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ImperialPurple

ImperialPurple

In it for the long haul
Veteran 10k Posts
Joined
May 26, 2003
Posts
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Location
Beaconsfield
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
SFFC, Aussie Women's Cricket, HNK
There's a thread on the main board about each club's "A" grade players, and what constitutes an A grade player. Some are saying the top 5 or 6 at a club, some are saying, only the top 50 in the league, some are saying anyone who would get a game at ever other club...

I just threw this together as to a possible rating system (using as a guide one that someone said they heard at a hawthorn dinner where the speaker said this is what most clubs use), and then rated our players on this scale. Apparently clubs need 12-14 A/B players to be considered contenders, and of the 12-14, there may only be 2-3 A grade players.

Is it a reasonable scale? and have I rated our players pretty fairly? Consider what other clubs might call their A/B players...

A grade player = Elite (Top 50)
B grade player = Above average (next 100 or so)
C grade player = Solid (it doesn't make you shake your head when they get selected)
D grade player = Outer fringe / not really AFL material / end of the road
Too young to tell / injury riddled

A+: Pav

A: Hase (if not right now, will be back up there soon enough IMO)

A-/B+: Bell, Sandi, Farmer

B: JCarr, Headland, Mundy, Tarrant, McPharlin, Black, Johnson, Hayden, Longmuir (when fit)

C+: Peake, Grover, Schammer, Solomon, Crowley, Thornton, Dodd, Macca, Campbell
C: Webster, MCarr, Cook, Murphy, Duffield, Browne (when fit)

D: Walker, Parker, Gilmore, Rumble (Good WAFL player IMO - but don't think he'll last on our list)

Too young / too injured
Drum, O'Brien, Collard, Mourish, Ibbotson, Warnock, Smith, Foster, Copping
Dunn, Haddrill (been out for so long now it's hard to rate him)
 
Very good list there IP, the only change for me would be Sandi moving into the A class with Hase. I have said it before and will say it again, Sandi is the most important player at Fremantle.
 
I actually had Grover in the "B" category, then moved him down. I love Groves and reckon he does an outstanding job week in and week out, but couldn't quite fit him in with the B's.

I also pondered over Headland and Mundy. Headland last year would have been a "C", this year he's a "B" IMO; Mundy last year was a "B+", now I reckon he's closer to "C+"... but I gave him benefit of the doubt.

I was trying to think along the lines of "how would each player go if he were at another club"...
 

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ImperialPurple said:
Mundy last year was a "B+", now I reckon he's closer to "C+"... but I gave him benefit of the doubt.
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Good job in the list, i like the Hase's 'A' rating, give it a coupe more good games by Hase and i'll be putting money on him for the Brownlow :)

Mundy ahead of Grover is a bit much! I'd also drop thorton down. How many games has played for us in the past 2 years? CC rates him, i don't think anyone else does.

Id' also have Jeffrey higher, i don't think theres any team in the league who wouldn't be improved with Jeffrey on their list. I'd have him A, if not A+.

Oh, obviously you've grossly overrated Headland's performance this year on the back of two "good" games.
 
GentlemanJeff said:
I wont comment on where you have placed Headland - I dont rate him - Others do.

However, I note that you place Sandilands in the same category as Bell and Farmer. I think this is grossly over rating Sandilands. We often here media commentators refer to Sandilands as "the dominant ruckman of the competition". This annoys me some what. I think he is a good ruckman, but definitely not among the leagues best at this stage of his career. The opposing ruckman often seem to gather a huge number of kicks in their attacking half of the ground when Sandilands in playing. Additionally, whilst he dominates the hit outs, I am very curious as to how many of the hit outs are "effective". Opposition midfields read Sandi like an open book.

I also think Grover is one of the most underrated defenders in the competition. He is better than the c+ you assign to him.
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Actually Sandi leads the competition in taps to advantage if I am not mistaken.

Lade, Cox, Sandi and McIntosh are the 4 best ruckmen in the comp. Would I have Sandi in the top 50 players in the comp, without a doubt.
 
Pretty good list.

On hitout dominance 211 would be in the A+ category but taking his around the ground game into consideration B+ is probably fair.

I'd have Taz in the B+ category, higher if he could learn to kick straight. I'd also move Grover up to the B category and the Wiz probably deserves an A rating.

Dessies a tough one. Depending which games you look at he could be anywhere from A to C.
 
Cameron_K said:
Actually Sandi leads the competition in taps to advantage if I am not mistaken.

Lade, Cox, Sandi and McIntosh are the 4 best ruckmen in the comp. Would I have Sandi in the top 50 players in the comp, without a doubt.
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The ruckman are grouped very close together in terms of hitouts, and hitouts to advantage, to say Sandilands is the dominant ruckman of the comp is just nonsense, his work around the ground seems to have really dropped off also. Last week Sandi had 44% of contests, mcintosh 41%, white 43%, lade 45%, so theres not a big difference.
 
Belnakor said:
The ruckman are grouped very close together in terms of hitouts, and hitouts to advantage, to say Sandilands is the dominant ruckman of the comp is just nonsense, his work around the ground seems to have really dropped off also. Last Sandi had 44% to advantage, mcintosh 41%, white 43%, lade 45%, so theres not a big difference.
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Sandi is winning more than half the contests He contests.

That is winning, not counting the neutral contests.

So 44% of more than anybody else is a the best part of a fair bit.
 
Belnakor said:
Good job in the list, i like the Hase's 'A' rating, give it a coupe more good games by Hase and i'll be putting money on him for the Brownlow :)

Mundy ahead of Grover is a bit much! I'd also drop thorton down. How many games has played for us in the past 2 years? CC rates him, i don't think anyone else does.

Id' also have Jeffrey higher, i don't think theres any team in the league who wouldn't be improved with Jeffrey on their list. I'd have him A, if not A+.

Oh, obviously you've grossly overrated Headland's performance this year on the back of two "good" games.
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Did you miss 2005 when Thornton was healthy and finished right up there in our B&F?

Grover's rating is fair at C+.

Crowley would have been a B/B+ towards the end of last year, but is now playing at a C+. Dodd I believe is pretty close to a B rating.

Mundy I would have had at B+ too, but right now is playing at a C level.

Schammer is a C, and not a C+ at this stage. I'd have McManus at C as well but I doubt everyone on here will agree.
 
I think you're cheating IP by having the -+'s. A bob each way. If you're doing that then Headland and Mundy would be sitting in a B-/C+ level for me; B seems to be for a level of reliability at an above average standard week in, week out. I'd have Grover in the B's before either of them. On last years form Farmer would slot into an A.

Players who may be able to break through to A's for me include Tarrant, Johnson, Sandilands, Mundy.
 

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Kenny_01 said:
Did you miss 2005 when Thornton was healthy and finished right up there in our B&F?

Grover's rating is fair at C+.

Crowley would have been a B/B+ towards the end of last year, but is now playing at a C+. Dodd I believe is pretty close to a B rating.

Mundy I would have had at B+ too, but right now is playing at a C level.

Schammer is a C, and not a C+ at this stage. I'd have McManus at C as well but I doubt everyone on here will agree.
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Moved all three of those up and down between the levels you mentioned, then settled on the ones above.

Schammer as a C would only be due to his injury, he was starting to hit some really good form towards the end of last year; and Macca is in career best form, moving him up from a C+ contributor, to a "solid" contributor - making him a C. Of course these are all totally subjective and based more on "gut feeling" than any KPI stuff that the club might use...

I felt I was a bit harsh on Dodd - just like Grover, but went back to "How would they go at another club"? It's easy to over-rate your own players... ;)
 
theGav56 said:
I think you're cheating IP by having the -+'s. A bob each way. If you're doing that then Headland and Mundy would be sitting in a B-/C+ level for me; B seems to be for a level of reliability at an above average standard week in, week out. I'd have Grover in the B's before either of them. On last years form Farmer would slot into an A.

Players who may be able to break through to A's for me include Tarrant, Johnson, Sandilands, Mundy.
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Probably - but as a girl it's my perogative to be indecisive... ;)


Maybe I will re-do, taking all these opinions into account....
 
Eliminated the +/- categories, and made a few moves based on others' opinions. Feel free to copy and change as you see fit. :)


A: Pav, Hase, Sandi, Farmer

B: Bell, JCarr, Mundy, Tarrant, McPharlin, Black, Johnson, Hayden, Longmuir, Grover

C: Peake, Headland, Schammer, Solomon, Crowley, Thornton, Dodd, Macca, Webster, MCarr, Cook, Murphy, Duffield, Campbell

D: Walker, Parker, Gilmore, Browne, Rumble

Too young / too injured
Drum, O'Brien, Collard, Mourish, Ibbotson, Warnock, Smith, Foster, Copping
Dunn, Haddrill
 
Ripper said:
He was at 54% in 2006 on the pro stats site.

48% would still be more than anyone else , would it not?
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Correct. He also leads hits to advantage by a mile. He work around the ground compared to say, White stops him from being a dominant ruckman though. As someone said earlier, hes the best tap ruckman.
 

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GentlemanJeff said:
I think Sandi is good - and if he actually used is physical presence to inspire fear in the opposition - could one day be a dominant ruckman. But he is not there yet.
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Yup thats the problem with Sandilands at the moment, he'll win the tap, but then go missing around the ground. Very low 1%ers and makes alot of errors.
 
theGav56 said:
Just checking on that stat; Is that 48% of all the ruck contests in a game? Because he would not contest 100% of them. Or, is it 48% of the ones he contests? Makes a big difference either way.
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contests. Sandilands has been in the most ruck contests of any ruckman incidently, which contributes to his big lead in total hitouts.
 
theGav56 said:
Just checking on that stat; Is that 48% of all the ruck contests in a game? Because he would not contest 100% of them. Or, is it 48% of the ones he contests? Makes a big difference either way.
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48% of the contests he contests. He would only contest ~ 80% of the game total ATM.

About 25-30% of ruck contests end up neutralised with no one credited with 'winning" the hitout.
 

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