Proposed Hub Arrangement

[Help My Club]

Aahhh forgive me, I misunderstood.

IF the AFL create alternative working conditions that most players find fair and acceptable then the ones that stand down forfeit their pay unless they can demonstrate exceptional circumstances. I hesitate that I might be oversimplifying this.

Totally agree. This is equitable.

 

[jathanas]

Yes the employer has changed the working environment, just as other employers have done. At my work for instance some staff have to work from home nowadays. We have no choice if we want to keep working and geting paid. The players are no different - if they can't adapt to the new way of working, then they can sit at home and get no pay.

Not the same thing. Has your employer asked you to leave your home and go somewhere far from your immediate family for 20 weeks?

I'm sure most people can get by fine if they had to work from home or somewhere else that still offers reasonable access to immediate family.

People have different standards for themselves and the players.

 

[jackcass]

Why should they get paid?

Because that's what they've negotiated with the AFL.

They're not working.

Well yes they are. They're required by the clubs to maintain training regimes. That's "working".

They should get Job Keeper because they've effectively stood themselves sown under that scenario .

Why? In the scenario being discussed the AFL is asking them to do something that was never included in their contracts. Why should they be forced into doing something that they haven't signed up for?

 

[jmac70]

“Senior AFL players have on Tuesday night threatened to stand themselves down from the remainder of the AFL season if their families can’t attend the quarantined hubs which will be established in June.

“Richmond players were extremely vocal when told partners and children might not be able to attend the hubs.”

If the AFL season is unable to commence or is compromised because sufficient players are not happy with the proposed Hub arrangements, that's OK. I know its an old chestnut but what are people's thoughts regarding those players who choose to stand down, which of course is their right. Should they continue to be paid?

I support their right not to play, but they should take the 70% pay cut.

 

[Capital Magpie]

Because that's what they've negotiated with the AFL.



Well yes they are. They're required by the clubs to maintain training regimes. That's "working".



Why? In the scenario being discussed the AFL is asking them to do something that was never included in their contracts. Why should they be forced into doing something that they haven't signed up for?

See my post above. We all have to work differently now because of the damned virus. AFL players aren't any different.

 

[jackcass]

Well they are being well paid for training at home and being with their families for what has and will be an extended period.

Should their employer, effectively the AFL, after careful consideration propose an arrangement whereby the season can get up and running and subsequently other people can get back to gainful employment, one could argue that they have an obligation to play, if only morally. Again though if a player chooses not to play that is his right. However should he be paid particularly if other players are prepared to play?

One could argue that but when push comes to shove it would count for 3/5's of FA.

Whether or not other players are agreeable to (the proposed quarantine hub lockdown) 20 weeks in a hub has absolutely zero bearing on any individual who decides he can't do it.

 

[jackcass]

Yes the employer has changed the working environment, just as other employers have done. At my work for instance some staff have to work from home nowadays. We have no choice if we want to keep working and geting paid. The players are no different - if they can't adapt to the new way of working, then they can sit at home and get no pay.

Players are required to complete training regimes in anticipation of a resumption of proceedings. That's a bit different than someone who opts not to work from home to maintain their income stream.

 

[jackcass]

Fair point. If you choose not to play, no pay. But I reckon the likes of senior players such as Dangerfield and Riewoldt who would threaten to stand down, would still expect to be paid. This is in essence the point I'm trying to make.

As they should be as long as they continue to meet the club provided training regime.

 

[jackcass]

See my post above. We all have to work differently now because of the damned virus. AFL players aren't any different.

Yep, got to that and responded to your post above.

 

[Help My Club]

Not the same thing. Has your employer asked you to leave your home and go somewhere far from your immediate family for 20 weeks?

I'm sure most people can get by fine if they had to work from home or somewhere else that still offers reasonable access to immediate family.

People have different standards for themselves and the players.

I can think of some blokes who would love 20

Because that's what they've negotiated with the AFL.



Well yes they are. They're required by the clubs to maintain training regimes. That's "working".



Why? In the scenario being discussed the AFL is asking them to do something that was never included in their contracts. Why should they be forced into doing something that they haven't signed up for?

These are all reasonable arguments.

Just wonderin what mainstream Aussie employees would do if their options were : (i) stay at home your choice - no pay (ii) be prepared to relocate away from your family for say 6 months - get paid at something less than 100% of normal pay.

 

[Capital Magpie]

Just on the question of whether/what the players who refuse to go into the hub should be paid, I initially said they should get nothing because they're refusing to work as the employer has asked them to.
However thinking about it a bit more, I think they should get 30%, which I think was what the AFL and the players agreed they would be paid if the lock down went past a certain date (1 August).

 

[Help My Club]

As they should be as long as they continue to meet the club provided training regime.

Fair enough.

So by extension, should those players who choose to stand down get a further % haircut vis a vis those who choose to play?

 

[Capital Magpie]

I can think of some blokes who would love 20


These are all reasonable arguments.

Just wonderin what mainstream Aussie employees would do if their options were : (i) stay at home your choice - no pay (ii) be prepared to relocate away from your family for say 6 months - get paid at something less than 100% of normal pay.

If they play wouldn't they get 100% of their usual pay?

 

[jackcass]

I can think of some blokes who would love 20


These are all reasonable arguments.

Just wonderin what mainstream Aussie employees would do if their options were : (i) stay at home your choice - no pay (ii) be prepared to relocate away from your family for say 6 months - get paid at something less than 100% of normal pay.

Where are these other people who are being asked to work from home who are subsequently being told "well when we said home we actually meant 1000 km's away in a detention centre" and "Nah, sorry your family can't come with you but it's only for 20 weeks so what the heck eh"

 

[jackcass]

Fair enough.

So by extension, should those players who choose to stand down get a further % haircut vis a vis those who choose to play?

I'd assume a continuation of the current reduced pay rates would be appropriate.

 

[Help My Club]

A little perspective:

Chris Fagan:

Chris Fagan drew comparisons to the plight of Neale Daniher, and the reluctance of some players to consider the hubs.

“It made me think ‘how would Neale handle this,'” Fagan told SEN radio on Thursday.

“When you think about [his battle] and then you think about what we’re faced with … it’s relatively minor, it’s short term.

“We’re not going to jail, we’re not going to die, we’re not going to war, it will end, we will get back to normal [but] it’s just going to take a bit of sacrifice for a while.

“I figure right now what we need to do is actually suck it up and do what’s best for the game in the hope that we can return to where we’ve been at over the past 50 years.”

Jason Dunstall:

“But Dunstall said “in tough times everyone has to make sacrifices”.
I understand the players with their concerns – and I can only imagine (for) young families the stress that it might put on if the player was to have to leave that young family for a period of time. But I think we also need to look at the bigger picture,” Dunstall told Fox Footy Live on Wednesday night.

“That’s not just as broadcasters from our perspective, or as the players from a players’ perspective or even from the clubs’ perspectives. This is an industry that employs so many people and we’re talking about every day, salt-of-the-earth men and women who have to support their families.”

Cam Mooney:

“(But) this is bigger than just the 700, 800 players. We’re talking thousands and thousands of people who need employment from our game to survive, to live, to have a job, to put food on the table.”

And then our Big Ed:

“Collingwood president Eddie McGuire has labelled a scenario that would see AFL clubs stay in quarantine hubs for up to 20 weeks as “complete rubbish”.
“There is more chance of me being in the Carlton cheer squad from that happening.
“I actually feel really angry that so many of the players have been geed up; their partners, already under stress, have been further stressed.”

 

[jackcass]

A little perspective:

Chris Fagan:

Chris Fagan drew comparisons to the plight of Neale Daniher, and the reluctance of some players to consider the hubs.

“It made me think ‘how would Neale handle this,'” Fagan told SEN radio on Thursday.

“When you think about [his battle] and then you think about what we’re faced with … it’s relatively minor, it’s short term.

“We’re not going to jail, we’re not going to die, we’re not going to war, it will end, we will get back to normal [but] it’s just going to take a bit of sacrifice for a while.

“I figure right now what we need to do is actually suck it up and do what’s best for the game in the hope that we can return to where we’ve been at over the past 50 years.”

Jason Dunstall:

“But Dunstall said “in tough times everyone has to make sacrifices”.
I understand the players with their concerns – and I can only imagine (for) young families the stress that it might put on if the player was to have to leave that young family for a period of time. But I think we also need to look at the bigger picture,” Dunstall told Fox Footy Live on Wednesday night.

“That’s not just as broadcasters from our perspective, or as the players from a players’ perspective or even from the clubs’ perspectives. This is an industry that employs so many people and we’re talking about every day, salt-of-the-earth men and women who have to support their families.”

Cam Mooney:

“(But) this is bigger than just the 700, 800 players. We’re talking thousands and thousands of people who need employment from our game to survive, to live, to have a job, to put food on the table.”

And then our Big Ed:

“Collingwood president Eddie McGuire has labelled a scenario that would see AFL clubs stay in quarantine hubs for up to 20 weeks as “complete rubbish”.
“There is more chance of me being in the Carlton cheer squad from that happening.
“I actually feel really angry that so many of the players have been geed up; their partners, already under stress, have been further stressed.”

Well opinions anyway.

 

[Vicky Park]

Do we need quarantine hubs to restart the season? Why can’t we wait a few more months - we might even eradicate the virus! - to play shorter games over a more concentrated period? No spectators, but rigorous testing of players and club staff. And lots of cleaning! Who cares if the season finishes in December.

 

[sideswipe]

A little perspective:

Chris Fagan:

Chris Fagan drew comparisons to the plight of Neale Daniher, and the reluctance of some players to consider the hubs.

“It made me think ‘how would Neale handle this,'” Fagan told SEN radio on Thursday.

“When you think about [his battle] and then you think about what we’re faced with … it’s relatively minor, it’s short term.

“We’re not going to jail, we’re not going to die, we’re not going to war, it will end, we will get back to normal [but] it’s just going to take a bit of sacrifice for a while.

“I figure right now what we need to do is actually suck it up and do what’s best for the game in the hope that we can return to where we’ve been at over the past 50 years.”

Jason Dunstall:

“But Dunstall said “in tough times everyone has to make sacrifices”.
I understand the players with their concerns – and I can only imagine (for) young families the stress that it might put on if the player was to have to leave that young family for a period of time. But I think we also need to look at the bigger picture,” Dunstall told Fox Footy Live on Wednesday night.

“That’s not just as broadcasters from our perspective, or as the players from a players’ perspective or even from the clubs’ perspectives. This is an industry that employs so many people and we’re talking about every day, salt-of-the-earth men and women who have to support their families.”

Cam Mooney:

“(But) this is bigger than just the 700, 800 players. We’re talking thousands and thousands of people who need employment from our game to survive, to live, to have a job, to put food on the table.”

And then our Big Ed:

“Collingwood president Eddie McGuire has labelled a scenario that would see AFL clubs stay in quarantine hubs for up to 20 weeks as “complete rubbish”.
“There is more chance of me being in the Carlton cheer squad from that happening.
“I actually feel really angry that so many of the players have been geed up; their partners, already under stress, have been further stressed.”

You are all being conned. This is just grandstanding so the players can say, “Honey I did really fight to get you and the kids to come along, but those pricks at the afl wouldn’t agree. It will be tough in Queensland. See you in a few months.”


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Help My Club]

You are all being conned. This is just grandstanding so the players can say, “Honey I did really fight to get you and the kids to come along, but those pricks at the afl wouldn’t agree. It will be tough in Queensland. See you in a few months.”


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That's an angle and I like it. 20 weeks in the Qld or WA climate as opposed to a cold Melbourne winter. Hmm!

 

[jmac70]

Yes they should get paid.

This hub has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas to ever to come out of the AFL. I know they're desperate to get it up and running again.. but under these circumstances? Really quite shocking. Away from family. Sub standard facilities. Held there against their own free will.

What a f joke.

The Gimp has nailed this from long range, despite his creepy infatuation with a granny.

Hub idea is a crock a shit man.

 

[jathanas]

Do we need quarantine hubs to restart the season? Why can’t we wait a few more months - we might even eradicate the virus! - to play shorter games over a more concentrated period? No spectators, but rigorous testing of players and club staff. And lots of cleaning! Who cares if the season finishes in December.

If a player gets infected when the season restarts and passes it on to his teammates, it's virtualy season over again. A quarantine hub AKA detention centre guarantees that players can't be infected because there will be controlled entry into the area.

If we eradicate the virus i.e. 4 weeks without new cases, then that's a new ball game but the AFL can't bank on that outcome.

I think a hub (or a controlled environment of sorts might be inevitable) but the duration of the season will need to be reduced. 20 weeks away from family is next level ridiculous.

 

[Black_White]

There’s a Collingwood player who’s partner is expecting.
I would certainly support him if he chose to stand aside to be with her at this time instead of becoming a virtual prisoner.

 

[magpies42]

Yes they should get paid.

This hub has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas to ever to come out of the AFL. I know they're desperate to get it up and running again.. but under these circumstances? Really quite shocking. Away from family. Sub standard facilities. Held there against their own free will.

What a f joke.

Why should they get paid?

I would pitch along these lines, you either do as is desired by your employer and the fans or we cancel the season and you don’t get paid. If they still choose time with family over feeding the family then that is their prerogative. Nobody should be held against their will as you say.

Senior players have the luxury to forgo pay, juniors and the majority of lists don’t. I would be disappointed if our senior players chose not to play.

I’m not for or against the hub model, just think if you don’t want to play you shouldn’t get paid. Many other Australians don’t have an option.!

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Why should they get paid?

I would pitch along these lines, you either do as is desired by your employer and the fans or we cancel the season and you don’t get paid. If they still choose time with family over feeding the family then that is their prerogative. Nobody should be held against their will as you say.

Senior players have the luxury to forgo pay, juniors and the majority of lists don’t. I would be disappointed if our senior players chose not to play.

I’m not for or against the hub model, just think if you don’t want to play you shouldn’t get paid. Many other Australians don’t have an option.!

The hub model is disgusting.. what 4-5 mths away from your family.. you have every right to say 'no'.. so you do say 'no' to being treated like a piece of meat.. so the result is no pay?

If you're not against the hub model.. have you yourself given thought to leaving your family behind.. if you do have a partner and kids.. and expecting them to fend for themselves for 4-5 mths?

You have got to be kidding me.