Quintessential XIs

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STFU Donnie said:
I'm probably overstating it a bit, but I read a lot of cricket biographies from players active in county cricket in the 80s and he wasn't very popular. Great bowler though.
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He wasn’t quite as mean or fast as Clarke but he still had a nasty reputation as a bowler - Wayne Daniel once played for north Sydney (?) I think in the Sydney grade comp.

My former chief of staff was once a nsw second xi player and opened for Penrith with Trevor Bayliss. They rocked up to north Sydney oval one day and saw Daniel warming up.

Lost the toss and batted.

My CoS said he lost a coin toss to face first. Said the first ball was on his eyebrows before he saw it and he blindly hooked it out of the ground.

Next ball he didn’t see but he sure heard the stump flying. Said he’s never been so glad to get out
 
PhatBoy said:
I wasn’t aware of teammates’ opinions on him but was well across just how mean the guy was as soon as he had a ball in hand
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Interesting article here: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/c...vester-clarke-cricket-fast-bowler-west-indies

Think going to South Africa might be a big reason for Windies team mates not liking him, even guys like Colin Croft were pariahs in both personal and professional life for that.

Also this:
He would sometimes get most incensed by tailenders who backed away: instead of taking the opportunity to bowl them, he would ensure that however far they went to leg, the ball would follow. Those on the right side of him were loyal and affectionate: “He was one of the nicest blokes I ever met,” said his team-mate Alec Stewart.
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www.espncricinfo.com

Sylvester Clarke

CLARKE, SYLVESTER THEOPHILUS, died suddenly on December 4, 1999, aged 44
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

So at least Alec Stewart liked him. I think following tailenders don leg is a pretty low act back in the pre-helmet semi-professional days though.
 
PhatBoy said:
He wasn’t quite as mean or fast as Clarke but he still had a nasty reputation as a bowler - Wayne Daniel once played for north Sydney (?) I think in the Sydney grade comp.

My former chief of staff was once a nsw second xi player and opened for Penrith with Trevor Bayliss. They rocked up to north Sydney oval one day and saw Daniel warming up.

Lost the toss and batted.

My CoS said he lost a coin toss to face first. Said the first ball was on his eyebrows before he saw it and he blindly hooked it out of the ground.

Next ball he didn’t see but he sure heard the stump flying. Said he’s never been so glad to get out
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Diametric opposite to Clarke, From my readings very few had a bad word to say about Daniel.

Not a lot of science to his action, just a barrel chested chap with a heap of natural power.

 

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I think this side played together in 92-93
Haynes
Simmons
Richardson
Lara
Hooper
Arthurton
Murray
Bishop
Ambrose
Walsh
Patterson


Couple of holes there with Murray and Simmons (I think Adam’s MAY have played a test or two that series? David Williams did as well - Murray was no Dujon but he was a hell of a lot better with the stick than Williams) but still overall a very strong side
 
PhatBoy said:
I think this side played together in 92-93
Haynes
Simmons
Richardson
Lara
Hooper
Arthurton
Murray
Bishop
Ambrose
Walsh
Patterson


Couple of holes there with Murray and Simmons (I think Adam’s MAY have played a test or two that series? David Williams did as well - Murray was no Dujon but he was a hell of a lot better with the stick than Williams) but still overall a very strong side
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Sorry PB, but that XI never played together in 92-93. Adams played 3 tests, and Patterson, Cummins and Kenny Benjamin all played a single test.

Here is the series page from Howstat:

http://howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Series/SeriesStats.asp?SeriesCode=0325
 
Richard Pryor said:
Ricky Ponting's Australians 2005

1. Langer
2. Hayden
3. Ponting (c)
4. Martyn
5. Clarke
6. Katich
7. Gilchrist (wk)
8. Warne
9. Lee
10. Gillespie
11. McGrath

www.espncricinfo.com

ENG vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, , 1st Test at London, July 21 - 24, 2005

Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, ENG vs AUS, Australia tour of England and Scotland 2005 at Lord's, London dated July 21 - 24, 2005.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

Only odd one out is perhaps Katich who while great is not as "legendary" as the rest, but the rest are all important parts of the post-Waugh era of dominance. Lee is not the best in Tests but probably the most marketable cricketer of the generation.
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Katich and Martyn's Test records are very comparable. Not sure why Martyn gets lauded so highly sometimes, perhaps because he was an elegant player? Or because he was talked up by past players
 
Some Idiot said:
Katich and Martyn's Test records are very comparable. Not sure why Martyn gets lauded so highly sometimes, perhaps because he was an elegant player? Or because he was talked up by past players
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I imagine it’s because Martyn was a regular member of that great batting lineup where Katich performed best later on in a less memorable side. This and the elegance of Martyn I guess. I’m a big fan of both players for the record.

Out of interest. Katich averaged 50 as Opener 08-10, only 36 in middle order 01-05.
 
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Some Idiot said:
Katich and Martyn's Test records are very comparable. Not sure why Martyn gets lauded so highly sometimes, perhaps because he was an elegant player? Or because he was talked up by past players
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Martyn won a couple of series essentially off his own bat in Sri Lanka (against their greatest ever xi) and in India (Australia's only win there in modern times). I also think the nature in which he played ensured that his statistical record didn't do justice to his value to the team when he did fire.

Katich perhaps was more reliable at his peak, but in that XI full of gun batsman, the extra class that Martyn brought was more valuable than the grit of Katich.
 
melanChronic said:
Martyn won a couple of series essentially off his own bat in Sri Lanka (against their greatest ever xi) and in India (Australia's only win there in modern times). I also think the nature in which he played ensured that his statistical record didn't do justice to his value to the team when he did fire.

Katich perhaps was more reliable at his peak, but in that XI full of gun batsman, the extra class that Martyn brought was more valuable than the grit of Katich.
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Also while Katich obviously had to do a long apprenticeship himself, there is a very lingering feeling that the ridiculously unfair exile from the test team for Martyn robbed him of some exceptional international cricket years
 
Along with the WIs in the 80s, this is the strongest XI I've seen in my time watching.

www.espncricinfo.com

SA vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, , 1st Test at Johannesburg, February 22 - 24, 2002

Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, SA vs AUS, Australia tour of South Africa 2001/02 at New Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg dated February 22 - 24, 2002.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
M.Waugh
S.Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

Kaspa, Bichel, Love and Lehmann all in reserve around this time I think. Ridiculous depth.
 
Walt Kowalski said:
Along with the WIs in the 80s, this is the strongest XI I've seen in my time watching.

www.espncricinfo.com

SA vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, , 1st Test at Johannesburg, February 22 - 24, 2002

Get cricket scorecard of 1st Test, SA vs AUS, Australia tour of South Africa 2001/02 at New Wanderers Stadium, Johannesburg dated February 22 - 24, 2002.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

Hayden
Langer
Ponting
M.Waugh
S.Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

Kaspa, Bichel, Love and Lehmann all in reserve around this time I think. Ridiculous depth.
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I'd argue that the 06/07 Ashes side may be even better. Hussey and Clarke for the Waughs (who were on the decline at this stage) and Stuart Clark is a pretty much a straight swap for Gillespie. Lee was a better bowler in 06/07 than he was in 01 as well. Martyn the only one who is really down on his form from this game.
 

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I'm looking for a couple of NZ XIs that really encapsulate their "this guy spends 5 days a week on a tractor before playing cricket on the weekends, just chuck them in around Cairnsy and Fleming and see how we go" approach to selection during the 90s

This one from 99 vs England is pretty good:
Matthew Horne
Matthew Bell (two non-descript openers who did very little - tick)
Stephen Fleming
Nathan Astle
Roger Twose (token ODI player who never quite got it in white clothes)
Craig McMillan
Adam Parore (best sledge ever delivered)
Chris Cairns
Dion Nash (token all-rounder who wasn't great at either batting or bowling
Chris Harris (absurd selection at 10 but again in keeping with the 90s NZ philosophy of picking someone who is ok at everything, great at nothing)
Vettori (the fact that he's batting 11 and probably bowled like s**t at this stage is peak NZ)
 
PhatBoy said:
I'm looking for a couple of NZ XIs that really encapsulate their "this guy spends 5 days a week on a tractor before playing cricket on the weekends, just chuck them in around Cairnsy and Fleming and see how we go" approach to selection during the 90s

This one from 99 vs England is pretty good:
Matthew Horne
Matthew Bell (two non-descript openers who did very little - tick)
Stephen Fleming
Nathan Astle
Roger Twose (token ODI player who never quite got it in white clothes)
Craig McMillan
Adam Parore (best sledge ever delivered)
Chris Cairns
Dion Nash (token all-rounder who wasn't great at either batting or bowling
Chris Harris (absurd selection at 10 but again in keeping with the 90s NZ philosophy of picking someone who is ok at everything, great at nothing)
Vettori (the fact that he's batting 11 and probably bowled like sh*t at this stage is peak NZ)
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Pretty harsh on Dion Nash, was a pretty good bowler on his day. A bowling average of 28 after 32 tests is quite decent.
 
PhatBoy said:
I'm looking for a couple of NZ XIs that really encapsulate their "this guy spends 5 days a week on a tractor before playing cricket on the weekends, just chuck them in around Cairnsy and Fleming and see how we go" approach to selection during the 90s

This one from 99 vs England is pretty good:
Matthew Horne
Matthew Bell (two non-descript openers who did very little - tick)
Stephen Fleming
Nathan Astle
Roger Twose (token ODI player who never quite got it in white clothes)
Craig McMillan
Adam Parore (best sledge ever delivered)
Chris Cairns
Dion Nash (token all-rounder who wasn't great at either batting or bowling
Chris Harris (absurd selection at 10 but again in keeping with the 90s NZ philosophy of picking someone who is ok at everything, great at nothing)
Vettori (the fact that he's batting 11 and probably bowled like sh*t at this stage is peak NZ)
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Looking through this side I can't believe how bad Stephen Fleming's conversion rate was. He made 55 fifty-plus scores but only 9 hundreds in 111 tests. 3 of those 9 were double hundreds.
 
PhatBoy said:
I'm looking for a couple of NZ XIs that really encapsulate their "this guy spends 5 days a week on a tractor before playing cricket on the weekends, just chuck them in around Cairnsy and Fleming and see how we go" approach to selection during the 90s

This one from 99 vs England is pretty good:
Matthew Horne
Matthew Bell (two non-descript openers who did very little - tick)
Stephen Fleming
Nathan Astle
Roger Twose (token ODI player who never quite got it in white clothes)
Craig McMillan
Adam Parore (best sledge ever delivered)
Chris Cairns
Dion Nash (token all-rounder who wasn't great at either batting or bowling
Chris Harris (absurd selection at 10 but again in keeping with the 90s NZ philosophy of picking someone who is ok at everything, great at nothing)
Vettori (the fact that he's batting 11 and probably bowled like sh*t at this stage is peak NZ)
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New Zealand the most boring cricket nation
 
Pippen94 said:
New Zealand the most boring cricket nation
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In many ways yes. But I doubt many fans found Cairns, Bond, McMillan, Astle boring though. Even Fleming was incredibly easy on the eye. They were a mix of aggressive players who played with a chip on their shoulder, and players who wouldn't stand out in local club cricket that managed to find a bit of a niche in their national side.
 
PhatBoy said:
In many ways yes. But I doubt many fans found Cairns, Bond, McMillan, Astle boring though. Even Fleming was incredibly easy on the eye. They were a mix of aggressive players who played with a chip on their shoulder, and players who wouldn't stand out in local club cricket that managed to find a bit of a niche in their national side.
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I remember loving that team as a kid. Especially Cairns. Was trying to find an actual best XI for Fleming, probably around that 0-0 series they had here 01-02?

Here's the scorecard from the Warne out for 99 match, was the best I could find:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-vs-new-zealand-3rd-test-63955/full-scorecard

1. Richardson
2. Vincent
3. Sinclair
4. Fleming c
5. Astle
6. McMillan
7. Vettori
8. Parore +
9. Cairns
10. Bond
11. Martin
 
melanChronic said:
I remember loving that team as a kid. Especially Cairns. Was trying to find an actual best XI for Fleming, probably around that 0-0 series they had here 01-02?

Here's the scorecard from the Warne out for 99 match, was the best I could find:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...-vs-new-zealand-3rd-test-63955/full-scorecard

1. Richardson
2. Vincent
3. Sinclair
4. Fleming c
5. Astle
6. McMillan
7. Vettori
8. Parore +
9. Cairns
10. Bond
11. Martin
Click to expand...


I'm not gonna cheat and look at the card but is that where Fleming, Astle, McMillan and Parore all scored centuries?
 
PhatBoy said:
I'm not gonna cheat and look at the card but is that where Fleming, Astle, McMillan and Parore all scored centuries?
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Yep! Set Australia 440 to win in a little over a day, Aus were having a crack but had to pull back for the draw at 7 down, even though Gilchrist was still in and in a mood.

Was a great series, potentially the best 0-0 series ever.
 
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