. And they have not one, but two discussions during that day about Dank's proposed drug regime. Essendon have fobbed this "chance meeting" off when it was so much more than that.

Did Hird ask "where's Reidy?" on BOTH occasions? Or did he say to Dank, "Hang on, let's get together later when Doc Reid can be here". Was Doc Reid asked to join the second discussion? I'm guessing he wasn't.

Charter clearly likes Hird and doesn't want to get him in trouble. Didn't Hird write a letter of support for Charter before he was convicted of drug trafficking? Perhaps there's a feeling of a debt that needs repaying?

A chance encounter was how the club referred to it and that's what I'm referring to. If from their perspective that's what it was then its irrelevant whether Dank thought it was.

As for the doc not being at the second meeting, what do you base that on? And the "debt repayment"? Honestly, the hypocrisy of you calling out others for laying out their speculation as fact, when you then go making sweeping assumptions on the truthiness of it, is quite simply breath-taking

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Hird, Charter and sacked sports scientist Stephen Dank discussed a range of substances, including peptides, hormones and vitamins, at the Sheraton Mirage in Surfers Paradise in December 2011, he says.

Dank, Hird, and Charter having in depth discussions about the drug program.

And no Reid.

 

[Tazmania]

Sounds like dank was making claims and they were rightly skeptical about them. Eg "hi fellas look at this big loophole ive found".

Somehow or other though they have come around and taken him on.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Charters not doing a great job at repaying the debt. Every time he speaks it seems there's more questions than answers. His best bet would be to shut up and let Essendon deal with fallout

he's not repaying a debt ffs, he's coming clean about his nefarious past. Sounds like a good thing to me.

 

[jenny61_99]

A chance encounter was how the club referred to it and that's what I'm referring to. If from their perspective that's what it was then its irrelevant whether Dank thought it was.

And I am saying that is either naive or misleading from Essendon. Either way, its not a good look.

As for the doc not being at the second meeting, what do you base that on? And the "debt repayment"? Honestly, the hypocrisy of you calling out others for laying out their speculation as fact, when you then go making sweeping assumptions on the truthindss of it, is quite simply breath-taking

The fact that Hird apparently asked "Where's Reidy?" If that's what he asked in the first conversation, I assume Reid was asked to sit in on the second one. If not, why not? Hird clearly wanted him involved. Didn't he? Yet Charter doesn't provide that clarification. All he said was Hird asked where the Dr. was. Charter surely would have confirmed that the Dr appeared in the second conversation if he had?

As for saying the dept repayment was fact, perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote. It was prefaced by the word PERHAPS. This is in an indication that this is a possible scenario and not the only one.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

'AFL commentator Gerard Healy has claimed that 12 months ago, the Bombers were inquiring at a Gold Coast sports medicine conference about the banned growth hormone GHRP6. He added another club might be involved, but at this stage only Essendon are under investigation.'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-05/essendon-under-investigation-for-supplement-usage/4502286

Dates are close - was this sports medicine conference in the GC the same time as the Essendon get together? Or were Charter and his family brought all that way for a meeting with Hird that they say was a surprise to him?

The Essendon statement isn't a rebuke, btw. It says Hird ran into Charter in 2011, and that's what this story says too. The Hird/EFC version omits any details of this allegedly chance meeting, this Charter version says it was with Dank and set up by him.

I don't understand the idea Hird was tricked into a poolside meeting. It's not like you can't see people from a long way away if you want to avoid them. And either way, once you realise you've been "tricked" into meeting with a now convicted trafficker and you are now the face of an AFL club, why on earth wouldn't you just get well away immediately?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yeah, but you can't really believe anything Dank says. He's rogue! And has been shown to be continually making up bad stuff about the Bombers, so...

I don't know what kind of response you expect? Infantile?

 

[jenny61_99]

I don't understand the idea Hird was tricked into a poolside meeting. It's not like you can't see people from a long way away if you want to avoid them. And either way, once you realise you've been "tricked" into meeting with a now convicted trafficker and you are now the face of an AFL club, why on earth wouldn't you just get well away immediately?

Or better still, why would you conduct a SECOND meeting with him?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

And I am saying that is either naive or misleading from Essendon. Either way, its not a good look.

naive? Do you think AFL clubs have a secret service that vet all other guests at the hotel before they check-in??

The fact that Hird apparently asked "Where's Reidy?" If that's what he asked in the first conversation, I assume Reid was asked to sit in on the second one. If not, why not? Hird clearly wanted him involved. Didn't he? Yet Charter doesn't provide that clarification. All he said was Hird asked where the Dr. was. Charter surely would have confirmed that the Dr appeared in the second conversation if he had?

As for saying the dept repayment was fact, perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote. It was prefaced by the word PERHAPS. This is in an indication that this is a possible scenario and not the only one.

you are making broad assumptions off little to no evidence and presenting them as plausible scenarios. You are doing nothing different to what anyone else has done. Here's a pro-tip: on BigFooty, you can assume that every single post ends in "IMO". Because that's all it is. Easy.

And you're making your somewhat fantastic scenario's out of lines in a Herald-Sun article. It reminds me of something. What is it? Oh yes, the discussion that got me thread-banned "somehow" from the main thread, you remember, the one where you made the same kind of assumption that PERHAPS the reason the dodgy doctor had been busted for ripping off the disabled patient was in fact because of the ASADA investigation somehow, simply because the paper were sexing up the story by talking about his past!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Or better still, why would you conduct a SECOND meeting with him?

there could be any number of reasons. Maybe they got cut off talking because Tania was on the phone about the kids? Or training was about to start? Or Dank thought he hadn't made enough of a sales pitch and got them together again? Or any other infinite amount of possibilities. You and media speculation are quite the couple

 

[jenny61_99]

naive? Do you think AFL clubs have a secret service that vet all other guests at the hotel before they check-in??

Yes naive. In retrospect, with all that we know now, they can sit back and say it was a "chance encounter"? They would be much better off now saying "Clearly Dank orchestrated the meeting and we had no prior knowledge of it". That simple. I can't believe not one person at Essendon FC made the connection. Of course it's better that Essendon appear naive than misleading.

you are making broad assumptions off little to no evidence and presenting them as plausible scenarios. You are doing nothing different to what anyone else has done. Here's a pro-tip: on BigFooty, you can assume that every single post ends in "IMO". Because that's all it is. Easy.

Here's an even bigger pro-tip: If you include the words "Perhaps" or "IMO" you can't be done for liable.

And you're making your somewhat fantastic scenario's out of lines in a Herald-Sun article. It reminds me of something. What is it? Oh yes, the discussion that got me thread-banned "somehow" from the main thread, you remember, the one where you made the same kind of assumption that PERHAPS the reason the dodgy doctor had been busted for ripping off the disabled patient was in fact because of the ASADA investigation...

Are you blaming me for getting you thread banned? I didn't even know you were - and it certainly wasn't done by me. I've not reported one person or post throughout this whole thing.

As to making up "fantastic scenarios" - I could possibly not have scripted the one that you and your club are currently living. Who would have believed this whole debacle would ever have happened in the first place?

 

[CatFan79]

Interesting the concept that Dank was saying other clubs were on the cutting edge too

It's called a sales pitch.. I doubt Dank mentioned the NRL club that just gave him the arse coz his junk was useless.

Just face it, the Bombers got played and Hird was undoubtedly involved in setting up the program.

 

[jenny61_99]

there could be any number of reasons. Maybe they got cut off talking because Tania was on the phone about the kids? Or training was about to start? Or Dank thought he hadn't made enough of a sales pitch and got them together again? Or any other infinite amount of possibilities. You and media speculation are quite the couple

Or you and your mate "denial" are.

There could be any number of reasons - however Charter was not kind enough to point that out. He did, however, indicate that he spoke with Hird TWICE over the day. Not once as a chance encounter would have you think. But twice. Dank orchestrated the whole thing beautifully. He's a shifty, conniving, arrogant SOB. He has played your Coach and your Club almost to perfection. The sad thing is, they fell for it.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yes naive. In retrospect, with all that we know now, they can sit back and say it was a "chance encounter"? They would be much better off now saying "Clearly Dank orchestrated the meeting and we had no prior knowledge of it". That simple. I can't believe not one person at Essendon FC made the connection. Of course it's better that Essendon appear naive than misleading.



Here's an even bigger pro-tip: If you include the words "Perhaps" or "IMO" you can't be done for liable.



Are you blaming me for getting you thread banned? I didn't even know you were - and it certainly wasn't done by me. I've not reported one person or post throughout this whole thing.

As to making up "fantastic scenarios" - I could possibly not have scripted the one that you and your club are currently living. Who would have believed this whole debacle would ever have happened in the first place?

firstly, it's libel - once is a typo, twice means you're getting it wrong. Secondly, you can. Third, nobody is getting done for libel for outlining their opinion on an internet forum and not adding "IMO", otherwise Daytripper would already have half this forum in court.

Speculate away jenny. But don't accuse others of stating opinions as facts when you're happy to dream up whatever fantastic scenario that seems the most amazing and dire for Essendon based on tabloid hyperbole

 

[QuietB]

Dietary advice from a convicted drug trafficker, who openly admits to giving athletes guidance on passing drug tests.

Just happens to be the supplier of Dank soon after Hird and the EFC coaches embark on setting up a fitness regime that would "push boundaries".

Do we have any information on what qualifications Charter has to give dietary advice? Is he a diatition?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

It's called a sales pitch.. I doubt Dank mentioned the NRL club that just gave him the arse coz his junk was useless.

Just face it, the Bombers got played and Hird was undoubtedly involved in setting up the program.

a sales pitch? No kidding!

Dank and Robinson are a team, remember. Batman and Robin...

 

[QuietB]

He wasnt a convicted trafficker when he originally worked with Hird was he?

As we are now seeing mxett these things take a little while to catch up with you.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Do we have any information on what qualifications Charter has to give dietary advice? Is he a diatition?

do you have to be? I have a mate who's always on me to eat healthy and telling me about his "super foods". Should I warn him he'd better not as he isn't a licensed dietician?

 

[RegHickeyStand]

a sales pitch? No kidding!

Dank and Robinson are a team, remember. Batman and Robin...

Dank Hird Charter.

 

[QuietB]

do you have to be? I have a mate who's always on me to eat healthy and telling me about his "super foods". Should I warn him he'd better not as he isn't a licensed dietician?

Clearly his specialty is not dietary advice about your fruit and veg intake. It is a lovely piece of spin for the EFC to describe it as dietary advice when it is almost certain it is and was supplement advice. That is the guys business after all.

 

[jenny61_99]

firstly, it's libel - once is a typo, twice means you're getting it wrong. Secondly, you can. Third, nobody is getting done for libel for outlining their opinion on an internet forum and not adding "IMO", otherwise Daytripper would already have half this forum in court.

Apologies, I keep getting legal liability and libel mixed up. The English language is an ass!

Speculate away jenny. But don't accuse others of stating opinions as facts when you're happy to dream up whatever fantastic scenario that seems the most amazing and dire for Essendon based on tabloid hyperbole

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I think you'll find I was having a go at Mxett in particular, because he has in the not too distant past, pulled people up on stating things as fact. He then goes and does the same thing himself. It's called irony.

And as I said, NOBODY could have possibly dreamed up the "fantastic scenario" your Club finds itself in. The rest off just run a poor second I'm afraid.

 

[blackcat]

Charter giveth and taketh away in the same article. If we are going to post speculative articles, maybe we should post the whole thing? Hird associates with drug cheats, Hird disagrees with drug cheats. Who knows what this means.

I can think of 3 good reasons for Charter to implicate Hird in peptide talk and then exonerate him: 1. Knowledge of surveillance and telling the truth, 2. Knowledge of surveillance and telling a lie to protect an old friend, 3. Knowledge of surveillance and blackmailing Hird/Essendon.

But before Essendon fans jump all over this blatant skewing of facts, can you at least agree that the goal posts have moved? This started out as 'we have taken nothing but vitamins' to 'there is so much dodgy shit going on, but you can't prove we cheated.'

its called graymail. similar to a poison pill. it is just a shot across the bow, and warning that Charter does not wish to be hung out to dry like Dank. he wont pay the price.

he has a lot on Hird. Hird paid him over 10k in 2003/04. i thought it was 02/03. anyway, i am pretty confident what hird was buying was not WADA legal, re:roids. but that is by the by, this is what pro athletes do. nothing unique wrt golden boy

 

[blackcat]

Fair to say Charters and Dank aren't going to sit by and watch EFC ride off into the sunset unsullied whilst they're left behind wearing the shit for this.

^
this

 

[Bombfire]

Wait.

This doesn't make sense. Is Charter saying Hird had no idea Charter was supplying Dank when he met him poolside at the Gold Coast?

I am reading here that Charter is saying Hird told him he wanted to keep the supplement program all above board. That the two of them are having this indepth conversation but that Charter forgot to tell Hird that he was supplying Dank with banned stuff. And that later when Charter must have suspected supplies of banned stuff he was selling to Dank may have been going to Essendon, Charter never even bothered to contact Hird to warn him. His old friend that wrote a reference for him. Didn't lift a finger to help.

How would Charter know the stuff was going to Essendon? He didn't have to know it for sure to ring Hird to aks him to check what his players were taking. Both men come across as very careful characters. Charter sounds like a whistleblower, but he only says things to suit his cause. I bet this story is only out because he was shown pics of him talking to Hird by ASADA.

When I meet people just by accident after not seeing them for nearly a decade, I don't go into my business dealings with them to such a degree. Especially if I'm with my family and they theirs and we meet by a poolside. Jeez, does this story sound fishy.

Why did you open proceedings with "wait" ?

 

[blackcat]

Really? charter backed Hirds side of the story, confirming the meeting was chance, and Hirds insistence the program be WADA compliant and controlled by Reid.

and Hird gave Charter a character reference in his jail sentencing hearing. that is what you call circular logic eh