Discussion Prison Bars debate

[Heardy_101]

I hope McGuire's departure brings about change on this topic...








...a harder line and no more "one-off" use of our colours by an opposition club within the AFL.

It's got nothing to do with using your colours.

It's about us wanting to acknowledge and use our heritage.

 

[barrackers]

It's got nothing to do with using your colours.

It's about us wanting to acknowledge and use our heritage.

Yeah, I've been through this before. I get the argument by PA, but for mine it's impossible to transfer PA's SANFL traditional to the AFL while respecting Collingwood's V/AFL tradition as the only club with those colours in the V/AFL for over a century. It also imposes on our identity and branding. While other club share colours or jumper designs none have both being similar.

If history was different and the SANFL evolved into the national comp, which Collingwood then joined I'd love for us to wear black and white. However I'd also respect PA's tradition in that comp and accept that we'd need to find an alternative.

 

[RossFC]

Yeah, I've been through this before. I get the argument by PA, but for mine it's impossible to transfer PA's SANFL traditional to the AFL while respecting Collingwood's V/AFL tradition as the only club with those colours in the V/AFL for over a century. It also imposes on our identity and branding. While other club share colours or jumper designs none have both being similar.

If history was different and the SANFL evolved into the national comp, which Collingwood then joined I'd love for us to wear black and white. However I'd also respect PA's tradition in that comp and accept that we'd need to find an alternative.

If it was the other way round, I'd be saying for Collingwood to make an appropriate away jumper (gold based for example), while we would probs bring out the old magenta jumpers when we'd be away to face Collingwood (since silver and teal didn't exist for us before entering the AFL). Both clubs keep their home jumpers in tact, then put away jumpers on sale, both clubs make profit.

 

[bomberclifford]

However I'd also respect PA's tradition in that comp and accept that we'd need to find an alternative.

Bullshit you would.

 

[El_Scorcho]

If we were campaigning to be allowed to be called the Magpies i'd totally get it. That would be an unacceptable infringement on Collingwood's brand at this level.

But being "the only club to wear black and white" is a "tradition" Collingwood people have invented purely because of some fear of Port Adelaide. Which is bizarre. There is nothing to fear. Collingwood are famous for their black and white, sure, but only in the same way that Liverpool are famous for wearing red. The insistence that it's black and white exclusivity that is important is something that has been invented purely to stop Port.

The Prison Bar guernsey means so much more to Port Adelaide people than being the only club to wear black and white does to Collingwood people. You'd get over this debate in about 2 seconds if we started wearing the bars full time. We'll never get over being denied the most famous visual representation of our club and we'll keep pushing the issue until we get what we want.

 

[barrackers]

Bullshit you would.

Bullshit. I would.

 

[bomberclifford]

Bullshit. I would.

Easy to say when it's a hypothetical.

Nothing you've written here suggests you have any semblance of respect for Port's history and heritage.

 

[barrackers]

If we were campaigning to be allowed to be called the Magpies i'd totally get it. That would be an unacceptable infringement on Collingwood's brand at this level.

Likewise wearing the same colours in a similar design. No other clubs have both.

But being "the only club to wear black and white" is a "tradition" Collingwood people have invented purely because of some fear of Port Adelaide. Which is bizarre. There is nothing to fear.

It’s a fact and not an invention that Collingwood are the sole club to wear black and white stripes in the V/AFL.

I hold no fear of Port. In fact if it wasn’t for their constant demands of wearing Collingwood’s colours they’d be as irrelevant to me. As a lot of other clubs are.

Collingwood are famous for their black and white, sure, but only in the same way that Liverpool are famous for wearing red. The insistence that it's black and white exclusivity that is important is something that has been invented purely to stop Port.

Keep saying it’s been invented, but it’s a fact. I don’t care for soccer and what they do.

The Prison Bar guernsey means so much more to Port Adelaide people than being the only club to wear black and white does to Collingwood people.

I can’t speak for you or any other Port fan. Likewise you can’t speak for me. I won’t compare the importance to each, but it’s damn important to me that Collingwood and Collingwood alone wear black and white stripes.

You'd get over this debate in about 2 seconds if we started wearing the bars full time.

Nope. I cringe every time I see another one-off or push for more.

We'll never get over being denied the most famous visual representation of our club and we'll keep pushing the issue until we get what we want.

Why did Port agree to give up that right then? Seemingly at the time playing in the AFL was more important.

 

[barrackers]

Easy to say when it's a hypothetical.

Nothing you've written here suggests you have any semblance of respect for Port's history and heritage.

Where have I disrespected Port? I’ve merely stated I value Collingwood’s tradition and identity more highly. That’s my right. The thread title reads “debate”, which indicates there’s two sides. In the absence of slander etc merely being on the other side of the debate to you isn’t disrespectful.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Nope. I cringe every time I see another one-off or push for more.

You'll be cringing every year until we get what we want. Strap yourself in. If it makes you feel better, you'll completely forget about this about 5 seconds after we get what we want and it will have no impact on Collingwood whatsoever.

Why did Port agree to give up that right then? Seemingly at the time playing in the AFL was more important.

This is a good and smart argument. After all, playing in the AFL is the same as playing in a dying state league.

 

[barrackers]

You'll be cringing every year until we get what we want.

A legal decision is made to the contrary is the other alternative.

Strap yourself in. If it makes you feel better, you'll completely forget about this about 5 seconds after we get what we want and it will have no impact on Collingwood whatsoever.

If no impact on Collingwood was the end result Port would not have needed to change on entry and they’d be wearing black and white stripes in the AFL now.

 

[bomberclifford]

Where have I disrespected Port? I’ve merely stated I value Collingwood’s tradition and identity more highly. That’s my right. The thread title reads “debate”, which indicates there’s two sides. In the absence of slander etc merely being on the other side of the debate to you isn’t disrespectful.

The quick edit to your post above, right before you posted this, says otherwise.

 

[barrackers]

The quick edit to your post above, right before you posted this, says otherwise.

I edited the post because there was a line missing. Bigfooty glitches on my phone, which causes the cursor to jump/delete the end of paragraphs. In this case the sentence, which includes Collingwood and Collingwood ended there.

That post was also made 4 minutes after you said I was being disrespectful to Port. Given you’re seemingly able to predict the future do you mind sharing this weekend’s lotto numbers or sport outcomes?

 

[bomberclifford]

I edited the post because there was a line missing. Big footy glitches on my phone, which causes the cursor to jump/delete the end of paragraphs.

That post was also made 4 minutes after you said I was being disrespectful to Port. Given you’re seemingly able to predict the future do you mind sharing this weekend’s lotto numbers or sport outcomes?

You edited out two club names. Why?

 

[El_Scorcho]

A legal decision is made to the contrary is the other alternative.

The AFL own all the branding and the rights to use it. The decision isn't up to Port or Collingwood suing each other, it's at the AFL's discretion. Collingwood would have to sue the AFL to argue that they have some sort of trademark over the colours black and whitei in a football setting. I don't think you'd bother trying that one.

If no impact on Collingwood was the end result Port would not have needed to change on entry and they’d be wearing black and white stripes in the AFL now.

We didn't have the negotiating power when trying to join the national league to argue this point. As time has gone on, it's pretty clear that it was a poor decision by the AFL to impose this on us and eventually this wrong will be righted.

 

[barrackers]

The AFL own all the branding and the rights to use it. The decision isn't up to Port or Collingwood suing each other, it's at the AFL's discretion. Collingwood would have to sue the AFL to argue that they have some sort of trademark over the colours black and whitei in a football setting. I don't think you'd bother trying that one

That’s one way it could go. If the AFL continues to say no would Port sue?

 

[Heardy_101]

Yeah, I've been through this before. I get the argument by PA, but for mine it's impossible to transfer PA's SANFL traditional to the AFL....

Heritage is still heritage regardless of competition.

Using your logic, the expansion clubs from 1908 and 1925 have no rights to their previous jumpers when they left the old VFA to join the VFL.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

I get why PA want to change back but it is disappointing considering they have some of the best colours and guernsey in the league and have had it for 20+ years now.

 

[barrackers]

Heritage is still heritage regardless of competition.

Using your logic, the expansion clubs from 1908 and 1925 have no rights to their previous jumpers when they left the old VFA to join the VFL.

With the exception of NM who switched between royal and navy blue these clubs had their existing colours established at least for a couple of seasons prior to joining the VFL. With the exception of Rich these clubs also have jumpers similar to existing VFL clubs somewhere in their history.

Obviously they don't hold any where near the same tradition as the bars, but I'd expect Geelong, Essendon and Carlton be strongly against these previous jumpers making a permanent return even for 1-2 games per year.

Footscray - blue and white hoops for a few years only and their original jumper​

Hawthorn - black jumper with a red sash for a few years​

North - blue and white hoops for around 10 years and their original jumper​

North - navy blue with monogram for a few years including immediately prior to joining the VFL​

PA - blue and white hoops for a few years only and their original jumper​

South Melbourne - blue and white hoops for a few years only and their original jumper​

I'd also expect WB to be strongly against Collingwood wearing forerunner/disbanded club Britannia's blue, red and white, which Collingwood chose not to adopt on entry to the VFA due to a clash with Footscray.

 

[Fizzler]

Geelong literally did not care that we were going to wear the blue and white hoops this season which are the exact same design as their jumper but just lighter. The club chose not to wear it for two reasons, one being covid and two being that they didn’t want to muddy the focus from the prison bars.

 

[Pappaya]

Geelong literally did not care that we were going to wear the blue and white hoops this season which are the exact same design as their jumper but just lighter. The club chose not to wear it for two reasons, one being covid and two being that they didn’t want to muddy the focus from the prison bars.

You’d expect them to be strongly against it though. Weird!

 

[jle101]

Personally I feel a simple adjustment from a black backdrop to a silver one would look great & allow the PB's to see the light of day on a full time basis in the AFL. The black & white PB's could still be worn by the Magpies in the SANFL, keeping the tradition alive. Dunno how Port fans feel about that, but the fact of the matter is as long as Eddie is at the helm PA are gonna have to try & make a compromise of some description.

 

[Pappaya]

Personally I feel a simple adjustment from a black backdrop to a silver one would look great & allow the PB's to see the light of day on a full time basis in the AFL. The black & white PB's could still be worn by the Magpies in the SANFL, keeping the tradition alive. Dunno how Port fans feel about that, but the fact of the matter is as long as Eddie is at the helm PA are gonna have to try & make a compromise of some description.

This misses the point entirely. We want to wear our traditional guernsey, not desecrate it. We’re not interested in compromising the design. We’ve been wearing compromises for 25 years.

We’ve already worn the original Prison Bars 5 times in the AFL. There was no need to compromise the design on any of these occasions and there’ll be no need in the future. We just want to do the same thing more often.

 

[bomberclifford]

as long as Eddie is at the helm PA are gonna have to try & make a compromise of some description.

So only one more year to go then? We can wait.

 

[RossFC]

Personally I feel a simple adjustment from a black backdrop to a silver one would look great & allow the PB's to see the light of day on a full time basis in the AFL. The black & white PB's could still be worn by the Magpies in the SANFL, keeping the tradition alive. Dunno how Port fans feel about that, but the fact of the matter is as long as Eddie is at the helm PA are gonna have to try & make a compromise of some description.

The AFL reserves comp is starting to form with that eastern seaboard league. I'd hope we'd take part in that down the line with our Prison Bars jumper and Alberton home games. The SANFL rules we have are limiting our players development so much so that we have a development coach on our list.