List Mgmt. Premiership Year vs Now

[jjsmitty8]

So I'm not exactly sure what i'm trying to say in this thread, I guess it's about depth.

I got to thinking yesterday about our depth in our premiership year. I was watching Classic Quarters on the T-Box AFL Channel yesterday, and the draw we had on the Queens Birthday in 2010 was on. I saw Brad Dick and Jaxson Barham running around, Josh Fraser and Darren Jolly were getting touched up by Mark Jamar and Dane Swan was running riot.

I've then proceeded to have a look at our list from that year. I'm just going to do a breakdown and then discuss.
Premiership Players still with the club:
Luke Ball, Dayne Beams, Jarryd Blair, Nathan Brown, Travis Cloke, Tyson Goldsack, Brent Macaffer, Nick Maxwell, Harry O'Brien, Scott Pendlebury, Ben Reid, Steele Sidebottom, Dane Swan, Alan Toovey

Premiership Players that have moved on:
Leigh Brown, Chris Dawes, Alan Didak, Ben Johnson, Darren Jolly, Heath Shaw, Dale Thomas, Sharrod Wellingham

Non-Premiership players still on our list:
Ben Sinclair, Josh Thomas

Non-Premiership players that have been moved on (Depth players at the time if you like):
John Anthony, Jaxson Barham, Jarrad Blight, Simon Buckley, Ryan Cook, Anthony Corrie, Leon Davis*, Brad Dick, Josh Fraser*, Tarkyn Lockyer*, John McCarthy, Paul Medhurst, Shane O'Bree*, Simon Prestigiacomo*, Luke Rounds, Sean Rusling, Cameron Wood.

*Servants of the club. Just not in the best 22 at the time.

So what I was thinking is how I rate our depth going into season 2014, much higher than the depth of 2010 that got us a flag. It might be an unpopular opinion, but I think perhaps we had a bit luck in 2010, with the youth we had in our side. Things just went the right way and we didn't have many, if any injuries. A few injuries to key players and things might not have played out the way they did.

I think our list for 2014 has been rejuvenated, we've parted ways with some premiership stars, but in my opinion, the right ones. We've injected some youth (Elliott, Williams, Seedsman, Adams, Grundy, J.Thomas etc) and the youth we had during 2010 are now on the fringe of 100 games and peaking in their maturity and physical attributes. (Pendlebury, Beams, Sidebottom, Reid, Cloke etc.) In addition, we've added experience (Dwyer, White, Young) and I'm praying that we have a few guys (Yes Alex Fasolo, I'm looking at you), have breakout years and add another string to our bow so to speak.

Essentially what I'm saying Collingwood fans, is that I think we prematurely won the premiership in 2010 and have had these massive expectations of our troops every year since. I think under Buckley's plan, in the years to come we will be in a terrific place to challenge again.

Thoughts? Discuss!

peace.

 

[POKsPies252]

I'd say we have better depth but at the expense of some top end talent. It's important to have a good mix in order to win the flag. Recently we've seen the Swans sacrifice depth for more top end talent and it will be interesting to see how it works out for them in 2014. If everything goes right then they probably win the flag, start to get a few injuries and they become just another side.

Our hope is that we can get some of these blokes between 5 - 30 on the list (in terms of ranking, virtually everyone but Reid, Cloke, Swan, Pendles, Beams) to become top end players in order to push for a premiership. That could happen as early as next year or more likely in 2-3 years

 

[rustyg70]

Not meaning anything by this but Presti was definately in our best 22.
He pulled himself out of the side because he said he wasn't sure he would be able to compete at the required level.
That's why we hand the number 35 jumper to our top draft pick.
He was the ultimate TEAM man. Sacrificed personal glory for the good of the club.

 

[jjsmitty8]

Not meaning anything by this but Presti was definately in our best 22.
He pulled himself out of the side because he said he wasn't sure he would be able to compete at the required level.
That's why we hand the number 35 jumper to our top draft pick.
He was the ultimate TEAM man. Sacrificed personal glory for the good of the club.

Yeah, excellent call! I felt that he, along with others, deserved to be in an exclusive bracket but I couldn't put him under premiership stars

 

[Ed D]

I'm not sure we do have the same depth. In 2010 be had 200 game players as backup who could play decent senior football. To me 2014 feels more like 2008/9, where the side had good players but a lot were a season or two away from impacting games. That's not to say if things don't go right the team can't go all the way, but the team seems a fair bit off the 2010 side.

 

[Smoky]

Non-Premiership players that have been moved on (Depth players at the time if you like):
John Anthony, Jaxson Barham, Jarrad Blight, Simon Buckley, Ryan Cook, Anthony Corrie, Leon Davis*, Brad Dick, Josh Fraser*, Tarkyn Lockyer*, John McCarthy, Paul Medhurst, Shane O'Bree*, Simon Prestigiacomo*, Luke Rounds, Sean Rusling, Cameron Wood.

*Servants of the club. Just not in the best 22 at the time.

Simon Prestigiacomo is a Premiership Player in my opinion...

What he did... won us the Flag.

 

[Alexander323bc]

If I were Nate I would give him my medal. A sacrifice that pales in insignificance compared to Presti's self sacrifice.

 

[DWil6]

If I were Nate I would give him my medal. A sacrifice that pales in insignificance compared to Presti's self sacrifice.

You know that wouldn't happen. Besides, Nathan's total double ownership of Reiwoldt made sure he totally earned that medal.


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[THATSGOLD]

Premiership players still with the club that could get us to another or win one on gf day - all except for Maxwell. Maybe Ball goes backwards since 2010. Swan maybe slightly backwards and Toovey.
Now find me 10 players as good as Didak and co to fill premiership spots for the 2014 flag,
Then find me depth as good as Presti Tarks Fraser etc and we might challenge for the flag next year.

 

[Hva sher a]

So what I was thinking is how I rate our depth going into season 2014, much higher than the depth of 2010 that got us a flag. It might be an unpopular opinion, but I think perhaps we had a bit luck in 2010, with the youth we had in our side. Things just went the right way and we didn't have many, if any injuries. A few injuries to key players and things might not have played out the way they did.

Thoughts? Discuss!

peace.

All premiership teams need an element of luck especially with injuries. It also helped that Geelong were distracted by the Gazza departure, Bomber Thompson was near the end and to be honest, the Dogs weren't serious challengers. Plus the team that has owned us, Hawthorn, happened to have their worst year in ages. We still deserved the flag but agree with the luck comment.

Our depth might be better this year in terms of potential but in terms of "real" depth, ie players who could automatically come in and do the job, 2010 seems better. Tarks, Medhurst etc could be relied on more than say, Elliott and Dwyer, simply due to experience and familiarity with their roles. I'm a fan of Elliott and Dwyer but if you want depth players for a one-off tilt at a flag I know who I'd pick.

On the flip side, our list today has more upside so I'm more than satisfied with that.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Non-Premiership players that have been moved on (Depth players at the time if you like):
John Anthony, Jaxson Barham, Jarrad Blight, Simon Buckley, Ryan Cook, Anthony Corrie, Leon Davis, Brad Dick, Josh Fraser*, Tarkyn Lockyer*, John McCarthy, Paul Medhurst, Shane O'Bree*, Simon Prestigiacomo*, Luke Rounds, Sean Rusling, Cameron Wood.

There was some strong, experienced depth amongst that list. Although they didn't become premiership players, they were a big part of us getting to the grand final in the first place.

Who would we have on our list today who would be in that category?

OTTOMH ...

- Maxwell (outside best 22 in 2014)
- Toovey (needs to break back into 22)
- Fasolo (ditto)
- Lynch (IMHO will be depth in 2014)
- Clarke
- Goldsack

Yeah, there's some handy depth there too!

 

[Hinequarters]

No matter the future, right now this is how it has panned out

Jolly - Grundy
Daisy - Adams
Shaw - Aish/Scharenberg*
Didak - Fasolo/Elliott
Johnson - Williams
Wellingham - J Thomas
Maxwell - Seedsman
L Brown - White
Dawes - Keeffe (To release Reid forward)

Average age of premiership players = 29yrs

Average age of replacement players = 22yrs

 

[Two Eyes]

Davis was 100% best 22. We didn't move him on, he chose to leave after being offered an insultingly low contract.

 

[Old Spice]

Oh Jesuuuus

 

[Gone Critical]

Davis was 100% best 22. We didn't move him on, he chose to leave after being offered an insultingly low contract.

Wasn't insultingly low. Remember Leon had told the club either between seasons or early 2011 that he wasn't going on in 2012. His 2010 had not ended well. It was only with his move to HBF and his AA form that he had a change of heart. By that time tha salary cap had been allocated and there wasn't much left to give him. As it stood if he had taken up his offer Caff was out the door. Caff's contract was on hold until Leon decided. It was unfortunate but the club was in no position to offer more. If it did it meant offloading Caff and then another player to give Leon what he wanted.

 

[Hinequarters]

Davis was 100% best 22. We didn't move him on, he chose to leave after being offered an insultingly low contract.

That's right, how is he expected to go surfing instead of doing his rehab on a wage like that

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Simon Prestigiacomo is a Premiership Player in my opinion...

What he did... won us the Flag.

What he did during the season too, nevermind his career. All time great recent backman alongside Wakelin and of course Clement.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

2010 saw established veterans pushed out of the team for young up-coming guns. If any number of players went down, we had an experienced reliable player to come in and fill a gap.

I am bullish about next season and I like the direction the club is heading, but given the amount of players we have delisted/traded/lost this season, I don't think we're in the same position as 2010.

Our depth has been culled off this off-season. If we have the same amount of injuries we had this year, we'll have a very average season.

 

[MarkT2]

You firstly need a top end 25 or so and then depth is best measured in terms of quality rather than quantity. We had 2 200 gamers retire at the end of 2010. None of them played in the flag adn all of them could have played significant senior football for most of the competition the following year. That there were replaced by younger and, apart from Presti, better equipped players is why we had the depth to win the flag. That same assessment would not have been made early in 2010 when N Brown, Reid and Dawes were VFL players and L Brown was a journeyman at best.

At this point I do not believe out best 22 is as good or our depth as high end. We probably have less bottom end players but the middle of our list is a fair bit behind 2010. 3 or 4 players would need to emerge strongly to even be close IMO but that is far from impossible - it happened in 2010.

 

[Two Eyes]

Wasn't insultingly low. Remember Leon had told the club either between seasons or early 2011 that he wasn't going on in 2012. His 2010 had not ended well. It was only with his move to HBF and his AA form that he had a change of heart. By that time tha salary cap had been allocated and there wasn't much left to give him. As it stood if he had taken up his offer Caff was out the door. Caff's contract was on hold until Leon decided. It was unfortunate but the club was in no position to offer more. If it did it meant offloading Caff and then another player to give Leon what he wanted.

We offered him around 200k coming off a AA year. That is pretty insulting even though we no doubt had legitimate cap issues.

 

[Ed D]

We offered him around 200k coming off a AA year. That is pretty insulting even though we no doubt had legitimate cap issues.

I don't know what he was offered but he signalled that he'd only stay if he was paid overs (which the club couldn't pay) so he ended up returning back to WA. From memory no SA or WA club were interested in him which suggest his demands were a bit high.

 

[Hinequarters]

Getting torn apart by Varcoe probably didn't help

 

[Ed D]

Getting torn apart by Varcoe probably didn't help

I don't think he did to be honest. People say he was unaccountable and rubbish like that because of Varcoe's first goal. If people actually watched Davis, he left his man so Selwood didn't kick on goal 40m out directly in front. If Davis did the selfish thing and stuck with Varcoe nobody would have known. 20 disposals and 11 tackles, he was one of our best players that game.

 

[Two Eyes]

I don't know what he was offered but he signalled that he'd only stay if he was paid overs (which the club couldn't pay) so he ended up returning back to WA. From memory no SA or WA club were interested in him which suggest his demands were a bit high.

He was asking well below 300k, I don't think that was overs. His age profile didn't suit WC or Freo but that is neither here nor there. It wasn't money stopping them from drafting him.

 

[Ed D]

He was asking well below 300k, I don't think that was overs. His age profile didn't suit WC or Freo but that is neither here nor there. It wasn't money stopping them from drafting him.

From memory it was his manager who said something along the lines of Davis wanting to go to WA/SA and he'd only stay for money, which the Pies didn't have.