Posting quality - everyone please read

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We moderators have been discussing quality for a while but haven't put anything into writing as to how this will work.

These are my thoughts and the other moderators can add to it as they see fit.

We do not want to censor negative opinion at all, so can we refrain from the sarcastic comments re censorship.

This is what we don't want:

* Name calling and abuse towards players, re their skills, position in the team, what kind of vegetable they remind you of, parentage etc. If you dislike a player in terms of the way they play, it is easy enough to articulate that in a more constructive way.

* You can participate in or start a thread about a particular player, but let's not do a new one every single week to repeat the same message, and let's not turn a broader thread such as pre-match discussion into a thread about one player. In these broader threads, if you think someone should be dropped, name your side but refrain from getting involved in debates about the worth of that player. These threads are for discussing how we can win the next game, not for repeatedly bagging a player in each week.

* Positive posters, let's not find EVERY instance of someone wanting to drop a player and fire from the hip 'are you serious?', 'you're not a supporter' etc etc. Feel free to disagree and name your own changes. Feel free to dig up and follow up in dedicated player thread if you wish but let's not derail the existing one.

* We will be deleting more posts and if someone does not get the message from a deleted post, we will be giving more warnings. The warning is then recorded for the other mods to see and if it continues, they may start working their way up the range of infractions and even on to board suspensions.

I think we can all see it. A great divide and much tension is starting to occur. The ones who want the right to be critical are getting frustrated at a perceived push to censor them. The ones that hate negativity are getting frustrated at the repetitive nature of the negativity. One side thinks the mods are censoring free speech, the other side thinks that the mods are not doing their jobs.

We have tried hard to please as many people as possible and to continue what should be an amicable bonding experience for all of us, but as the seams begin to fray, we may have to take a step back and just do our jobs regardless of what you may think of us. In the end, it is the continuation of quality on the board that is paramount.

We will make unpopular decisions but if you enquire with respect, we will endeavour to explain our reasons. We may respect your opinion as posters but as moderators, what is good for the majority of the board and what keeps the quality posters on the board will always receive a higher weighting.

I am hoping we are all mature enough to know none of it is personal and if you disagree with our actions, our hearts are in the right place.

While I have your attention, we encourage posters to apply for Richard Pratt Memorial Board access. I have spent precious little time working out how this works but Bee is all over it so feel free to PM her for details.

If you want to use this thread for further suggestions to help with the quality of the board, feel free to do so.

For instance, perhaps we can have a dedicated Feral Fan thread each week, where some of the more hostile discussions about player worth can take place? That way, those that don't want to be bombarded with that sort of thing can just not enter the thread.

Cheers

 

[Dennis]

Best post ever. I'm sick of being called a "troll", "not a supporter", etc because I have a winge about a player or tactics. Your new held views will bring balance to the forum

Was your retirement the shortest since Tim Watson

The Feral Fan thread = Carltons version of Bay 13???

 

[KnaveyBlue]

For instance, perhaps we can have a dedicated Feral Fan thread each week, where some of the more hostile discussions about player worth can take place?

Seems like the best idea.

I'm a firm believer that people should be able to post WHATEVER they want. And yes, that includes angry expletive-filled rants.

On an unofficial forum like this there should be total freedom of speech, with moderators only weighing in if there's a legal issue.

 

[Pamam]

Agree ODN....think its worth being a sticky!!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Best post ever. I'm sick of being called a "troll", "not a supporter", etc because I have a winge about a player or tactics. Your new held views will bring balance to the forum

The views are not newly held but we have been content to let things sort themselves out a lot, but it seems to not be happening these days.

I guess people will take out of my comments what they want to but I am not protecting those that like to complain necessarily. I am giving them the right to be negative but putting stricter controls on how they go about it, including name calling and abuse of players, spamming every thread with bias against a player and the degree of repetition involved.

To counter that, I am asking the positive posters to keep the discussion focused and not attack the more critical posters themselves but rebutt their arguments. If they get frustrated with negativity, they can report derailing or over the top posts and allow us to review them.

Was your retirement the shortest since Tim Watson

Possibly. I have been back for about a month though and you only registered last month. Are you a reborn former poster?

The Feral Fan thread = Carltons version of Bay 13???

We can discuss the name. I think Inside Football has a Feral Fan section. It will be like Bay 13 in that you can go after posts a bit more, can complain about a player to your heart's content (bearing in mind, abuse and name calling provisions). In other words, get it off your chest in a designated spot but be a little more objective and constructive throughout the rest of the board.

We are just recognising that birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim, footy fans gotta vent, whether we like it or not.

 

[WeninRome]

Unfortunately when you have 14 year kids who have access to sites like this. The posts are not going to improve greatly.

Would be nice if we could make this an over 18's site

 

[Blue since 72]

Here here. The 'Feral Fan' thread might be a good idea too, especially for the 'I haven't taken a deep breath before I post' responses.
Be a good place to indiscriminately bag players without jumping down each others throats. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion on something but no need to get personal.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

On an unofficial forum like this there should be total freedom of speech, with moderators only weighing in if there's a legal issue.

Many hold that opinion. However it is not a democracy here and we are but one board on a site that is expanding and adapting. It costs money to run and so it draws revenue. Those revenue sources may have suggestions, so might the clubs and the AFL who largely recognise the value of the site but would still protect their own interests when it comes down to it.

In the end, MOST posters come here to show support for their clubs, not tear them down because they themselves are upset about what they are supporting.

We are trying to put square pegs into round holes to keep as many people happy as possible, but as I keep saying, we will keep the majority happy over the minority and if that offends their freedom of speech ideals, unfortunately such is life. We want to reach as many Carlton supporters as possible, not keep it smaller and idealistic for those who want to just rant.

Positivity over negativity every day of the week ... with provisos to cater for all as much as possible.

 

[Azul]

The Feral Fan thread = Carltons version of Bay 13???

Maybe 'The Gardiner Stand'? IIRC, some seats were sold as 'premium' reserved tickets to away patrons. When Adelaide played, there sat a fair few ferals.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Agree with ODN
Can I mention the swear jar?

 

[celtic_pride]

I understand what you are trying to ODN, but I think that sometimes 'negative' posts that pop up from time to time is to be expected after a loss ..

I mean, I hardly think the negative posters here are any worse then the say the ones in the Adelaide, Richmond and Collingwood boards (for instances) after a loss .

Some critical posters (including myself I have to say) should tone down their sometimes overzealous and unproductive criticisms, but on the other hand, some posters I feel do 'overreact' at times as well.
Personally I think threads questioning Brett Ratten's coaching ability is a worthy and valid one, although it shouldn't be 'entitled' Ratten is an rotten Coach (Etc)
You shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I would have to say, I'm also getting pissed off with the way some posters here actually slate me off in a degoatory manner, and what bugs me is that I've been infracted/warned a couple of times for afew things I have posted here (most of which is fair enough though in all honesty) but I have noticed that other posters seem to be given carte blanche with regards to personally attacking me and other posters who seem to be 'controversial' ...

I would honestly like to see more consistency with the mods with regards to that kind of thing on this board.

 

[thylacine60]

ODN - call yourself a supporter.

 

[Dennis]

Possibly. I have been back for about a month though and you only registered last month. Are you a reborn former poster?

Yes. I'm up to version 9 I think.

Under the previous regime, proper and concise arguments I posted were attacked as "un Carlton like" and all the usual rubbish that comes from the schoolkids.

Therefore, red card after red card simply for just sticking up for my arguments.


Im happy to post all my previous names should an amnesty be granted

In fact, I would like to resurrect an old one if you can "un ban" it

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Yes. I'm up to version 9 I think.

Under the previous regime, proper and concise arguments I posted were attacked as "un Carlton like" and all the usual rubbish that comes from the schoolkids.

Therefore, red card after red card simply for just sticking up for my arguments.


Im happy to post all my previous names should an amnesty be granted

In fact, I would like to resurrect an old one if you can "un ban" it

No need. I will judge you based on your current guise and only do a background check if you give me reason to.

I will say though that seldom does a poster's account of why they got carded match up with the moderator's version or the actual content. Were your comments over the top, derailing, repetitive or based on a bias rather than actual events? If so and not in the correct place, you may still draw unwanted attention.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I understand what you are trying to ODN, but I think that sometimes 'negative' posts that pop up from time to time is to be expected after a loss ..

Yes and that is why we are giving them an airing but trying to direct how it is carried out.

I mean, I hardly think the negative posters here are any worse then the say the ones in the Adelaide, Richmond and Collingwood boards (for instances) after a loss .

And they can look after their own boards.

Some critical posters (including myself I have to say) should tone down their sometimes overzealous and unproductive criticisms, but on the other hand, some posters I feel do 'overreact' at times as well.

Yes, thus some guidelines to cater for every taste.

Personally I think threads questioning Brett Ratten's coaching ability is a worthy and valid one, although it shouldn't be 'entitled' Ratten is an rotten Coach (Etc)

Agreed, worthy idea, tweak the wording, especially in the title.

You shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm just happy if the baby recognises the need to bathe.

I would have to say, I'm also getting pissed off with the way some posters here actually slate me off in a degoatory manner, and what bugs me is that I've been infracted/warned a couple of times for afew things I have posted here (most of which is fair enough though in all honesty) but I have noticed that other posters seem to be given carte blanche with regards to personally attacking me and other posters who seem to be 'controversial' ...

Our rules thread talks about how posters make their own reputation. Yours has become one of not only being over the top in some of your assessments but of also being inappropriate and saying something to elicit a lot of the responses. It causes posters to punch at shadows as your reputation proceeds you. Cooperate and work with the mods rather than against, and the balance will soon be restored. When you become the line of least resistance, you become part of the minority and when something has to give, unfortunately the majority tends to prevail. Communicating, taking a deep breath, recognising that people are reacting to you rather than baiting you, might help overcome all this.

I would honestly like to see more consistency with the mods with regards to that kind of thing on this board.

It's a two way street CP. I do try to understand why people react the way they do and if I can see some logic, albeit misguided, I try not to temper my own actions. We are human though and this is not foolproof.

 

[celtic_pride]

Yes and that is why we are giving them an airing but trying to direct how it is carried out.

And they can look after their own boards.



Yes, thus some guidelines to cater for every taste.



Agreed, worthy idea, tweak the wording, especially in the title.

I'm just happy if the baby recognises the need to bathe.



Our rules thread talks about how posters make their own reputation. Yours has become one of not only being over the top in some of your assessments but of also being inappropriate and saying something to elicit a lot of the responses. It causes posters to punch at shadows as your reputation proceeds you. Cooperate and work with the mods rather than against, and the balance will soon be restored. When you become the line of least resistance, you become part of the minority and when something has to give, unfortunately the majority tends to prevail. Communicating, taking a deep breath, recognising that people are reacting to you rather than baiting you, might help overcome all this.



It's a two way street CP. I do try to understand why people react the way they do and if I can see some logic, albeit misguided, I try not to temper my own actions. We are human though and this is not foolproof.

Fair enough, and I can't argue with any of that really.
It's actually a very positive thing where the mods on this board are pro-active and willing to open lines of communication and discussion with regards to the rules of the b oard, and what is acceptable and un-acceptable behaviour, and from my own point of view, I realise i have to pull my head in so to speak, and stop being so 'reactive/hot headed' at times ...

 

[Will.B.Worth.Da.Waite]

Great thread. It annoys the hell out of me when people make negative threads about a player when it's pretty obvious they don't really know what they are talking about, but what annoys me even more than that are the so called "positive" posters who refuse to hear a bad thing said about anyone at Carlton, and who talk down to posters for voicing what are often warranted opinions.

I would think that the majority of posts on this board people disagree with, but people need to start realising that everybody has a right to an opinion and to stop talking down to posters who share a different one to themselves.

To be honest, I don't find this happens to me very much, but it clearly does to some other posters and I don't think it's right that a form of bullying is occuring on this board. In my huge opinion, some of the more frequent, probably more knowledgable posters on this board are the biggest culprits of what I would almost call bullying on this board.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Great thread. It annoys the hell out of me when people make negative threads about a player when it's pretty obvious they don't really know what they are talking about, but what annoys me even more than that are the so called "positive" posters who refuse to hear a bad thing said about anyone at Carlton, and who talk down to posters for voicing what are often warranted opinions.

I would think that the majority of posts on this board people disagree with, but people need to start realising that everybody has a right to an opinion and to stop talking down to posters who share a different one to themselves.

To be honest, I don't find this happens to me very much, but it clearly does to some other posters and I don't think it's right that a form of bullying is occuring on this board. In my huge opinion, some of the more frequent, probably more knowledgable posters on this board are the biggest culprits of what I would almost call bullying on this board.

+1

Very well said

 

[blue gunslinger]

Such as?

 

[Azul]

The hysteria after the Freo game was pretty bad... Perhaps an official weekly vent thread on this board? Only to 'Carlton' listed supporters and only those who have a considerable posting history. This will keep the opposition trolls posing as supporters away. As a "BigFooty Apprentice", I'm quite willing to forgo my rights, as a probationary poster, to post in such a thread.

As long as people understand the rules, anyone straying from the official thread and without sufficient "constructive criticism" can be yellow carded. Not so much zero tolerance, but that if you want to moan and bitch about this week's scapegoat whether it be JR/Bentley/Stevo/Johnson or whoever - do it on the dedicated thread.

Outside of the 'vent thread', turn that frown upside down and if you can't say something nice about a player keep it to yourself.

 

[Blue Bawls]

Having a thread where you can vent to your heart's content?

Call it the RHYS-JONES POOL ROOM or something and get Robert Walls to moderate.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The hysteria after the Freo game was pretty bad... Perhaps an official weekly vent thread on this board? Only to 'Carlton' listed supporters and only those who have a considerable posting history. This will keep the opposition trolls posing as supporters away. As a "BigFooty Apprentice", I'm quite willing to forgo my rights, as a probationary poster, to post in such a thread.

No need to make it exclusive, so long as it is contained, and so long as the name calling is not present, then anyone can have their rant. Those that hate such things will steer clear like many steer clear of Bay 13. As it stands now, you can't read a report without someone having an unnecessary player rant which can't be avoided and upsets those who are able to contain their emotions a bit more.

I don't particularly care about people letting fly with some emotion charged expletives at the team effort in general during such a rant, as long as the swear filter is utilised.

****ing insipid, lazy performance from a bunch of ****ing weak frontrunners ... might be expected in such a rant thread after a game. It's not articulate, it's not constructive but it serves its purpose. I wouldn't want the same poster to be posting in the same vein all week long however, it is a rant thread to exorcise those frustrations after all, not a swear fest for the sake of it.

When you start substituting a players name instead of a generalising of the team, it becomes more personal and identifies a target though. That is where you raise your issue without the theatrics if possible.

 

[Azul]

My point about requiring a posting history threshold, for the vent thread, is that a number of the rants on the board last week were from newbie posters like me who I'd never seen before or since post during the week.

Now if your sole intention of creating a BF account is as a fair weather supporter to slag off the team and add nothing positive to the group, maybe this place isn't the place. By contrast, and not meaning to single him out but based on previous conciliatory posts in this thread, I think celtic_pride and others have earned that right.

 

[Malifice]

Im all for it.

It has been getting little feral in here lately. I dont envy the jobs of the Mods in clearing up some of the vitriol posted in here in the days following a loss.

Anything to keep the posting largely constructive and topical (while steering away from personal abuse, outlandish statements and player vendettas) im fine with.

Liking the sound of the 'vent' thread as well for those amongst us who feel the need to rant. Gotta let it out somewhere I guess.

 

[len_jet]

Im all for it.

It has been getting little feral in here lately. I dont envy the jobs of the Mods in clearing up some of the vitriol posted in here in the days following a loss.

Anything to keep the posting largely constructive and topical (while steering away from personal abuse, outlandish statements and player vendettas) im fine with.

Liking the sound of the 'vent' thread as well for those amongst us who feel the need to rant. Gotta let it out somewhere I guess.

+1