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Raines too Midfield?

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SM10

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since jordon Mcmahon will know doubt playing on the HBF.
what do you recon of raines pushing up to the midfield where his old man played?
 
I've never heard anyone been describe as "too midfield". Maybe Micheal Voss was "too midfield" because he struggled to play anywhere else

But if you mean will he goto the midfield, he has alot of competition. Alot more then at the start of last year, when he and Newman were our only rebounding flankers.

Now we have McMohan, Newman, Raines, King, Bowden as well as youngsters like Conners and Casserly. All these players are pretty much playing for 3 or 4 places in the team.

Mark Bowden in their first because he is the most versitile and I imagine McMohan will play as the loose man back like Polak this year so that he will look like a "Terry star recruit". Newman's spot in the side is also one of the first marked in everyweek. This means that King, Raines and the youngsters are probably competing for 2 or maybe even the one spot in the
 
I highly doubt Raines is good enough for midfield and any role for him in defense has all but vanished.

If he kicked a footy like his father there'd be no problem. Geoff had penetration in his kicking, Andrew tries to make up for his lack of it by kicking horrible patented Wayne Campbell sky punts. Campbell got away with it because he was a very competitive footballer in his hard ball gets and relatively clever with his handball and short kicking (when he wasn't going backwards and wide - slowly). I don't see Raines having enough talent in other areas which can make up for the fact that every time he kicks the ball long there's a high possibility of a teammate being stuck under the ball waiting for it to come down from the moon - giving everyone within 30m every chance to create a mismatch and a turnover. That's before we get to his poor decision making.

Unless he begins to excel in an area he previously hasn't, I expect he'll struggle to cement a spot in the seniors this year and will find himself at the crossroads either at the end of this year or the next.
 
If he works on his acceleration over the summer he could be a very handy outside mid. I have no doubt in my mind his kicking will be concentrated on heavily over the pre.
Don't think we should lump connors in with the hbf's, he's shown he can play mid, forward and back. I see him becoming a topline goal-kicking mid if he knuckles down and increases his fitness markedly.
 

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If he works his arse off to rectify the serious deficiencies in his game such as decision making and disposal, he could make a handy mid (most likely a defensive mid) only because of his work ethic and his attitude..ie sticking to a task, never say die etc because he displays these traits. Raines biggest problem is that when there is not an obvious first option once he gets the pill, he often makes a mess of it:o

Unfortunately turning a 'dumb' footballer into a smart footballer is not easily achieved.
 
He runs straight at the footy and finds it well, needs to fine tune his disposal/decision making...this can be done..just ask axel...and we have ourselves a player. He did some hard yards in 2007 having to play on opponents well out of his depth...will stand him in good stead in 2008:thumbsu:
 
His immediate major competitors for a midfield role are Polo, Jackson, King and perhaps even Newman on occasion. Soon Connors, Edwards and others will be knocking on the same door.

As things currently stand and with McMahon and Morton coming in, all of them either already have or will have an edge on him in several areas and less deficiencies.

He's going to have to come out of pre-season as an enormously improved player to find a role. I hope he's capable of doing so, but I see very little to suggest he can do it.
 
RichosGuns said:
I've never heard anyone been describe as "too midfield". Maybe Micheal Voss was "too midfield" because he struggled to play anywhere else

But if you mean will he goto the midfield, he has alot of competition. Alot more then at the start of last year, when he and Newman were our only rebounding flankers.

Now we have McMohan, Newman, Raines, King, Bowden as well as youngsters like Conners and Casserly. All these players are pretty much playing for 3 or 4 places in the team.

Mark Bowden in their first because he is the most versitile and I imagine McMohan will play as the loose man back like Polak this year so that he will look like a "Terry star recruit". Newman's spot in the side is also one of the first marked in everyweek. This means that King, Raines and the youngsters are probably competing for 2 or maybe even the one spot in the
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If your going to criticise someones spelling best to get it right yourself or look like a total tool.

When did we get Mark Bowden and McMohan?
 
I would much prefer Jake King to get a run in the midfield or coming off half back. He has shown he has the speed and kicking skills to do that.

Even though we have all these options, thats not a bad thing. Injuries, poor form etc all means that we have backups who are hungry for a go.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichosGuns
I've never heard anyone been describe as "too midfield". Maybe Micheal Voss was "too midfield" because he struggled to play anywhere else

But if you mean will he goto the midfield, he has alot of competition. Alot more then at the start of last year, when he and Newman were our only rebounding flankers.

Now we have McMohan, Newman, Raines, King, Bowden as well as youngsters like Conners and Casserly. All these players are pretty much playing for 3 or 4 places in the team.

Mark Bowden in their first because he is the most versitile and I imagine McMohan will play as the loose man back like Polak this year so that he will look like a "Terry star recruit". Newman's spot in the side is also one of the first marked in everyweek. This means that King, Raines and the youngsters are probably competing for 2 or maybe even the one spot in the
tigertiger said:
If your going to criticise someones spelling best to get it right yourself or look like a total tool.

When did we get Mark Bowden and McMohan?
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You missed a few (underlined)...
 
richoatthedisco said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichosGuns
I've never heard anyone been describe as "too midfield". Maybe Micheal Voss was "too midfield" because he struggled to play anywhere else

But if you mean will he goto the midfield, he has alot of competition. Alot more then at the start of last year, when he and Newman were our only rebounding flankers.

Now we have McMohan, Newman, Raines, King, Bowden as well as youngsters like Conners and Casserly. All these players are pretty much playing for 3 or 4 places in the team.

Mark Bowden in their first because he is the most versitile and I imagine McMohan will play as the loose man back like Polak this year so that he will look like a "Terry star recruit". Newman's spot in the side is also one of the first marked in everyweek. This means that King, Raines and the youngsters are probably competing for 2 or maybe even the one spot in the

You missed a few (underlined)...
Click to expand...

didnt want to come across as anal :)
 
emperor said:
If he works his arse off to rectify the serious deficiencies in his game such as decision making and disposal, he could make a handy mid (most likely a defensive mid) only because of his work ethic and his attitude..ie sticking to a task, never say die etc because he displays these traits. Raines biggest problem is that when there is not an obvious first option once he gets the pill, he often makes a mess of it:o

Unfortunately turning a 'dumb' footballer into a smart footballer is not easily achieved.
Click to expand...
Do you mean he should be working on the stuff he was meant to be working on in juniors?
 
richoatthedisco said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichosGuns
I've never heard anyone been describe as "too midfield". Maybe Micheal Voss was "too midfield" because he struggled to play anywhere else

But if you mean will he goto the midfield, he has alot of competition. Alot more then at the start of last year, when he and Newman were our only rebounding flankers.

Now we have McMohan, Newman, Raines, King, Bowden as well as youngsters like Conners and Casserly. All these players are pretty much playing for 3 or 4 places in the team.

Mark Bowden in their first because he is the most versitile and I imagine McMohan will play as the loose man back like Polak this year so that he will look like a "Terry star recruit". Newman's spot in the side is also one of the first marked in everyweek. This means that King, Raines and the youngsters are probably competing for 2 or maybe even the one spot in the

You missed a few (underlined)...
Click to expand...

tigertiger said:
didnt want to come across as anal :)
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:D....well done fellas

Just with the Bowden thing, "Mark" was not used as a noun in that context, it reads "Mark Joel Bowden in..."
 

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Rainsey would be good in the midfield...........he isnt accountable enough in the back line,also runs himself into trouble when the pressure is on,once in the mid he would be like tucky,once he gets the ball slam it on the boot.....
 
Tiger Army said:
Rainsey would be good in the midfield...........he isnt accountable enough in the back line,also runs himself into trouble when the pressure is on,once in the mid he would be like tucky,once he gets the ball slam it on the boot.....
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I am not sure 'slamming it on the boot' is our best result from him. But after this years season from him, and considering the McMahon in, and the Howat out, I see Raines as taking Howat's position. So he is fighting for a position now on the wing as a link up player. I think he is a big step up from Howat and in the kind of space that he should find for himself on the wing, his kicking will be much better (decision making). Whether he has the pace to do this of course is the next question.

Midfield...bigger ??? for me. Tagger maybe at best...but we have a few now so yeah...Rainsy..shows us something in the Nothing Cup!
 
Rayzorwire said:
I highly doubt Raines is good enough for midfield and any role for him in defense has all but vanished.

If he kicked a footy like his father there'd be no problem. Geoff had penetration in his kicking, Andrew tries to make up for his lack of it by kicking horrible patented Wayne Campbell sky punts. Campbell got away with it because he was a very competitive footballer in his hard ball gets and relatively clever with his handball and short kicking (when he wasn't going backwards and wide - slowly). I don't see Raines having enough talent in other areas which can make up for the fact that every time he kicks the ball long there's a high possibility of a teammate being stuck under the ball waiting for it to come down from the moon - giving everyone within 30m every chance to create a mismatch and a turnover. That's before we get to his poor decision making.

Unless he begins to excel in an area he previously hasn't, I expect he'll struggle to cement a spot in the seniors this year and will find himself at the crossroads either at the end of this year or the next.
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Rayzor, I'm starting to change my mind about Raines in the midfield. I don't mean the centre square but on the right wing as an outside midfielder.
I am older than some here and remember watching his dad Geoff play, streaming through the middle and kicking long, 55 - 60 M to Roach (he he) at the top of the goal square. Footy was different back then & I am not sure if Geoff would have been as comfortable in heavy traffic either.
Re Andrew's kicking, I reckon he also has a penetrating 55 - 60 M kick, it is just with his shorter chip kicking in tight that he has no finesse.
I watched Raines "tag" Goodes up here this season & I know that Goodes got plenty of it, (but he does have 2 Charlies) but Raines looked far more comfortable with more space around him in the middle and not feeling backed up against our own defensive goal line.
Anyway, I agree that others have taken his HBF spot now but if Howatt & Hyde got a game in the middle last year then I think Raines has more to offer than them.
 
Tiger Army said:
Rainsey would be good in the midfield...........he isnt accountable enough in the back line,also runs himself into trouble when the pressure is on,once in the mid he would be like tucky,once he gets the ball slam it on the boot.....
Click to expand...
He was one of our more accountable defenders last year. Got some huge jobs and it was generally in the air where he was beaten because he was often playing on much taller opponents.. Otherwise in the one-on-ones he did fairly well.

Agree with polakthetiger and roachy8 about him playing on the wing. He is very similar kick to his old man, at his best when he is streaming into space and kicking the ball long.
 

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you have to be careful judgeing players on this season, we were a lot of key players down and had a lot of players carrying injury it was also only his 2nd full season. Raines and TW talked about him moveing onto the ball next season towards the end of the year from memory.

You have to remember raines was picked up at number 62 he came from a non football area and was quite small they have spent the last 2 years building up his skill size and fitness. I know he made some poor decisions this year but our players werent providing some of the best options for him.

With a full list and the continued improvement of our young group he could fit very nicely as an outside mid but he is also good over the ball and not scared of a contest. I really like the idea of him playing in the middle his 2 years down back have taught him a lot and another pre-season will bring even greater improvement.

PS.. I really miss the football season
 
Roachy8 said:
Rayzor, I'm starting to change my mind about Raines in the midfield. I don't mean the centre square but on the right wing as an outside midfielder.
I am older than some here and remember watching his dad Geoff play, streaming through the middle and kicking long, 55 - 60 M to Roach (he he) at the top of the goal square. Footy was different back then & I am not sure if Geoff would have been as comfortable in heavy traffic either.
Re Andrew's kicking, I reckon he also has a penetrating 55 - 60 M kick, it is just with his shorter chip kicking in tight that he has no finesse.
I watched Raines "tag" Goodes up here this season & I know that Goodes got plenty of it, (but he does have 2 Charlies) but Raines looked far more comfortable with more space around him in the middle and not feeling backed up against our own defensive goal line.
Anyway, I agree that others have taken his HBF spot now but if Howatt & Hyde got a game in the middle last year then I think Raines has more to offer than them.
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I'd agree he has more to offer than Howat and probably Hyde Roachy, but there is a massive difference between the two Raines' kicking. Geoff could kick the ball long and flat, Andrew has a flawed technique which means he can't kick a ball 50m without kicking it 30m in the air. I don't think it has anything at all to do with traffic because he also does it when he's in a lot of space, I also don't think it has anything to do with leg power...it's just a flawed technique.

Only time will tell whether or not he can overcome it by either improving that technique (unlikely at this stage IMO), or making other aspects of his game good enough for it not to matter when he's compared to other players who do kick well (slightly more likely, but still unlikely IMO).

I like the kid, I hope he does overcome it. I hope all our players end up as good as they can be.
 
Rayzorwire said:
I'd agree he has more to offer than Howat and probably Hyde Roachy, but there is a massive difference between the two Raines' kicking. Geoff could kick the ball long and flat, Andrew has a flawed technique which means he can't kick a ball 50m without kicking it 30m in the air. I don't think it has anything at all to do with traffic because he also does it when he's in a lot of space, I also don't think it has anything to do with leg power...it's just a flawed technique.

Only time will tell whether or not he can overcome it by either improving that technique (unlikely at this stage IMO), or making other aspects of his game good enough for it not to matter when he's compared to other players who do kick well (slightly more likely, but still unlikely IMO).

I like the kid, I hope he does overcome it. I hope all our players end up as good as they can be.
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I'll yield to your technical opinion re Raines' kicking Rayzor, I don't have that sort of insight! As you say though, perhaps & hopefully it can be worked on and improved.
Perhaps I am living a bit in the past (been watching the Tigers since the early 70's) but I reckon there is value in the occasional long quick kick into the danger zone, 20M out from goal. Nowadays as we know, most defences play a loose man 20M in front of your leading forward to take up that space.
A long kick beyond that player creates a true 1 on 1 contest & at the moment anyway, we have one of the best contested marks in the AFL over the past 10 years at FF. (Richo) He either grabs it or brings it to ground and the crumbers (Edwards, Tambling, Browny etc) swoop & create pressure.
I reckon far too often in modern footy midfielders try to hit a leading forward about 40M out, going full bore in the other direction whilst trying to negotiate a flooding defence. The mark is missed or spoiled and the defenders are there to clear.
Anyway, as I say I may be feeling a bit melancholy in the off season & need to speed up the mid-life crisis! :eek: Lol....
 
Roachy8 said:
A long kick beyond that player creates a true 1 on 1 contest & at the moment anyway, we have one of the best contested marks in the AFL over the past 10 years at FF. (Richo) He either grabs it or brings it to ground and the crumbers (Edwards, Tambling, Browny etc) swoop & create pressure.
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That's partly why I've always been a wrap for players like Tuck, Deledio, Tambling, Jackson and now hope we draft Morton to go with with his brother and McMahon Roachy. In a game where players can jump up to and sometimes over three metres in the air, cover so much ground, and defensively fill space all the time, good penetration with a long, fast, flat 55m+ kick is so important. Moving the ball quickly is vital and nothing is quicker than a long kick. Even better when it's an accurate one which hits a target precisely, but often just moving the ball fast creates opportunities.
 

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