Rate The List

[Boris the Contradiction]

Beams is NOt better than Sidebottom and Sidey is a B+ at a bare minimum.

Yes he is and comfortably.

Sidey is not B+ minimum either. The OP described B+ as a "great player". Is a player who is a decent to solid contributer for half a season (yet inconsistent) and average or less for the second half of the season a great player? My answer is no reagardless of his finals performances. Was Shane Ellen an A Grader? Sidey will be an A grader in my opinion but isn't even on the same planet as it at the moment.

 

[Thommo 42]

you talk like these finals were isolated. He has repeatedly done it in big games and he's 19. He did it in the finals 12 months ago as well.

He was extremely good all year, had a few quiet ones where he looked tired. I think a few are getting a bit blinded by the stats sheet.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

you talk like these finals were isolated. He has repeatedly done it in big games and he's 19. He did it in the finals 12 months ago as well.

He was extremely good all year, had a few quiet ones where he looked tired. I think a few are getting a bit blinded by the stats sheet.

Rubbish, I know who's blinded.

 

[Zahki]

you talk like these finals were isolated. He has repeatedly done it in big games and he's 19. He did it in the finals 12 months ago as well.

He was extremely good all year, had a few quiet ones where he looked tired. I think a few are getting a bit blinded by the stats sheet.

In the later half of the year people on here were saying that he was the most vulnerable to being dropped, he wasn't doing much at all. I think you're being blinded by the gloss of two excellent Grand Finals. Beams was a solid contributor all year, Sidebottom went MIA for quite a few games.

 

[the mighty T]

In the later half of the year people on here were saying that he was the most vulnerable to being dropped, he wasn't doing much at all. I think you're being blinded by the gloss of two excellent Grand Finals. Beams was a solid contributor all year, Sidebottom went MIA for quite a few games.

In effect hes the reverse leon davis..

i thought beams was good early and faded but sidey started well, had a slump and got better

Sidey imo is a better player than beams. and i think you'll find his performances after the adelaide game were excellent including the finals

This is no knock on beams whose certainly not a bad player by any stretch, but Sidebottom is better and will keep getting better as the years go on

 

[Markfs]

Sounds like school days... B+, C-..

I've watched a few home and away games too but I've seen a lot of Collingwood players over the years and the ones I like are the ones that keep their heads in finals. Other than that, I like Beams too and I wouldnt say he's less or more valuable at this stage.

Macaf situation is easier to judge. He's played well in a couple of grand finals and basically done all the coach has asked of him. Plus he's managed to keep his head in pressure situations in all of it. Cameron Wood hasn't achieved any of that, so far. I'm still hopeful that he'll grow up a little - a little bit like what Chris Tarrant has been talking about this week.

While I'm at it, I still cant believe that Alan Toovey gets rated so lowly. He is still improving. Ben Johnson is a critical player too and I must admit that I thought he was on the way out a year or so ago so I'm no expert when it comes to rating players. The bottom line is that this is a team of blokes - a lot of them are doing well because they are surrounded by other blokes doing their jobs. Geelong were the same...

 

[lozza63]

In rating the list I attempted to do so in order of importance (if that is possible) - so please dont be too critical - happy to be challenged though.

1. Darren Jolly - is an absolute star, it is no coincidence that the 2nd half of our season took off once Roger found his feet (and became the lone ruck) - so without his services ????
2. Dane Swan - tireless
3. Scott Pendlebury - this man is soooo smoothe!
4. Dale Thomas - what progress he has made - no "soft tag" now eh!
5. Alan Didak - the bonafide match winner!
6. Luke Ball - GF1 showed how key he is to this team - hard to win when he doesnt extract the pill!
7. Travis Cloke - major forward key!
8. Nick Maxwell - capt and general of defence.
9. Leigh Brown - the scary enforcer, pinch hitting ruck and part time forward.
10. Ben Reid - so quick great kick - took his time developing now is huge for us.
11. Nathan Brown - will get the key forward every week - looks to be up to it.
12. Harry O - rebounder of the highest calibre
13. Heath Shaw - another who needs stopping, an offensive defender.
14. Sharrod Wellas - this guy is very good and hurts you on the scoreboard.

Everyone above this line is B+ or above

15. Chris Dawes - a major influence with Cloke
16. Dayne Beams - great young talent
17. Steele Sidebottom - same as Beamer
18. Alan Toovey - looks as if I am underrating him too.
19. Brent Macaffer - love the forward pressure he applies

This group is the B grade.
I believe that these 19 guys are pivotal members of our 21. Many of these will continue to improve as they are 23 or under.

20. Chris Tarrant - need to see how he fits in
21. Andrew Krak - big wraps, let's see

Taz and Krak are mature players and evidently likely to be in the 21.

22. Ben Johnson (B grade can be better than that at times) - sub maybe
23. Tyson Goldsack - major depth player
24. Cameron Wood - much will rest on his shoulders if required.
25. Leon Davis ( onus on to get back a B+) - Can he retain his spot?
26. Simon Prestigiacomo (A grade who is weary) - was the master till round 22 then a couple of pups went past him.
27. Jarrad Blair - can he go on?
28. John McCarthy - seems to need more time to develop
29. Lachlan Keeffe - seen him once or twice - impressed me

The rest I have not seen enough of so dare not comment - or i've forgotten someone as usual.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

In rating the list I attempted to do so in order of importance (if that is possible) - so please dont be too critical - happy to be challenged though.

1. Darren Jolly - is an absolute star, it is no coincidence that the 2nd half of our season took off once Roger found his feet (and became the lone ruck) - so without his services ????
2. Dane Swan - tireless
3. Scott Pendlebury - this man is soooo smoothe!
4. Dale Thomas - what progress he has made - no "soft tag" now eh!
5. Alan Didak - the bonafide match winner!
6. Luke Ball - GF1 showed how key he is to this team - hard to win when he doesnt extract the pill!
7. Travis Cloke - major forward key!
8. Nick Maxwell - capt and general of defence.
9. Leigh Brown - the scary enforcer, pinch hitting ruck and part time forward.
10. Ben Reid - so quick great kick - took his time developing now is huge for us.
11. Nathan Brown - will get the key forward every week - looks to be up to it.
12. Harry O - rebounder of the highest calibre
13. Heath Shaw - another who needs stopping, an offensive defender.
14. Sharrod Wellas - this guy is very good and hurts you on the scoreboard.

Everyone above this line is B+ or above

15. Chris Dawes - a major influence with Cloke
16. Dayne Beams - great young talent
17. Steele Sidebottom - same as Beamer
18. Alan Toovey - looks as if I am underrating him too.
19. Brent Macaffer - love the forward pressure he applies

This group is the B grade.
I believe that these 19 guys are pivotal members of our 21. Many of these will continue to improve as they are 23 or under.

20. Chris Tarrant - need to see how he fits in
21. Andrew Krak - big wraps, let's see

Taz and Krak are mature players and evidently likely to be in the 21.

22. Ben Johnson (B grade can be better than that at times) - sub maybe
23. Tyson Goldsack - major depth player
24. Cameron Wood - much will rest on his shoulders if required.
25. Leon Davis ( onus on to get back a B+) - Can he retain his spot?
26. Simon Prestigiacomo (A grade who is weary) - was the master till round 22 then a couple of pups went past him.
27. Jarrad Blair - can he go on?
28. John McCarthy - seems to need more time to develop
29. Lachlan Keeffe - seen him once or twice - impressed me

The rest I have not seen enough of so dare not comment - or i've forgotten someone as usual.

First off there is no chance in hell Darren Jolly is our most important player. Against Geelong in the Preliminary final, Jolly was absent and we had our most convincing win (for me) of all time.
Jolly was actually really ordinary in the finals until GF2. Now credit to him that he really stood up and was one of the best on ground in that game, but come on, he was against McEvoy and Kosi. He SHOULD HAVE dominated. And he SHOULD HAVE dominated the week before after Gardiner went down, but he did not, he was probably even shaded by Kosi.

I would say Scott Pendlebury is our most important player. It's a rare thing that he is up and firing and we are struggling. He is creative and also wonderful with his in close hands and also pressure.

Luke Ball was also quiet against Geelong, so it can't be that hard to win when he is not firing. There is no chance Luke Ball is in the top 6 most important players in this team, but in terms of respect he is absolutely number 1. A class act. He is important in close, but others are more significant.

Leigh Brown number 9. Wow. Okay so he played some good football in the latter part of the year, but you have players like Heath Shaw behind him.
The ploy of having 3 tall forwards worked at some points this season, but it certainly didn't in the Grand Final, nor did the ploy to have Leigh Brown rucking.

What a joke having Benny Johnson as our 22nd most important player. Do you watch football? He is a ball carrier, who contrary to people's beliefs uses it quite well and was pivotal in big games this season with some really important goals. He can play rebounding defender, he can play on the small forwards, he can run with a player and he can comfortable rotate around the ground if we are struggling somewhere. It would be nice to hear from a Collingwood fan who finally pays him the respect he deserves. Vital player.

I'd say from this season,

1. Pendlebury
2. Swan
3. Didak
4. Cloke
5. Maxwell (we looked so much better when he kicked into gear during the finals)
6. Jolly
7. Shaw
8. O'Brien
9. Thomas
10. Johnson
11. Ball
12. Reid
13. Dawes
14. Wellingham
15. L. Brown
16. Toovey
17. Beams
18. N Brown
19. MaCaffer
20. Sidebottom
21. Goldsack
22. Blair
But the reason we are so good is because the gap from 1-20 is very small compared to other sides.

 

[lozza63]

F&B - cheerio for the feedback.

A couple of things - I rated Ball so highly based on his tackling and pressure skills as evidenced by his tally of 155 tackles = 4th in the AFL.
Jolly is in my opinion the 1st in importance our club - 24 goals as a ruckman is just phenomenal - especially that he looked to be all at sea early in the year. For 2 blokes to be recruited to a club and feature so highly after such a short period is a credit to themselves and the club for recruiting them.
Leigh Brown adds toughness and an intimidatory edge to our team as well as filling gaps around the ground as required - maybe a little high though. Happy to swap Heath to 9th and Leroy to 13th.
Ben Johnson rated so far down the list for me because is ranked 20th for both tackles and contested possessions this year.

All these guys had a wonderful year - I hope Johnno sticks it up me and consolidates his place in 2011.

 

[sr36]

In effect hes the reverse leon davis..

i thought beams was good early and faded but sidey started well, had a slump and got better

Sidey imo is a better player than beams. and i think you'll find his performances after the adelaide game were excellent including the finals

This is no knock on beams whose certainly not a bad player by any stretch, but Sidebottom is better and will keep getting better as the years go on

I'd take Sidey well above Beams. The way I see it is that MM held Sidey back all year, by playing him as a forward, assumedly because MM didn't think his body was upto a full season of midfield. Cometh the hour, he played much further up the ground and showed what a star he is becoming. When his body is fully developed, he'll be one of the best going around.

 

[the mighty T]

I'd take Sidey well above Beams. The way I see it is that MM held Sidey back all year, by playing him as a forward, assumedly because MM didn't think his body was upto a full season of midfield. Cometh the hour, he played much further up the ground and showed what a star he is becoming. When his body is fully developed, he'll be one of the best going around.

Ive had this discussion with my old man a few times

Beams has the more mature body, and was always going to make an impact earlier and as i said, hes not a bad player at all

Sidebottom to me is the classier of the two, the smarter more talented footballer and it really shows in the stats. Despite the fact that beams has more possessions than sidey, his efficiency is usually less

I think that the two really compliment each other but Sidebottom is just that bit more classier, that bit more talented and overall will be the better player if he isnt already