Port Magpies teetering

[tribey]

Why can not Port Adelaide do what the rest of the league had to do and survive.

1. $800k of PAFC/PAMFC money up in smoke immediately when the other SANFL clubs voted with their paranoid feet and forced the Magpies to start anew at Ethelton. Had the PAMFC been able to invest that money - a sizeable chunk o'change in 1990s bucks - or merely use it as a cash reserve rather than burning the bulk of it just to get to square one that would obviously have helped.

2. Just 25c in the dollar for every meal, beer and pokie button press from Magpies/opposition supporters at The Port Club on PAMFC gamedays.

Those are the two that have really hurt. Other realities such as the well-publicised identity fracture, the SANFL forbidding of any joint membership/fundraising initiatives between the PAFC and PAMFC and being forcibly excised from their spiritual base are also factors.

 

[mickyj]

1. $800k of PAFC/PAMFC money up in smoke immediately when the other SANFL clubs voted with their paranoid feet and forced the Magpies to start anew at Ethelton. Had the PAMFC been able to invest that money - a sizeable chunk o'change in 1990s bucks - or merely use it as a cash reserve rather than burning the bulk of it just to get to square one that would obviously have helped.

2. Just 25c in the dollar for every meal, beer and pokie button press from Magpies/opposition supporters at The Port Club on PAMFC gamedays.

Those are the two that have really hurt. Other realities such as the well-publicised identity fracture, the SANFL forbidding of any joint membership/fundraising initiatives between the PAFC and PAMFC and being forcibly excised from their spiritual base are also factors.

How far in Debt were North Adelaide ,sturt ,Norwood.They have all turned it around.Were they any better off than Port Adelaide ?

And your second point .I do feel sorry but when PAM charge $3.00 for 1 snag in bread when every other club charge $2 to $3 for 2 with onions can see no reason other than extra raising money .And if the magpies makes purchases in 2010 rumour has it the suppliers want it COD!!!
One of your officials getting the Eagles to stop selling raffle tickets at one game .A few years back due to the fact eagles fans may buy magpies raffle as if . And then the next game complaining to higher up eagle officials because he's selling tickets .

Surely you have traded back to that $800K.If you get rid of the POW lease you will end up with $1million .BUT you can not work with that $1million .
Please any other clubs CEO and President would put there heads down and work through it !! Just as mine did to recover from $350'000 debt to make $400'000 and end up in profit.If it can be done at Oval ave why not at ALberton.
Because there's no one left with any balls .

Dead team walking Magpies die Power take over the Prince of Wales.
Its what they want then we'll only have 1 Port Adelaide left that whinges and whines all footy season instead of two !!

And it all boils down to the SANFL wanting a Port Adelaide in the SANFL it hasn't worked end the agony .And bring on the footy

 

[Cap]

In all seriousness if a club can afford to exist then quite simply it shouldn't, the arrogance of Port to believe that they are some how more important to this club than say South Adelaide reflects why no one cares that they are going to go under.

 

[Docker Clint]

If the magpies go under not only will you lose the most attended and membered club in the leauge, but you'll also lose future income from the potential increased (or just even) profit that the power would filter down to the other SANFL clubs.

Perhaps they should have been better managed then? The rest of the league doesn't have the option of whoring themselves to an AFL club to survive, they have to do it on their own.

 

[Docker Clint]

I just can't comprehend why the events of over 20 years ago would even come into consideration

It doesn't even enter into it. I spoke to a board member at a SANFL club and he didnt even mention it. All he said was they want a successful and profitable Power but cant give a leg up to a SANFL rival that they will never have access to.

Killing off the Magpies, killing of fa financial windfall for the Power & losing future growth potential in a sustainable Magpies outfit is NOT in the best interests of the SANFL.

Well they're not sustainable are they? Other wise this wouldn't be happening.

& If they do vote it down, I would be all for the SANFL losing their AFL licenses.

This shits me hearing this from Crows fans. Where the hell did you club come from? Are you a South Australian? It's better to be supporting local footy. Feel free to cut the SANFL off at the knees, but also refrain from drafting local boys if you're not interested in supporting grass roots footy.

FWIW: a transparent and facetious Michelangelo Rucci scare tactic isn't much of a threat.

Let 'em die. Not even enough of their own supporters care. They're like Crows supporters and couldn't wait to suckle at the expanded VFL in deference to their local comp.

 

[Docker Clint]

And it all boils down to the SANFL wanting a Port Adelaide in the SANFL

Why does this myth still exist? Part of the tender process for the second licence was a proposal to reduce the league to 8 clubs and Port's was one that didn't address that, they actively promoted the retention of the Magpies in the SANFL, not the other way around. Even one of the most paranoid "they're out to get us" Port supporters on here, Macca19, will back that up.

If Port no longer wanted to play in the SANFL, why didn't they just not turn up? There's no law that they'd be breaking if they just up and folded back in 1996. There was no gun to their head forcing them continue. Their own supporters at the time would've gone feral. Seems they've relinquished their SANFL club since they've started going down the gurgler on field because believe me they were still pretty vocal back in 1998 and 1999.

 

[roostersgal4eva]

Im not sure how to feel about this - I dont like the idea that we (North) didnt even look at the propsal before saying no....should weigh things up first

I also think Port cant have it both ways - they either in the AFL or the SANFL - and if they want to exisit they cant be given special treatment by either AFL teams...none of the other clubs had an AFL team to bail them out why should Port be any different?

They say that it wont be a Power Reserves side and that best intention is great in theory but the best intentions dont always last and may end up not be practical when that theroy is tested in practice

Can someone tell me what is the stance/view of the "NO" voters - proper answer please and not smart alec comments!

Regardless of the result one thing is for sure - SANFL needs a total revamp or risk becoming a sencond rate comp.

 

[Docker Clint]

Can someone tell me what is the stance/view of the "NO" voters - proper answer please and not smart alec comments!

As I said, the clubs that are voting no are looking at it from the standpoint of not giving a rival a leg up that they cant have in the future. That's all there is to it despite Port fans saying its about 1989, 1990 etc.

 

[subaru]

What I truly don't get is how come Power sponsored netball, $250k a year and left the Magpies fending for themselves?

 

[beenreal]

It doesn't even enter into it. I spoke to a board member at a SANFL club and he didnt even mention it. All he said was they want a successful and profitable Power but cant give a leg up to a SANFL rival that they will never have access to.



Well they're not sustainable are they? Other wise this wouldn't be happening.



This shits me hearing this from Crows fans. Where the hell did you club come from? Are you a South Australian? It's better to be supporting local footy. Feel free to cut the SANFL off at the knees, but also refrain from drafting local boys if you're not interested in supporting grass roots footy.

FWIW: a transparent and facetious Michelangelo Rucci scare tactic isn't much of a threat.

Let 'em die. Not even enough of their own supporters care. They're like Crows supporters and couldn't wait to suckle at the expanded VFL in deference to their local comp.

That line of thinking is contrary to what the League Directors are there for, to decide what is best for football not individual clubs.

 

[tribey]

What I truly don't get is how come Power sponsored netball, $250k a year and left the Magpies fending for themselves?

During the 1996/7 transitional period the PAFC gave the PAMFC approximately $1.1m to compete in the SANFL (roughly $800k for administration/startup at Ethelton and $300k for transfer/clearance fees).

Beyond that the PAFC is absolutely forbidden from any joint marketing/fundraising activities beyond the Magpies' 25% stake in The Port Club under the terms of the licence agreement.

Bottom line, even if the Power wanted to 'fend' for the Magpies they couldn't.

 

[tribey]

You're just being emotional about it. It makes logical sense for them to merge, to both save money.

B-I-N-G-O, and Bingo was his et cetera.

There are sensible stopgaps and contingencies to prevent the likes of North's fears of the Magpies becoming a behemoth by stealth - ie, an administration cap to go with a salary cap (the same salary cap that Norwood busted by $35000 in 2008) along with full annual auditing.

If this move can make both clubs financially strong - allowing the SANFL to keep more of the money it gouges out of the Power at AAMI and allowing the Magpies to continue in the SANFL as one of the bigger drawcards in the league, thus enriching the competition and fulfilling the SANFL's stated aim to be the second-best league in the universe - then why? Why not? (Harvey, 2009).

 

[tribey]

Why does this myth still exist? Part of the tender process for the second licence was a proposal to reduce the league to 8 clubs and Port's was one that didn't address that, they actively promoted the retention of the Magpies in the SANFL, not the other way around. Even one of the most paranoid "they're out to get us" Port supporters on here, Macca19, will back that up.

Correct.

But how about you tell the full story?

Cunningham and Boulton lobbied to retain a Port presence in the SANFL because in Bucky's words, 'it would be unthinkable for a boy born and raised in Semaphore to be unable to pull on the black and white'.

Their proposal called for a situation not unlike what is being lobbied for now. One club, two teams. All based at Alberton.

And not unlike now the other SANFL clubs feared the Magpies becoming even stronger and more dominant off the fat of the future Power's AFL dollars, resulting in the fait accompli of a complete divorce of the two entities - even so far as to forbid the Magpies from training at Alberton lest their players get to enjoy the spaceage training facilities of the planned Alan Scott HQ.

Without access to a matchday social club facility and dropping $800k just to get to square one, the situation forced upon the Magpies was untenable from the start.

Had Port's original plan - pretty much the same one they have now - been properly considered from the beginning, all this could've been avoided.

 

[twentydollarnote]

dyertribe werent you always rattling on about how the SANFL forced you to have a team in teh SANFL and you (port) wanted nothing to do with it? All of a sudden you've changed to you wanted a SANFL team but now its the SANFL's fault because they forced you to be separate instead? Seems like you changed your story.

And even though i was too young to remember at the time, it seems in reality it was port power who didnt manage it well. For instance i'm pretty sure it was port power who forced the port magpies from alberton and then started the bad relations (not the SANFL). If they didn’t force them out, i definitely remember they at least restricted access to alberton out of spite, which was part of the cause of the bad relations.

All the SANFL wanted was to ensure a super team with unfair AFL advantages was not created which seems perfectly reasonable.

 

[cam]

So much hysteria. So little knowledge.

Nobody is out to get the Magpies. But nobody wants to see the Magpies be given an unfair advantage at SANFL level. Is that so unreasonable?

The role of Clubs' Board members is to look after the interests of their respective clubs. They are not there to help the Magpies or to do whatever is in the interests of "football in general".

The SANFL is the last bastion of good-quality club football - untouched by the AFL footy franchise machine. Seeing a filthy Power guernsey (or Crows for that matter) running around in the SANFL would s**t me to tears.

 

[twentydollarnote]

There is definitely a lack of knowledge especially on bigfooty where theres about 20different versions of what happen going around. The port (afl) supporters that are still left are bitter and twisted that things didnt work out for them at AFl level as they hoped and blame everyone else apart from themselves.

My understanding is that pretty much the only reason the port magpies are in trouble is because unlike the other SANFL clubs they didnt get their pokies in order. The SANFL should help them do that and then they can get on with business.

 

[tribey]

dyertribe werent you always rattling on about how the SANFL forced you to have a team in teh SANFL and you (port) wanted nothing to do with it? All of a sudden you've changed to you wanted a SANFL team but now its the SANFL's fault because they forced you to be separate instead? Seems like you changed your story.

Yes I have changed 'my story'.

I was misinformed previously about the SANFL forcing us to retain a side, so I went away and improved my knowledge by doing some research and obtaining the facts.

Others could learn from this I think.

And even though i was too young to remember at the time, it seems in reality it was port power who didnt manage it well. For instance i'm pretty sure it was port power who forced the port magpies from alberton and then started the bad relations (not the SANFL). If they didn’t force them out, i definitely remember they at least restricted access to alberton out of spite, which was part of the cause of the bad relations.

This isn't true.

After Boulton, Cunningham and the board's counterproposal (one club, two teams) the other SANFL clubs demanded a complete separation of the two entities resulting in the Magpies being re-basing at Ethelton and being forbidden from so much as training at Alberton or any joint marketing/fundraising activities between the two clubs.

As part of the split the Port Adelaide Football Club gave the Magpies $1.1m, most of which was eaten up just to get to the startline for season 1997.

All the SANFL wanted was to ensure a super team with unfair AFL advantages was not created which seems perfectly reasonable.

This is true, whether it was reasonable given the realities of the situation is another thing. This perception that the Power would funnel all this excess booty and treasure into the Magpies to ensure their continued dominance is fanciful, especially given the financial burden of the AFL Licence repayments and the imminent construction of the Allan Scott HQ training centre.

 

[twentydollarnote]

So re-basing at Ethelton was forced? I know the training bit isnt right though, because i remember the sanfl port was blocked to train on alberton by the afl port on a few occasions and there was a big kick up about it and thats partly where the bad relations came from.

i also think the fear about big advantages was a reasonable one at the time as apparently port were expecting crowds of 40k and things were expected to go better than they have. Even now with the different financial expectations and a pretty young squad, a reserves side would be pretty formidable with the right mature players to go with them (like a younger set of the gowans brothers for instance).

 

[tribey]

So re-basing at Ethelton was forced?

Yeah, obviously not exactly Ethelton per se - the Magpies could've based themselves at Myponga if they'd wished - but a forced separation of operations was ordered.

I know the training bit isnt right though, because i remember the sanfl port was blocked to train on alberton by the afl port on a few occasions and there was a big kick up about it and thats partly where the bad relations came from.

There was a significant tug-o-war over the use of the Oval itself for training during the 1998 finals series (brought up mid-year when the Power were also in the gun for September). The Power wouldn't allow it, so Stephen Williams bypassed the front offices of both clubs and made it a member-based issue, eventually getting his way.

Joint usage of bricks and mortar facilities remained off-limits until shortly after the opening of the ASHQ when the Magpies came back and inhabited the old rooms.

i also think the fear about big advantages was a reasonable one at the time as apparently port were expecting crowds of 40k and things were expected to go better than they have. Even now with the different financial expectations and a pretty young squad, a reserves side would be pretty formidable with the right mature players to go with them (like a younger set of the gowans brothers for instance).

I see your point, but some concessions and compromises similar to the current merger proposal could've been hammered out though, rather than the all-in exile approach that was undertaken. A fully audited administrative cap to go with the salary cap, for instance.

 

[Docker Clint]

Correct.

But how about you tell the full story?

Cunningham and Boulton lobbied to retain a Port presence in the SANFL because in Bucky's words, 'it would be unthinkable for a boy born and raised in Semaphore to be unable to pull on the black and white'.

Their proposal called for a situation not unlike what is being lobbied for now. One club, two teams. All based at Alberton.

And not unlike now the other SANFL clubs feared the Magpies becoming even stronger and more dominant off the fat of the future Power's AFL dollars, resulting in the fait accompli of a complete divorce of the two entities - even so far as to forbid the Magpies from training at Alberton lest their players get to enjoy the spaceage training facilities of the planned Alan Scott HQ.

Without access to a matchday social club facility and dropping $800k just to get to square one, the situation forced upon the Magpies was untenable from the start.

Had Port's original plan - pretty much the same one they have now - been properly considered from the beginning, all this could've been avoided.

I've never denied that the SANFL and the clubs forced them to be separate, what I'm addressing is the way Port supporters constantly go on about the SANFL forcing them to keep the Magpies going. How about YOU tell the full story?

As it turns out the Mapgies juggernaut that the rest of the league were worried about wasn't even close to getting rolling, the Power arent even profitable so it's hard for them to make the Magpies rich. I'm interested how you can prove that the situation wouldn't be much different had there been one club all along, it's possible the Power might just say it's all too tough to have and AFL club, a SANFL club, associated junior team, local comp support and supporting the Eyre Peninsula.

Again, I'm glad it was you who got the AFL licence, it's a poisoned chalice for a single club to take.

 

[Docker Clint]

FWIW: I'm streaming 5AA for the first time in a long while and they've raised a good point. It's not over today if Port dont get their demands, there's still another season to get something happening to keep them viable.

 

[roostersgal4eva]

The Gentleman that is representing Centrals said that there were more options out there and this wasn't "The End" for Port

Got me thinking as to what they are and if they have been explored

 

[footy4ever]

Does anyone here really think the magpies will fold?

I can't imagine the sanfl without a Port magpies team. If they lose the vote...soonish, it will not be the end. According to Port, a merger is imperitive for survival. That is such a ruse. When the death knell is sounding, the realisation of their extinction will bring about all sorts of creative solutions.

Relax relax, it won't happen.

 

[jarmanagic]

Whilst the Port fans seem to think the SANFL Directors are out to get them with this vote(as is the whole world apparently, Whicker/Basheer/Cornes/Rowe/5AA/Advertiser/all Crows fans etc) the reality is this

The Port board led by Bruce Weber (exclude Dave Boyd) sold the SANFL down the river in 1990 because they thought they were "too good for the SANFL" and to expect sympathy/support/handouts not in the best interest of the SANFL clubs is laughable even 20 years later

They made this bed. They changed the SANFL forever. Other clubs like North, Norwood and Sturt were decimated but survived through shrewd financial management. The PAFC challenges might be unique but if you want someone to blame now look to 1990. Look to Albertion generally. You wanted to play with the big boys, well guess what you are and just maybe you aren't quite as all powerful as you thought

 

[madman]

Its stupid what they're doing