Private Schools

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by port1978
I went to a public school & I don't believe I could have got a better education at any private school. My high school was considered the best public school in Adelaide......can't say the same about my primary school though.....

I used to think the same. I went to the best public school in Perth, and it wasn't until I swapped to a private school that I discovered it was better.

 

[Port1978]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
I used to think the same. I went to the best public school in Perth, and it wasn't until I swapped to a private school that I discovered it was better.

I still believe I couldn't have got a better education at a private school. My school was a special interest music school & no other schools had better music education......Also, I went on to Uni, got good marks & have got an excellent job now. Nothing would've been any better if I'd been to a private school.

 

[Satay Mat]

Originally posted by port1978

I still believe I couldn't have got a better education at a private school. My school was a special interest music school & no other schools had better music education......Also, I went on to Uni, got good marks & have got an excellent job now. Nothing would've been any better if I'd been to a private school.

which school did you go to ???

 

[NYPomme]

Originally posted by port1978

I still believe I couldn't have got a better education at a private school. My school was a special interest music school & no other schools had better music education......Also, I went on to Uni, got good marks & have got an excellent job now. Nothing would've been any better if I'd been to a private school.

Good for you, mate. Unfortunately many many people do not have the option of attending decent state school (public school means something different in England).

I, like you, was fortunate enough to attend an excellent state school. The unfortunate part is that for places there was a 7 to 1 ratio of application to acceptances. These figures clearly demonstrate the disparity in good and bad state schools in South London - I consider myself a lucky one ........

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Brett Li


YEah. People harp about taking away the "choice" of the individual to pay for an education. Everyone should have choice....

As Ben Elton so succintly put "Choice, yeah let's ALL choose Eton"

Private Schools rather contradict a meritocratic soceity.

Are you trying to say that everyone should have the opportunity to go to a private school?

 

[Portia]

Every taxpayer payer for their kids' basic education.

As far as I know, the government gives the same allowance per student to the school that that student attends. I don't see how its unfair to do so, their parents are already paying for state level education, and then pay extra to improve it.

Why should they have to pay for basic education through, then pay for basic education again for their kid to go to a private school, and then even more, just to get a better education for their kids?

Seems like a tax on concerned parents to think that that should be the case, really.

 

[Port1978]

Originally posted by Satay Mat


which school did you go to ???

Marryatville High in Adelaide...you know it?

 

[Port1978]

Originally posted by Brett Li

Why should the fact that a child's father earns alot educationally advantage that child over a kid from more humble background?.

Or that a child's MOTHER earns a lot......

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Brett Li
Why should the fact that a child's father earns alot educationally advantage that child over a kid from more humble background?

Because we have a currency system. Money is used to trade for goods and services. The more money people have, the better G&S they can afford. Very simple concept. What's more, the Govt provides a public school system for people who can't afford private schools. Sounds pretty fair to me.

I know that's not going to satisfy you for an answer, so let's have a look at it from your perspective.

Morally, it maybe correct, but realistically, it's absurd. Let's have a look at the possible solutions to remedy this problem;

1) Outlaw private schools, so evryone gets the same public education.

2) Raise taxes to pay for all kids to go to private schools.

3) Raise the standard of public schools so they match the standard of private schools.

Makes your argument look pretty stupid, doesn't it? There's no point in coming up with crap like this if there isn't a solution.

Private Schools perpetuate a class-driven soceity

To a minor extent I suppose. Unfortunately (for you) we can't outlaw private schools, and fortunately we don't have an established class system in Australia.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I have nothing against private schools, or its students. Like someone said, its those snotty kids in their posh blazers and HUGE school bags (they look like the Hunchback of Notredame) standing around with their noses up thinking they are better then those around them. Some of them are in for a real shock once their daddy and mummy stop bottle feeding them.

I have a lot of friends that went to private schools (even one from St. Kevins ), and they are all easy going people who don't rely on their parents.

 

[Rohan_]

Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes


(even one from St. Kevins ).

They are the best types.

 

[bunsen burner]

What's wrong with raising taxes to entice more quality teachers into public schools...what on earth is absurd about that?

Don't misquote me if you don't mind. You seem to have taken what I said out of context to make it fit in with your argument.

I don't agree with raising taxes for a start. BUT, as I have said 3 TIMES ALREADY, I believe that the govt should be spending the money they use to subsidise private schools on public schools.

As for your argument, you would have to raise taxes by an extortionate amount to be able get the standard of public schools the same as private schools. Therefore, your argument is stupid - IT"S IMPOSSIBLE!

In theory do you think that it's fair to have just public schools?

No.

no class system in Australia? wow! So the public school boys from the Sydney North shore, I met in this country must have been imposters!

Same again, you are taking what I say out of context. Maybe you should read what I have written more closely. I believe I said "established class system", i.e. like the one in India, or like the Royal family in Britain. That shi t doesn't happen hear in Australia mate.

I think alot more would be done if Public Education were compulsory......

You are so stupid. You mean make public education compulsory, so people can't go to private schools?

Do you really think the Govt would be able to ban private schools?

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Brett Li
If I understand your arguement correctly, you would prefer to pay solely for your kids education than live in a soceity that gives everyone the same privelage?

My `argument' is that every person is already paying for the same amount of education (some are paying more, but we can let that slide) for their kids.

Why should someone that wants to look after their kids better in this respect be forced to not just pay for the extra, but pay that basic amount over again? This is what some people seem to be calling for in this thread; punishing people who choose to spend money on their kids instead of on alcohol, affairs and ski holidays.

To do that would be entirely counterproductive, and punishes people who want to give their kids every edge they can.

 

[tails]

don't forget that you have your snobby state schools as well. melbourne high look down at everyone. they think they're so good cos the been hand picked.

 

[bunsen burner]

Firstly who wants to raise taxes to get them to the standard of Private Schools.

So you want to raise the standards of public schools? Fair enough, so do I. But, if they
were not improved to the standard of private schools, your whole argument is obsolete. It would still be the same system - people can pay more to send their kids to a private school because they are percieved to be better.

This is the crux of your argument isn't it - that people with money are getting an unfair advantage?

You don't want to pay more taxes?

No one does mate.

well don't whinge that the state sector is crap and you have to fork out the extra cash for
a private school.

I'm not. Your making assumptions again that suit your argument.

You have to pay for education anyway (whether thru taxes or your take-home) I would prefer
to have a FAIR system.

As I have stated 4 times now - the Govt should stop subsidising private schools and spend that money on the public schools. You can't get any more fairer than that.

Banning private schools? turning private into Public sector schools? maybe. What's the big deal?. The Government makes it compulsory to go to school, why not tell the kids which schools to go to?

Do you really think the Govt would be able to do this? I don't think so. Communism doesn't work - you have a short memory

It's impossible to raise the standards of Public education? stop dreaming BB.

Once again, you are misquoting me. I said that it is impossible to raise the
standard of public education to that of private education.

Are you telling me seriously that Private Schools don't breed an elite mentality?

I never said this either. Actually, here is a quote from one of my earlier posts
(from the first page): "Private schools, although they provide an excellent education, are the eptomy of elitism. Top boy's private schools breed the "boys club" culture."


Is there anything else that you want to misquote me on? Do you work for a tabloid by any chance?

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
As I have stated 4 times now - the Govt should stop subsidising private schools and spend that money on the public schools. You can't get any more fairer than that.

Congratulations. You just effectively raised taxes on people who send their kids to private schools, who are now paying for basic education of their kids twice over before any additional benefit is gained.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Porthos
Congratulations. You just effectively raised taxes on people who send their kids to private schools, who are now paying for basic education of their kids twice over before any additional benefit is gained.

Excuse my ignorance, but can you please explain that in more detail. I am in the dark here.


I might just retract that last statement, I went a bit OTT - I don't want them to cut of funding for private schools completely, but I would like them to reduce it. What has brought me to this view is that the current Govt has increased the spending on private schools (by quite a lot) at the expense of public schools. I think this is unfair, and should be changed.

 

[redback]

I don't think any government funding should go to private schools, why should all tax payers have to contribute to an education body that the majority can't afford to send their kids to, better put all the money into public schools so that the majority can get an good education as well as a privileged few.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by redback
I don't think any government funding should go to private schools, why should all tax payers have to contribute to an education body that the majority can't afford to send their kids to, better put all the money into public schools so that the majority can get an good education as well as a privileged few.

To the best of my knowledge, money is spread to all schools, regardless of status, on a per head basis.

Why should some tax payers (and remember, everyone is a tax payer) have to pay for the same basic level of education twice before getting any improvement?

Government funding should (and as far as I know -does-) go on a per student basis to whatever schools students are enrolled in, and the parents can make up the difference if its a private school.

This makes no additional burden on any taxpayer, because the same amount of funding would support that student whether they were at a private school or not.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Excuse my ignorance, but can you please explain that in more detail. I am in the dark here.

I might just retract that last statement, I went a bit OTT - I don't want them to cut of funding for private schools completely, but I would like them to reduce it. What has brought me to this view is that the current Govt has increased the spending on private schools (by quite a lot) at the expense of public schools. I think this is unfair, and should be changed.

If the government is giving the same amount to schools, private or public, for each student they educate, then its entirely fair.

If a given parent has been taxed x dollars to educate their child, then why should they have to pay that over again to just cover basic education, and -then- extra to get their child extra tuition?

Government funding of all education is the only fair thing...to exclude private schools is as bad as to exclude public schools - they're all in the same line of work.

 

[redback]

Easy porthos because it is taking money from an education that is for all people know matter their financial situtaion, by taking any of that & giving it to an instituation that only a minority can afford is wrong, if people can afford to send their kids to a private school good on them, but you can't expect poor people to subsidise the rich, currently this is what is happening., that is why private school fees have dropped so much in the last ten years because they get more government funding & why public school education has declined.

 

[Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk]

When i went to private school i could not stand it and got very sick for the year. I found the people there to be the most pathetic people i had ever met (actually 2nd most) Those who had already came through the primary years there were already in their cliques and were the rudest bunch of bitches. Too much focus was on sport and the type of car your parents drove. There is no way that these people could survive out in the real world. I was much happier moving to public school as it was a warm welcoming environment where you could be yourself. Had i stayed at private school i may well have had a spot at university now but i think i am a better person after moving.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by redback
Easy porthos because it is taking money from an education that is for all people know matter their financial situtaion, by taking any of that & giving it to an instituation that only a minority can afford is wrong

How is it unfairly taking money from that institution? i would've thought it was an equal share on a per student basis.

If a school is getting less money, its because it has less students. If it has less students, it needs less money.

if people can afford to send their kids to a private school good on them, but you can't expect poor people to subsidise the rich

Where is that coming from? As far as I'm aware, the more money you make, the more tax you pay, not just as an amount, but as a percentage.

And the point is that its the exact same amount of money going towards any students education, whether its in a public or private school. How can that be unfair?

That is why private school fees have dropped so much in the last ten years because they get more government funding & why public school education has declined.

Where more government funding = more than zero, yes?

How exactly has public school education declined from ten years ago? Are there proportionately less high school graduates? Proportionately less public school students going to uni?

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Brett Li

1. They have a statiscally better chance of achieving good exam results.

The crux of my argument is that I believe every child should receive equal chance of getting the first.

My point is that it needs an injection of cash to improve this.

These two statements contradict one another. On one hand, you are saying the opportunity for achieving good exam results should be equal, and on the other you are saying that the chances (of public school children) should just be improved.

I agree that there needs to be an injection of cash, but to inject the amount of cash to make the oppotunities equal is near impossible.

Tell me BB, if they are require this subsidy what would happen if you have your way and ban this money?. More Private School Fees? You don't want to pay taxes, but you do want the chocie of paying more tuition fees? your logic? or am I still misquoting you?

You're not misquoting me at all. This isn't about me. It's about what I think is fair to the majority of the population.

It might be the same amount of money, but where it comes from is much more important. Rather the average person having to pay extra taxes, the subsidy (or part of) should be used for the public schools. All this means is the people who want the private school education are paying, rather than everyone else as well.

Since when has being anti public school been akin to being a communist? glad to see the gloves are finally coming off.

Although I haven't been entirely clear, you are having trouble grasping my point.

The point is this: If the Govt all of a sudden said, "Right, we're going to close all the private schools down so that everyone is equal", there would be outrage. Smacks of communism. The Australian public wouldn't let this happen. The private schools would file law suits - and they would win.

Closing down all private schools is not an option. It just won't happen.

Ok. So you don't think that a pay increase from the state will entice the best teachers back into the state system?.

No. They would have to raise them a lot to start off with. Then the private schools would raise theirs, and we would be back to square one.

I'm all for raising the wages. It will attract a better standard of teacher, but most wouldn't be from the private sector. The gap between private and public schools is near impossible to bridge.

or do you believe rich-kids are inherintly more intelligent than ordinary kids?

Absolutely not.

So you are against the elitism that exists within these schools?

Like I said before, I don't agree with it, but there are pros and cons about private education. Having experienced both, I believe the pros outweigh the cons.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Porthos
If the government is giving the same amount to schools, private or public, for each student they educate, then its entirely fair.

As far as I know they aren't. I'm very sure that in the last few years Howard has increased the proportion of spending on private schools at the expense of public school funding. I was quite shocked when I saw the figures (can't remeber them though).

His mentality is that now more families will be able to afford a private education. Hardly fair on the families that still won't be able to afford it.

Maybe someone wants to see if they can find the figures - maybe in this or last year's budget.