Progress?

[PieBeast]

Progress?
Well yes it's minor but definitely there.
Thing is we couldn't get much worse and have taken baby steps with the natural improvement from our youngsters and addition of Treloar.
There was also a glimpse of Buckley being prepared to change his pig-headed ways in regards to our infamous zone, we won't mention the fact this came after Ed whispered it not so quietly into his ear. Going some way to getting rid of massive and obvious selection blunders could be the next step of the program, well I'm allowed to dream am I not..

So yes we've improved across the board, just not enough to say the future looks bright, this pain was all worth it and we will be challenging any time soon.

 

[DaVe86]

Although the club made it a public goal to make finals this year, they've also been on record saying they were planning around 2017.

This is why I'm quite happy that we are playing better footy in the second half of this year, because we are building towards a stronger pre-season.

There will be no excuses next year. Realistically, we were meant to make finals this year, and really challenge next year. Therefore, even scraping into the 8 may not be enough. We have to genuinely challenge next year. It's a big leap to take, but I think we cannot reward mediocrity much longer. The time has come to see results now.

 

[PicaBoo]

Probably get flamed but I reckon if we win 3 out of next 4 and play like the last weeks, we haven't done too bad in the end considering circumstances.
I think we have proven we have a team more then capable of playing finals.
Disappointed we didn't make finals and will rue the winnable games we lost. Safe to say that with the progress of our youngsters, without certain individuals in the team and others back in, those scenario's shouldn't repeat next year.
Overall good progress in young players, future is looking bright but the clouds hung around a lot more then expected.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Is it really a coincidence that only weeks after Matt Rendell starts taking more of a role as a ruck coach that Grundy bursts out in an AFL level, almost All Australian level ruckman?

Grundy had previously been instructed by Anthony Rocca only, that was the only time I ever saw any ruck coaching at all during training sessions.

But this year, especially the last 2 months or so, Rendell has taken the ruck sessions at training, and you can see the improvement in Grundy.

Just staggering to think that why we didn't do it earlier, Rendell has been at the club for a fair while now, but glad we have got some assistance for Brodie, Witts, Cox and co now.

Does not surprise, if the club wants to be serious they need to move on assistant coaches who arent up to it this summer.

Wouldn't mind seeing the midfield coach moved on as well because it's pretty poor being last in clearances behind Essendon*, Freo, Bris etc..

 

[sr36]

He isn't. Can we just put this one to bed once and for all? If it were anyone at the club it's Rocca.

Why are you so convinced that Rocca can't coach ruckwork?

 

[left at home]

Why are you so convinced that Rocca can't coach ruckwork?

results before the bye prove it

 

[good4footy]

you are naive if you believe that Coll would breach the FD cap - it would be a PR disaster that would put us at odds with the AFL - there is no way that Ed would want that hanging over the club.

Not sure you understand how the FD spend works No Spin. The rules allow for you to spend more, just pay a tax to do so. There is no PR disaster - it's not a salary cap breach which is not allowed.

My frustration comes from:

1) The fact we actually need to to upgrade our FD when Hawthorn spend the same and get it right

2) Despite not being as efficient, we let the on- field suffer despite having the capability to spend more and just cop the tax.

We either need to get better with the same spend or spend more to get better- either are avenues we can explore. The rules allow the later if that's the way we go.

 

[Scodog10]

you are naive if you believe that Coll would breach the FD cap - it would be a PR disaster that would put us at odds with the AFL - there is no way that Ed would want that hanging over the club.

Nah the club would be naive not too. Its backwards thinking like yours that has seen us us tumble down the ladder. Cutting spending never results in positive results unless you're employing the absolute best in the business, which we aren't.

Also if that's what Ed's attitude is its time for change because a stubborn approach of "we're above a tax" certainly isn't helping ATM.

FWIW if we know the tax is going that's a different discussion because it'll naturally allow us to spend more, but not spending money due to a nominal tax is a joke when it's been the difference between a finals berth and mediocrity this year.

 

[Prestige Presti]

I think it all needs to be put into perspective. If you had told me at the start of the year that...

Of our two leading goal kickers from 2015, One would miss the entire season and one would lose all of his form and be dropped multiple times.

A much improved Swan would miss the entire season.

We would rely on a bloke from America, Jessie White and a second year player to carry our forward line for most of the season.

Our captain would play most of the season carrying an injury or two.

Our rock in defense in Brown would be dropped to the twos and many of our club leaders would be out of form.

We would have the second worst injury list in the comp and play almost our entire list throughout the season (39 players)


If you had told me all of the above I think I along with most of this board would have had us outside the 8, almost around the mark we are now, if not lower. As Hawthorn of 2009 taught me, no matter how talented, young sides simply can't survive injuries, perhaps in a few years when we have a matured list, but not now whilst still in development.

But injury breeds opportunity, we have increased our depth going into 2017, and we have a large number of players to return through injury and through league suspension, further increasing our depth.

We've got precious game time into Moore, Fasolo, Smith, Reid, Cox, Marsh, Aish, De Goey, Grundy, barring Reid, all of which have room for improvement and will take us forward as a club.

Jeremy Howe and Treloar are another two individuals who have improved in our system, alongside Crisp, Varcoe is indication our recruitment system and talent identification has improved from previous years.

Our VFL team is on fire, before the Bulldogs rise into the 8, their seconds won the premiership, I think a VFL team is a good indication of the development depth and youth, if we can win a final or two (or 3) it would be a great result for us.

The end of last season, we completely dropped off when finals was out of the picture (Richmonds flogging still hurts) however having a club record in tackles on the weekend, essentially in what was a meaningless game for us, indicates we are a very proud group, and is a great sign and contrast to teams in similar positions like Richmond. There is still a chance we can finish above 11th on the ladder which in itself would show visible signs of improvement.

Still a few games to go, but there are certainly positives to come out of this season, and if we give the trade period a good crack, we will be in a very good position to give 2017 a red hot crack.

 

[Scodog10]

Why are you so convinced that Rocca can't coach ruckwork?

I can't just dialogue it all on a public forum so the best I can say is take a look at the first quarter v GWS from Grundy against the rest of the match. I honestly don't mind having Rocca at the club in a coaching capacity (unlike Lockyer) I'm just not going to sing his praises for the growth in Grundy's game. Then there's Rendell's role in it which is non-existent.

FWIW of the football department changes I'd like to see a new ruck coach may be one, but it is an extremely low priority compared to other changes.

 

[76woodenspooners]

2. It's not core business. I'm ok with investing in other areas, but only once the core business is running on all cylinders and you agree it currently isn't.

Our core business is defined by the Club's Articles of Association.

And a reading of them reveals that operating a women's netball team would be well within scope.

 

[surfer1]

Yeah the talents definitely there! I can only imagine how things would have gone had we employed a player development manager this year and not had avoidable player management issues to the likes of Witts, Langdon and Broomhead. Frustrating, but unfortunately out of control the club just needs to hold those in control responsible...

I am curious as to what the player management issues were/are with Witts, Langdon and Broomhead and what in your opinion, given you have said there are issues they could have been avoidable? I assume you are not talking about injury management.

 

[Scodog10]

Our core business is defined by the Club's Articles of Association.

And a reading of them reveals that operating a women's netball team would be well within scope.

Barking up the wrong tree on that one because that's not how I define our core business.

Once the Collingwood FOOTBALL Club changes its name to the Collingwood Community Club I may consider Netball an element of our core business at which point I'll way up where I stand in relation to my support of the club, but until such time football is and will remain our core business regardless of the technical aspects of the clubs Articles Of Association.

 

[Scodog10]

I am curious as to what the player management issues were/are with Witts, Langdon and Broomhead and what in your opinion, given you have said there are issues they could have been avoidable? I assume you are not talking about injury management.

All injury management. IMO, Witts would have been better off with further attention given to treatment of wounds...

Broomhead was sent back on field post shoulder knocks twice in 6 months.

The less said on Langdon the better.

 

[surfer1]

Grundy's current form and progress clearly demonstrates we need a ruck coach...

Or to put another spin on it demonstrates we have a ruck coach?

 

[surfer1]

All injury management. Witts may have been a bit better off with further attention given to treatment of wounds, Broomhead was sent back on field post shoulder knocks twice in 6 months and the less said on Langdon the better.

That's ok then, I misread your meaning a bit but this whole injury management thing is contentious, where does the buck stop, you could I suppose add Fasolo as well

 

[left at home]

on getting the right amount of coaches, l agree spend the money and pay the tax.
the young talent need it

 

[Scodog10]

That's ok then, I misread your meaning a bit but this whole injury management thing is contentious, where does the buck stop, you could I suppose add Fasolo as well

I probably didn't make it clear the football department is a frustrating topic for me (almost as frustrating as discussing what a football clubs core business is). It's time to start again with "high performance" I don't think anyone could deny they've been given a fair shot at fixing things!

 

[MooreTreloar]

We're not going to go 2-9 in the second half of the year or even 3-8 like we did in 2015 & 2014. I think we're slowly on the right track. A good off season, less injuries and natural progression and hopefully we're looking at finals in 2017.

 

[10571z]

Making the 8 was the minimum expectation for me this season so it's been huge a failure. Our season was over in July.

This. My expectations dont change because we go worse. Some horrible losses so Carlton, Saints, Melbourne ect should have been wins meaning we would be where we wanted.

 

[Apex36]

I am curious as to what the player management issues were/are with Witts, Langdon and Broomhead and what in your opinion, given you have said there are issues they could have been avoidable? I assume you are not talking about injury management.

Pretty sure he's talking about injury management.

Witts - Infected webbing, club didn't check wound for 2 days after he reported it was feeling funny (from what I've heard).

Langdon - knee injury mysteriously flaring up early in the year after he went in to have it drained.

Broomhead - sent back on the ground after injuring his shoulder. Again.

 

[surfer1]

Pretty sure he's talking about injury management.

Witts - Infected webbing, club didn't check wound for 2 days after he reported it was feeling funny (from what I've heard).

Langdon - knee injury mysteriously flaring up early in the year after he went in to have it drained.

Broomhead - sent back on the ground after injuring his shoulder. Again.

Yes he cleared that up for me

 

[PieBeast]

I think it all needs to be put into perspective. If you had told me at the start of the year that...

Of our two leading goal kickers from 2015, One would miss the entire season and one would lose all of his form and be dropped multiple times.

A much improved Swan would miss the entire season.

We would rely on a bloke from America, Jessie White and a second year player to carry our forward line for most of the season.

Our captain would play most of the season carrying an injury or two.

Our rock in defense in Brown would be dropped to the twos and many of our club leaders would be out of form.

We would have the second worst injury list in the comp and play almost our entire list throughout the season (39 players)


If you had told me all of the above I think I along with most of this board would have had us outside the 8, almost around the mark we are now, if not lower. As Hawthorn of 2009 taught me, no matter how talented, young sides simply can't survive injuries, perhaps in a few years when we have a matured list, but not now whilst still in development.

But injury breeds opportunity, we have increased our depth going into 2017, and we have a large number of players to return through injury and through league suspension, further increasing our depth.

We've got precious game time into Moore, Fasolo, Smith, Reid, Cox, Marsh, Aish, De Goey, Grundy, barring Reid, all of which have room for improvement and will take us forward as a club.

Jeremy Howe and Treloar are another two individuals who have improved in our system, alongside Crisp, Varcoe is indication our recruitment system and talent identification has improved from previous years.

Our VFL team is on fire, before the Bulldogs rise into the 8, their seconds won the premiership, I think a VFL team is a good indication of the development depth and youth, if we can win a final or two (or 3) it would be a great result for us.

The end of last season, we completely dropped off when finals was out of the picture (Richmonds flogging still hurts) however having a club record in tackles on the weekend, essentially in what was a meaningless game for us, indicates we are a very proud group, and is a great sign and contrast to teams in similar positions like Richmond. There is still a chance we can finish above 11th on the ladder which in itself would show visible signs of improvement.

Still a few games to go, but there are certainly positives to come out of this season, and if we give the trade period a good crack, we will be in a very good position to give 2017 a red hot crack.

This is a very positive post








but I like it

 

[JB1975]

It's a bit early to put a final grade on the season, but overall it feels like we've made some sort of progress. I didn't expect us to make finals this year and so I'm not especially disappointed by the lack of September action, and our performances against some of the better teams shows that we're capable. I've also been encouraged by the strong showing in the second half of the season, while the merry-go-round of players will hold us in good stead for next year.

There are some troubling things. Other posters have highlighted shoddy skills, and I agree that there are too many players with sub-standard foot disposal. That isn't something which will magically resolve itself in between seasons. If it isn't sub-par skills then it's stagnant football which also troubles me, and it still appears to me that our movement going forward is very uncertain. We have, though, been better setting up defensively since the St Kilda game (which has left a scar on my psyche).

So there has been some progress, and right now I feel confident that we'll snaffle 7th or 8th next season.

 

[TradeDraft]

They're not new positions, we've had a cycle of plugging holes since the end of 2014. I'll ignore the promotion of Eade from Football and Coaching Strategist to Director Football at the end of 2013 as I think that position was to give Buckley an experienced hand

2014 - we had a full quota of positions (coach, 3 line assistant coaches, 1 development coach, 3 line development coaches, 1 ruck coach)

Hudson moved back to Brisbane, Lappin (forward assistant) was cut
​

2015 - no ruck coach, no backline development coach

Grace stepped into Lappin's role, no one replaced Grace as backline development coach
​

2016 - no ruck coach, no development manager

McCrae moved on and was not replaced, Rivers brought in as backline development coach filling the hole left by Grace's promotion 12 months prior
​

I'd assume Tapping has filled some of the void by the vacant development manager, however for mine having a development manager is not negotiable and the VFL coach and development manager need to be separate positions. Pay the money or tax if need be. A ruck coach could be an area of saving through dual roles, but only if you have someone on your coaching panel who's an AFL experienced ruck, which we don't.

It's just Eddie adding having a Sook over the Salary Cap for the Footy Department. He is taking a Stand that Hurts the Club and Footy Department