Rate our Ruck Division.

[Bartram_Class]

White, Johnson, Jamar, Meesen, Spencer.

Rate them 1st to 5th in terms of who you would be playing if they were all fit. Meesen and Spencer would be 4th and 5th respectively probably, but its becoming a bit of a raffle among the top three at the moment.

I'd go...

1. PJ
2. White
3. Jamar (a lot closer to White than a week ago though)
4. Meesen
5. Spencer

 

[master bate]

I rated them compared to Dean Cox at his best with a score of 100% for each category.
PJ 70% around the ground 25% in the ruck = 95%
White 60% around the ground 10% in the ruck = 70%
Jamar 10% around the ground 50% in the ruck = 60%
Meesen - still unknown
Spencer - haven't seen much but he looks a good type

 

[Supermercado]

1. White
2. PJ
3. Jamar
4. Meesen
5. Spencer
6. Mark Bradly

 

[Bartram_Class]

1. White
2. PJ
3. Jamar
4. Meesen
5. Spencer
6. Mark Bradly

That game in Perth from big Bradly in '98 was the best ruck performance I've ever seen.

What a gun.

 

[2 Dogs]

1 White- still our number 1
2 PJ- Closing in on the top job with solid performances. Hopefully can get it back when he returns
3 Jamar- Good tap ruckman, finally used his size to advantage against Freo. I'm not convinced with only one performance though
4- Meesen- Don't know enough, apparently being groomed as a 200cm wingman. Why, I dunno?
5- Spencer- Getting the no 1 ruck spot at Sandy. Insurance only, incase we lose 4 ruckmen to injury.
6- Dean Irving- Mountain of a man.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

1 White- still our number 1
2 PJ- Closing in on the top job with solid performances. Hopefully can get it back when he returns
3 Jamar- Good tap ruckman, finally used his size to advantage against Freo. I'm not convinced with only one performance though
4- Meesen- Don't know enough, apparently being groomed as a 200cm wingman. Why, I dunno?
5- Spencer- Getting the no 1 ruck spot at Sandy. Insurance only, incase we lose 4 ruckmen to injury.
6- Dean Irving- Mountain of a man.

Damn I was going to agree with merc and add in Irving. Mostly because he was odd looking and could torp it over the Yarra.

 

[CaptainDavey]

Bring back Van Shaik!!!

In all seriousness though:
1) Jeffery
2) PJ
3) Thrussian
4) Unleash the Meese
5) Spencer
6) Natanui

 

[Tommyneu]

Shrek
Daylight
White
PJ
Jamar

 

[melbournemartin]

Jamar is doing himself no harm with his recent form.

 

[demonfan9]

426 in the 2006 Semi Final.

All that needs to be said.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

I rated them compared to Dean Cox at his best with a score of 100% for each category.
PJ 70% around the ground 25% in the ruck = 95%
White 60% around the ground 10% in the ruck = 70%

What do you mean by around the ground? do you mean rucking or do you mean the same impact everyone else has excluding rucking?

If you mean general impact excluding rucking, how do you rate PJ at 70% & white at 60%?? and even rating white 10% to PJ 25% is a bit much. I could grasp that you might think that PJ has slightly surpassed white in rucking ability, but not 10 to 25.

PJ is much improved and is quickly gaining ground on white, but he has a way to go yet.

I think white is almost a good enough player to warrant inclusion in the side even if we had better ruckman, because he has a lot of impact. He is 10th for kicks, 4th for h/balls, 5th for disposals and number 1 for marks for the club up to round 7. His rucking ability might be on the slide, but his impact on the game outside of rucking isnt.

White averages 20.0 disposals a game, compared to 21.8 for Cox, but Cox has had about 7-8 more hitouts a game, but is younger & fitter and i'm sure spends more time in the ruck then white.

I think white is probably 3rd only to Cox & the injured Ottens in impact around the ground, but is starting to slightly lack a bit in his rucking skills, losing his big leap with age.

I would still rank white in the top 5 ruckman in the league, so while PJ has taken some big steps, he has a long why to go before he is even mentioned in the same breath as jeff white.

 

[DemonJim]

I think he means around the ground to be any ruch contest around the ground and in the ruck to be the center circle, in which we can all agree Jeff White has been struggling since the inclusion of.

 

[master bate]

What do you mean by around the ground? do you mean rucking or do you mean the same impact everyone else has excluding rucking?

If you mean general impact excluding rucking, how do you rate PJ at 70% & white at 60%?? and even rating white 10% to PJ 25% is a bit much. I could grasp that you might think that PJ has slightly surpassed white in rucking ability, but not 10 to 25.

PJ is much improved and is quickly gaining ground on white, but he has a way to go yet.

I think white is almost a good enough player to warrant inclusion in the side even if we had better ruckman, because he has a lot of impact. He is 10th for kicks, 4th for h/balls, 5th for disposals and number 1 for marks for the club up to round 7. His rucking ability might be on the slide, but his impact on the game outside of rucking isnt.

White averages 20.0 disposals a game, compared to 21.8 for Cox, but Cox has had about 7-8 more hitouts a game, but is younger & fitter and i'm sure spends more time in the ruck then white.

I think white is probably 3rd only to Cox & the injured Ottens in impact around the ground, but is starting to slightly lack a bit in his rucking skills, losing his big leap with age.

I would still rank white in the top 5 ruckman in the league, so while PJ has taken some big steps, he has a long why to go before he is even mentioned in the same breath as jeff white.

Ok I'll put it in simpler terms - White is shit and still gets plenty of hitouts (I think he is about to break the record of most hitouts ever) but his hitouts to advantage is shocking, and around the ground (as in not ruck contests but just general play) he is useless as well because all he does is sit in the middle and get in the way of run and carry and rack up useless touches, either that or he spreads wide and slows ball movement down. The quicker we get rid of him the better.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Ok I'll put it in simpler terms - White is shit and still gets plenty of hitouts (I think he is about to break the record of most hitouts ever) but his hitouts to advantage is shocking, and around the ground (as in not ruck contests but just general play) he is useless as well because all he does is sit in the middle and get in the way of run and carry and rack up useless touches, either that or he spreads wide and slows ball movement down. The quicker we get rid of him the better.

And do what? replace him with 2 lumbering giants? Jamar was good on the weekend but thats his first decent game all year and PJ just doesnt have the mobility.

The game is developing in a way that having a mobile ruckman adds huge benefit to your team, west coast would be getting slaughtered by a lot more without having cox. Cox, the most mobile ruckman in the game, has even been called the best ruckman ever, i know thats a huge call & i'm not making it, but he's already considered up there with the best ever.

Until Cox came into prominence, white was the best example of a mobile ruckman over the last 10 years.

I dont think it'll be long before PJ becomes our No.1 ruckman it might even happen this year if he gets back soon enough, but there's a lot of daylight between white & jamar who is our No.3.

So until we get Naita or Meesan steps up or someone performs a miracle with the russian, white is still a requied member of our best 22.

 

[RandB]

Jamar was good on the weekend but thats his first decent game all year

Jamar has been reasonable for us in all four games he has played this season IMO and will only get better. I was canned by some tool for pointing out his tap numbers (as a guide) last week but they aren't too bad.

To rate our ruck division you need to evaluate how different combinations work together as well as each individual on their own merit. PJ is definitely a bit more mobile than Jamar but Jamar is a superior tap ruckman and IMO White works better in tandem with Jamar as Jamar is more solid both at the centre bounce as well as stopages. This means White can rest more and be used in other roles. Sure PJ also is naturaly used in the ruck but he is not as dominant so I think White would have to cover more. I have been impressed with both PJ and Jamar with how much they have both put in despite their individual limitations.

Jamar is now 67 hitouts from 4 games this year as a backup ruckman and he held his own against that freak Sandilands IMO. Another stat that I will keep an eye on this year is the frees for/against deficit for the Russian. Because he is strong and taps well he also extracts more frees, this is a trait of a good tap ruckman.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Jamar has been reasonable for us in all four games he has played this season IMO and will only get better.

Jamar is now 67 hitouts from 4 games this year as a backup ruckman and he held his own against that freak Sandilands IMO. Another stat that I will keep an eye on this year is the frees for/against deficit for the Russian. Because he is strong and taps well he also extracts more frees, this is a trait of a good tap ruckman.

I may have been a little harsh. What i meant was that on the weekend was his only good game this year, the others have been serviceable. But i see no reason why he'll get better, in fact from the game on the weekend i'd say he can only get worse.

And while i thought he was pretty good on the weekend, he had 20 hitouts, i would say quite a few of them were won in the 3rd quarter when sandilands spent more then 15 mins off the ground and he was in the ruck against a bloke who is only 6'3.

67 hitouts is quite good if you rate him against other backup ruckman, but look at his disposals, 6 kicks in 4 games, a total of 37 disposals and only 7 marks!!

PJ so far this year has averaged 4 more marks a game and 7 more disposals. As a ruckman they should be at least getting a couple of uncontested marks a game getting in front of the play on the wings, PJ does this, the russian not so much.

The game has become is moving so quick that a ruckman who can do more then get hitouts is invaluable, only a couple of teams in the league have 2. Both last years grand finalists have 2

 

[master bate]

The game has become is moving so quick that a ruckman who can do more then get hitouts is invaluable, only a couple of teams in the league have 2. Both last years grand finalists have 2

Do you mean King or Blake. You're pushing it if you think Mark Blake does much around the ground, the guy almost flat out refuses to kick, if Jamar was playing for Geelong I reckon he would do more around the ground as well.

I am still confident in my belief that what happens when the ball is bounced or thrown up is a lot more important than what the big blokes do around the ground. Which is why Jamar still has a chance to succeed and why I'm worried about Meesen.

 

[Life Coach]

I'm not a Melbourne supporter but I saw last weekend's game against Freo and Jamar was outstanding against Sandilands. Despite giving away 13 cm and 23 kg, Jamar beat Sandilands at a number of centre bounces by crashing in as hard and aggressively as he possibly could. He may not be the most talented footballer going around but he was one of the players who helped turn the game Melbourne's way and I had to admire the way he went about it.

 

[RandB]

I may have been a little harsh. What i meant was that on the weekend was his only good game this year, the others have been serviceable. But i see no reason why he'll get better, in fact from the game on the weekend i'd say he can only get worse.

And while i thought he was pretty good on the weekend, he had 20 hitouts, i would say quite a few of them were won in the 3rd quarter when sandilands spent more then 15 mins off the ground and he was in the ruck against a bloke who is only 6'3.

67 hitouts is quite good if you rate him against other backup ruckman, but look at his disposals, 6 kicks in 4 games, a total of 37 disposals and only 7 marks!!

PJ so far this year has averaged 4 more marks a game and 7 more disposals. As a ruckman they should be at least getting a couple of uncontested marks a game getting in front of the play on the wings, PJ does this, the russian not so much.

The game has become is moving so quick that a ruckman who can do more then get hitouts is invaluable, only a couple of teams in the league have 2. Both last years grand finalists have 2

I don't think that anyone on this board is under the illusion that Jamar is the athletic domineering ruckman who has many strings to his bow. You are correct, he does need to take a few more marks and be part of the flow of the game a bit more and he is nothing like a Dean Cox. The fact still remains that we don't have the perfect ruckman in either Jamar or Johnson. Johnson gets around a bit more and Jamar taps better at stopages. All I am saying with respect to Jamar is that I prefer a guy who can win taps but is a bit slow around the ground and doesn't rack up possies as opposed to a slightly more mobile ruckman who doesn't hold his own as much at the taps. We all know that we need a ruckman who can do both but the reality is we will have to wait and recruit better.

 

[astro_toby]

how is john meesen going? is he having much impact in VFL level? is he fit? i was keen for richmond to pick him up last off season - but he seemed to have a lot of adelaide supporters that loved him or hated him.