Roast Poor Crowd Turnout Last Night

[Fuzzy Happy Poo]

having a system where reserve seat members could give up their seat for a game would work really well. the club could sell them to non reserve seat members. (to keep it black and white) because i'm sure they are heaps of general admission members who would love to sit in the ponsford stand.

also for the members who give up their seat could get a small refund on the membership or probably like rewards points or credit for the collingwood store or something.

 

[Ant85]

You're right, the game is bigger than it ever was in many ways, but I don't think that Ant85 was necessarily disputing that. In fact, I think that he was suggesting that the game has become so big that it's broken free of the origins of the game itself, from it's own past. There's a question here: In detaching itself from the geographic and social realities which gave rise to the game and which sustained it for so long, has football become detached from its own soul?

For a lot of people, perhaps including you, the question is irrelevant. Other people are happy with the fact that football is now a slick production and a corporate bonanza, and there's no doubt that the bright lights and loud noises of the 'match day experience' are attracting crowds (on most days). And you're right to say that the game is more skilful that it once was. But I know that there are many people who not only think that the game has evolved, but that it's evolved into something different from what they knew, into a game they find harder and harder to recognise.

Maybe this is as relevant or meaningful to you as a bunch of old blokes in a bar recalling the glory days of Fitzroy. I'm not an old man (not bodily; the head's another matter), but I think that those stories matter, and I think if AFL football puts too much distance between its 'product' and its past, then it will inevitably leave behind much of its human heritage as well.

Thanks, saved me from a lengthy reply. But I will add boxmatrix that I am a huge supporter of expansion and even pushing the game international. I'm not old, and I don't have an old mindset. If that's how you interpreted my posts, then you've misread them as JB1975 explained. My concern is that the AFL, and thus the clubs, are obsessed with Americanising the game and playing copycat to US sports, disregarding the grassroots, local culture. The AFL has essentially removed the tribalism and community from Victorian football in the pursuit of greater revenue. The point I'm raising is; is it necessary that we cull 100 years of community in order to be the professional, elite sport the AFL wants us to be? I cited the example of EPL clubs which have more successfully balanced the era of big bucks and commercialisation with the deeply-entrenched community identities (and even profiting from them, using the tribalism to expand their brands internationally). It's not a matter of reverting back to the old days, it's a matter of finding that balance in our game today.

 

[Ant85]

having a system where reserve seat members could give up their seat for a game would work really well. the club could sell them to non reserve seat members. (to keep it black and white) because i'm sure they are heaps of general admission members who would love to sit in the ponsford stand.

also for the members who give up their seat could get a small refund on the membership or probably like rewards points or credit for the collingwood store or something.

I raised that with Collingwood membership department earlier in the year for a game where I wanted to do just that. The rep on the phone completely agreed, so obviously the club are aware of this approach and are discussing it.

 

[Vicky Park]

As for Collingwood itself, it hurt the community when it not only left Victoria Park, but completely abandoned it for years until the VFL started playing its games there. There was an ambition to become the biggest club in the land, which is great, I do support the move, but it could've been handled better. The community, I felt, was left behind in the Vic Park that was left to rot.

Having Vic Park meant Collingwood had a location. Abbotsford and Collingwood, these neighbourhoods formed the geographic heart and soul of the club, and that's important for a sense of community. I grew up in the northwest, Essendon territory, and when they won the flag in 2000, Mount Alexander Road was covered in red and black everything for the entire off-season (as awful as it was). When we won the flag in 2010, there wasn't anything of the kind in Smith St. Instead, we went to Gosch's Paddock for our celebrations (!!).

How do you reclaim something that was built for over 100 years and tossed away without a thought?

The club's trying to recreate the Victoria Park spirit by adopting the Ponsford Stand as "our stand", but at the moment the lack of community stems from the club's outlook. It views its supporters as cash cows, before a community, and that entire outlook first needs to change. It also needs to re-invest into recreating that geographic heartland, in Collingwood/Abbotsford, working with the local council, Vic Park etc.

Hi Ant

I pretty much agree with all of this.

When the club decided to leave Vic Park (presumably a decision made at some point in the early 1990s), the facilities were in severe decline, with the club having spent very little on the place in the preceding 20 or so years. The training facilities were appalling, the office space was inadequate, there was not enough car parking, etc. The Sherrin and Rush stands were the most recent (1966 and 1968 respectively), but below par. The Ryder Stand (1920s) was a shocker. I have no doubt the move had to happen, if the club was to grow and thrive. New facilities would benefit all - players, administration, supporters.

Up until the point of leaving (end of 2004?), the club leased the ground from the City of Yarra. As I understand it, the Pies had the option to maintain the lease, and with that maintain a connection with the place, or at least part of the place, but they let it go. Maybe they didn't want to pay maintenance for a facility they didn't need, if the lease conditions required that. I dont know the reason, but I think a mistake was made in turning our back on the ground we'd occupied since the 1890s. The old fortress, with so much history, tied up with our working class identity, our connection to the community of Collingwood and Abbotsford. Where my family comes from, so I know the stories well.

Just before leaving, and to rub salt into the wounds, the club held an auction to sell off everything that could be removed or ripped off the walls. Following that action - not the club's greatest moment - it was a pretty desolate place which Yarra inherited, and its future didn't look bright. Local demographics were also changing. I attended a public meeting around this time where there was strong local support to demolish the place!

Anyway, fast forward a few years, and things started to improve. Victoria Park was included on the Victorian Heritage Register. Yarra started to explore ways to get the place moving again. Some local football was played there, and the VFL umpires used it as their base. Yarra, to their credit, sought to turn the old ground into a community sporting asset, and started talks again with the club, about the Pies returning and reconnecting. The establishment of our VFL team was critical to this. Yarra, with Federal funding, refurbished the ground, including restoration of the old Ryder Stand, and opening up the facility to the surrounding area with the removal of the old walls and demolition of the Rush Stand.

The club then leased back the Social Club building, funded its refurbishment and supported the philanthropic programs which are run out of there. Credit to them for that.

But it is no longer our ground, we gave up our rights to Victoria Park, and we are there with the agreement of Yarra. I wonder if the club now regrets this? If we still controlled the place, we might have found a way to make it a focus for supporters, a focus for the community of Collingwood fans.

Sorry for the rant.

cheers

VP

 

[76woodenspooners]

When the club decided to leave Vic Park (presumably a decision made at some point in the early 1990s),

I thought this was a decision made under Eddie's tenure? (1998 - ) Or had the decision been made earlier?

Up until the point of leaving (end of 2004?), the club leased the ground from the City of Yarra. As I understand it, the Pies had the option to maintain the lease, and with that maintain a connection with the place, or at least part of the place, but they let it go. Maybe they didn't want to pay maintenance for a facility they didn't need, if the lease conditions required that. I dont know the reason, but I think a mistake was made in turning our back on the ground we'd occupied since the 1890s.

I'd hazard a guess that the decision would have been made for political reasons.

It was an extremely contentious decision to move, there were big divisions amongst the supporters; the leaders at the club had to be decisive about it: cut the cord and move on.

It also would have been a significant financial burden at time when we weren't too flush with cash.

 

[JB1975]

Local demographics were also changing. I attended a public meeting around this time where there was strong local support to demolish the place!

No a rant; a great post VP. The willingness of the club to shed its past in a fire sale was disturbing. I know that E. McGuire is more attuned to Collingwood's past, and I'm glad that the current administration seem to have a stronger sense of the importance of that past to the club's identity.

I've quoted one part of your post, one which I found especially interesting and a bit ironic. I get to Victoria Park whenever I can, and every time I do there seems to be a healthy local contingent, either watching the game or simply soaking up the atmosphere. In a neighbourhood which has fast become gentrified, I would suggest that the presence of the ground is now seen as a welcome link to the past, sitting side by side with the cottages and the warehouses and the factories, all those artefacts of a lost culture which give the inner city its charm (and value) these days.

 

[Vicky Park]

I thought this was a decision made under Eddie's tenure? (1998 - ) Or had the decision been made earlier?

I don't know for sure, but we knew we'd be playing our last game there (1999) a few years out, so I've always assumed the decision was made before Edie's arrival.

I'd hazard a guess that the decision would have been made for political reasons.

It was an extremely contentious decision to move, there were big divisions amongst the supporters; the leaders at the club had to be decisive about it: cut the cord and move on.

I'm sure politics were involved. BTW, I'm not for a moment suggesting we should have continued to play games there. But to maintain some kind of presence. North, Carlton, Doggies, Richmond - they all retain their old grounds.

It also would have been a significant financial burden at time when we weren't too flush with cash.

Yes, I acknowledge that. We really are a different club now, flushed with funds. And part of that is due to leaving Vic Park! Oh the irony!

 

[Vicky Park]

No a rant; a great post VP. The willingness of the club to shed its past in a fire sale was disturbing. I know that E. McGuire is more attuned to Collingwood's past, and I'm glad that the current administration seem to have a stronger sense of the importance of that past to the club's identity.

I've quoted one part of your post, one which I found especially interesting and a bit ironic. I get to Victoria Park whenever I can, and every time I do there seems to be a healthy local contingent, either watching the game or simply soaking up the atmosphere. In a neighbourhood which has fast become gentrified, I would suggest that the presence of the ground is now seen as a welcome link to the past, sitting side by side with the cottages and the warehouses and the factories, all those artefacts of a lost culture which give the inner city its charm (and value) these days.

Thanks JB

You are right about the local contingent. At VFL games, you often see the locals walking their dogs, with a passing interest in the game going on, and somewhat quizzical glances at us - the rusted on Pies fans! I too love to see the old factories on Trenerry Crescent looming over the ground, even if they have been adapted to trendy apartments.

I think that a happy balance has been struck, and again credit to Yarra for that. At meetings with the local residents, when the redevelopment was being planned, they wanted buildings to come down, the walls to come down, and the ground opened up. They wanted landscaping, BBQs, grass, etc. And Yarra obliged them, but retained enough to ensure the historic character was retained, and footy could be played there. The loss of the old secure walls was an issue, as it meant that games couldn't be ticketed. That's why the VFL games are free to spectators, when you have to pay at the other VFL venues.

Yarra's arts department got involved too, and sponsored the artworks and interpretation you can see around the ground. I love it! They have done a terrific job.

 

[76woodenspooners]

having a system where reserve seat members could give up their seat for a game would work really well. the club could sell them to non reserve seat members. (to keep it black and white) because i'm sure they are heaps of general admission members who would love to sit in the ponsford stand.

also for the members who give up their seat could get a small refund on the membership or probably like rewards points or credit for the collingwood store or something.

I was invited by Collingwood to purchase a ticket for a prime seat to the Swans game.

I would have happily paid good money for the seat, that wasn't an issue ...

... but what I wasn't prepared to do was to have my already allocated members seat go empty.

If the club had offered to upgrade my ticket I would have accepted in a heartbeat. Even if I had to pay full price for the prime seat and somehow been able to give my membership ticket to a Collingwood supporter then that would have been perfectly fine.

There are a fair number of seats at the game that are paid for but unoccupied. And the club can hardly complain about no-shows, because many of the folks are sitting in other parts of the ground. They're doing the right thing by injecting money into the club - surely the club can do something about helping to find people to sit in those seats.

 

[Jarryd vk]

Joffa has not been to every game this year - Hi Hiss

I have been to every game my legends membership let's me and even a couple ethihad games as well