Autopsy Rd17 Ugly Blues go down by 20

[StandByyourMan]

Yes I am suggesting we will finish closer to bottom 3 than making finals and no I am not kidding. Unless of course, SOS weaves his magic, but we can assess that at the end of the trade/draft period

Well you're not really then. Anyway onwards and upwards

 

[passmark]

Eventually it does have to be more disposals, yes that's true. He's averaging the same amount of disposals per game as Dangerfield in his second year (2 pre-seasons). He had that one really poor game and some meh games, but overall he has had an excellent year for a first year player. Tracking very well indeed.

Guys like Sumner are fair game, but guys who have only done 75% of a pre-season (much less for SPS), I think people need to have realistic expectations of.

Most do.

 

[__Bobcat__]

It's not even a hardness thing with Murphy, it's the basic fact that when he decides not to go into a contest it allows his opponent a direct run at the ball which results in the ball being cleared from a contest. It's a basic expectation when you've got an opportunity to lock down an opponent you at very least ATTEMPT to do so. Not offering anything is akin to giving the contest up and that is what irks me.

Naturally campaigners are going to get crook about questioning the skip (being the captain gives you far more responsibility in setting some fundamental defensive standards) but if he doesn't go, he has to be pulled up on it: the same as every single player on our list. Amazing how little scrutiny is brought to anyone who questions Boekhorst's attack on the ball.

Is the individual bigger than the club?
Can't all individuals be questioned,
If they put in poor or sub standard performances.

Then they can and should be!!!

 

[thylacine60]

Geez, some of you overreact to the mildest opinions.

Frogshit - shut the **** up!

 

[Gethelred]

I'm not sure anyone here actually queries Murphy's courage. He's not Hodge or Voss like, but he puts his head over the footy when he needs to. But he did pull out of contest when he needed to go yesterday. Everyone saw it. Was as plain as day.

Take a look at the last few pages of the game day thread. More than a few heroes in there accusing Murph of cowardice.

 

[Gethelred]

It's not even a hardness thing with Murphy, it's the basic fact that when he decides not to go into a contest it allows his opponent a direct run at the ball which results in the ball being cleared from a contest. It's a basic expectation when you've got an opportunity to lock down an opponent you at very least ATTEMPT to do so. Not offering anything is akin to giving the contest up and that is what irks me.

Naturally campaigners are going to get crook about questioning the skip (being the captain gives you far more responsibility in setting some fundamental defensive standards) but if he doesn't go, he has to be pulled up on it: the same as every single player on our list. Amazing how little scrutiny is brought to anyone who questions Boekhorst's attack on the ball.

Due scrutiny is fine; as I suggested to HBF, check out the final few pages of the gameday thread.

Sure, he pulled out towards the end of the match, and I noticed it. For a Carlton supporter to go from there to questioning everything from his quality to his bravery leads me to question theirs.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Eventually it has to be more disposals.

Take a look at the last few pages of the game day thread. More than a few heroes in there accusing Murph of cowardice.

Call it as we see it!
Fisher is smaller and more desperate

 

[La Dispute]

Due scrutiny is fine; as I suggested to HBF, check out the final few pages of the gameday thread.

Sure, he pulled out towards the end of the match, and I noticed it. For a Carlton supporter to go from there to questioning everything from his quality to his bravery leads me to question theirs.

Why do you care?

If you're going to put in a limp effort, you're subject to scrutiny like anybody else. It's not the first time he's done it and it has an impact on our game: in that scenario we lose the contest easily.

 

[Gethelred]

Why do you care?

If you're going to put in a limp effort, you're subject to scrutiny like anybody else. It's not the first time he's done it and it has an impact on our game: in that scenario we lose the contest easily.

I care because it's a lack of respect, for a player who has given their career to this club. I care because Murph is not just the captain, but loved by his teammates and his coaches. I care because there should be a modicum of respect between us the fans and them the players. I care because to pull him up for pulling out of a contest that he could only have halved at best - at worst, he gives away a front on contact free and a fifty - has lead to plenty around here to question his bravery, which is more than just unfair, it is untrue.

I don't like calling people calling players a list clogger, or weak; Boekhurst may shun contact, but no-one who steps out onto a football field to play AFL is weak. You go and do the preseasons, the rehab, the working and thinking about footy every day until you can't stand it, regardless of how much you love it, as a passion becomes a job for you. Why do you think Judd works only for the paper, sporadically? It burns you out, the life of the player. You do all that, and you tell me that a player who has copped the injuries he's worn for our club is weak or a coward.

Why shouldn't I care?

 

[StandByyourMan]

Need to do it right, the bogan Aussie way

Wrighty, Wrighty, Wrighteeeee.....oi oi oi

Southern cross tattoo with little Matty Wright heads instead of stars

 

[Gethelred]

Call it as we see it!
Fisher is smaller and more desperate

Fish is younger and less broken; doesn't know what he can't do yet.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Take a look at the last few pages of the game day thread. More than a few heroes in there accusing Murph of cowardice.

Stating fact doesn't make you a hero.

On Sunday, Murphy was at worst soft, at best, lacked expected application to the contest on a number of occasions.

This type of application has evolved into his game over recent seasons.

There may be a plethora of reasons why this is so, including past injuries etc. but this is a fact none the less.

Why am I more critical of Murphy than say a Boekhorst? It's simply because he is the Captain of the club.

Boekhorsts lack of application to the contest will be a major contributor to him not being able to forge a substantial career as an AFL footballer.

As Captain, you have to lead by example, you have to set the standards. In respect to application to the contest, unfortunately, Murphy falls short with this.

In my opinion, that's not acceptable for the Captain of an AFL football club.

It sets a poor example to the team, and in particular, the younger players in that team.

 

[Sector 7G]

Having missed the game and just watching replay I was surprised at how big an over reaction to the loss has been.
Gave them four goals
Shocking kick from Weiters
Shocking kick from SPS
Shocking awareness from Kruz with a possible 12 point turnaround
Needless free from Casey where Caz was always taking the mark.

That was the game, never got back in.

Doggies did well to shut down our switch through intense pressure.

While Sumner probably won't make, it he has had no continuity. Can't expect players to play good footy if they are in and out of the side and missing games due to being held over and VFL byes.

 

[Gethelred]

Stating fact doesn't make you a hero.

On Sunday, Murphy was at worst soft, at best, lacked expected application to the contest on a number of occasions.

This type of application has evolved into his game over recent seasons.

There may be a plethora of reasons why this is so, including past injuries etc. but this is a fact none the less.

Why am I more critical of Murphy than say a Boekhorst? It's simply because he is the Captain of the club.

Boekhorsts lack of application to the contest will be a major contributor to him not being able to forge a substantial career as an AFL footballer.

As Captain, you have to lead by example, you have to set the standards. In respect to application to the contest, unfortunately, Murphy falls short with this.

In my opinion, that's not acceptable for the Captain of an AFL football club.

It sets a poor example to the team, and in particular, the younger players in that team.

There is a clear difference between what you are doing here and the behaviour I'm objecting to.

What you have said is more or less that, on Sunday, Murphy was not up to the standards we hopefully set ourselves; in pulling out of that contest, he chose not to go, and that sets the wrong example. I don't disagree with this, but on Sunday - when we've already lost Cripps to an injury, when we were down to one on the bench - I'm not unhappy he didn't risk injury to at best halve a contest he may only have just made in time.

All of that is completely separate to the labelling of Murphy as soft, weak, cowardly. One is a judgement of his game, the other of his character. Play the ball, not the man.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

There is a clear difference between what you are doing here and the behaviour I'm objecting to.

What you have said is more or less that, on Sunday, Murphy was not up to the standards we hopefully set ourselves; in pulling out of that contest, he chose not to go, and that sets the wrong example. I don't disagree with this, but on Sunday - when we've already lost Cripps to an injury, when we were down to one on the bench - I'm not unhappy he didn't risk injury to at best halve a contest he may only have just made in time.

All of that is completely separate to the labelling of Murphy as soft, weak, cowardly. One is a judgement of his game, the other of his character. Play the ball, not the man.

It's not the singular contest on Sunday that forms my opinion of Murphys lack of application to the contest.
As I have stated, this standard of application has evolved in his game where I believe it is now at a point that is not acceptable for the Captain of the club.
One of my comments on this game day thread relating to Murphys lack of application overstepped the mark, I was pulled up on it at the time and agree my comment wasn't acceptable.
None of this changes my opinion that Murphy is now soft at the contest.

 

[Gethelred]

It's not the singular contest on Sunday that forms my opinion of Murphys lack of application to the contest.
As I have stated, this standard of application has evolved in his game where I believe it is now at a point that is not acceptable for the Captain of the club.
One of my comments on this game day thread relating to Murphys lack of application overstepped the mark, I was pulled up on it at the time and agree my comment wasn't acceptable.
None of this changes my opinion that Murphy is now soft at the contest.

Well then.

I'm curious; what lead you to form this impression? The injuries he's suffered as a result of playing inside in an era of giants? The fact that he's attempting to carry his side on his back, alongside Cripps and Gibbs? That he's had to present up to the media, in our wooden spoon years, and had nothing with which to pin on to hold his pride, nothing save his own efforts? That every year of his captaincy has seen improvement in his leadership, on and off field?

Not everyone is a natural leader, and not everyone is blessed with the bull at a gate style that is currently in vogue. Murphy has worn the losses, the statements from pricks in the media and the public; does he now deserve to be attacked by his own supporters?

All this, because he pulled up once on Sunday?

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Well then.

I'm curious; what lead you to form this impression? The injuries he's suffered as a result of playing inside in an era of giants? The fact that he's attempting to carry his side on his back, alongside Cripps and Gibbs? That he's had to present up to the media, in our wooden spoon years, and had nothing with which to pin on to hold his pride, nothing save his own efforts? That every year of his captaincy has seen improvement in his leadership, on and off field?

Not everyone is a natural leader, and not everyone is blessed with the bull at a gate style that is currently in vogue. Murphy has worn the losses, the statements from pricks in the media and the public; does he now deserve to be attacked by his own supporters?

All this, because he pulled up once on Sunday?

Seriously, I'm not going to argue semantics with you.

And please, spare me the martyrdom spiel of the burdens the modern day footballer has to carry.

FFS, he plays sport for a living, it's hardly as dramatic in the big scheme of things as you make it out to be.

Murphy is a professional footballer paid somewhere in the vicinity of $800k per annum to apply his talents to his chosen field. He is also the Captain of the club.

As in any professional endeavour, I would assume there are certain core KPIs you have to meet?

In a physical sporting contest, and being leader of the team, setting the standard in your application to the contest I assume would be one of them? In my expectation it would be close to the top of the list, one of the core KPIs of your role.

If for any particular reason he can't meet this core KPI then it is my opinion he is not suitable to be the Captain of the club. Plain & simple.

Murphy cannot seriously ask one of the young blokes to "go" when, by example, he doesn't do the same.

Setting the example is a fundamental plank of successful leadership.

For these reasons I believe Murphy should have been relieved of the captaincy this year.

I believe this was identified by Bolton when he assumed control of the team. Due to a numbers of factors at the time, including a dearth of viable alternatives, this was not done.

I'd be very surprised if Murphy was Captain next year. The reasons I have stated in my posts will form the main basis of why this will occur.

 

[Gethelred]

Seriously, I'm not going to argue semantics with you.

And please, spare me the martyrdom spiel of the burdens the modern day footballer has to carry.

FFS, he plays sport for a living, it's hardly as dramatic in the big scheme of things as you make it out to be.

Murphy is a professional footballer paid somewhere in the vicinity of $800k per annum to apply his talents to his chosen field. He is also the Captain of the club.

As in any professional endeavour, I would assume there are certain core KPIs you have to meet?

In a physical sporting contest, and being leader of the team, setting the standard in your application to the contest I assume would be one of them? In my expectation it would be close to the top of the list, one of the core KPIs of your role.

If for any particular reason he can't meet this core KPI then it is my opinion he is not suitable to be the Captain of the club. Plain & simple.

Murphy cannot seriously ask one of the young blokes to "go" when, by example, he doesn't do the same.

Setting the example is a fundamental plank of successful leadership.

For these reasons I believe Murphy should have been relieved of the captaincy this year.

I believe this was identified by Bolton when he assumed control of the team. Due to a numbers of factors at the time, including a dearth of viable alternatives, this was not done.

I'd be very surprised if Murphy was Captain next year. The reasons I have stated in my posts will form the main basis of why this will occur.

For someone unwilling to argue semantics, you're certainly willing to pontificate on things which support your own point of view.

Beyond the single instance we saw on the weekend, can you highlight other instances in which you can prove that he has pulled out, failed to meet a standard set for him, or anything other than simply wishing he was Joel Selwood?

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

For someone unwilling to argue semantics, you're certainly willing to pontificate on things which support your own point of view.

Beyond the single instance we saw on the weekend, can you highlight other instances in which you can prove that he has pulled out, failed to meet a standard set for him, or anything other than simply wishing he was Joel Selwood?

Oh, I'm more than happy to pontificate !!

Nah, I think I've outlined my thoughts clearly enough. Nothing more to be gained other than to bore myself and others on the forum with anymore back and forth.

It would be safe to assume that we see Murphys game from completely different perspectives. My expectations of the leader of the club obviously vary greatly to those of yours.

 

[Aphrodite]

 

[La Dispute]

For someone unwilling to argue semantics, you're certainly willing to pontificate on things which support your own point of view.

Beyond the single instance we saw on the weekend, can you highlight other instances in which you can prove that he has pulled out, failed to meet a standard set for him, or anything other than simply wishing he was Joel Selwood?

Take it you didn't see the game against Adelaide? 2 missed tackles that resulted in goals.

It's a regular occurrence

 

[Gethelred]

Take it you didn't see the game against Adelaide? 2 missed tackles that resulted in goals.

It's a regular occurrence

Here's an idea; how about we stop wishing Murphy was Selwood? How does that sound as far as a good idea goes?

On the subject of regular occurrences, there's a fair few criticisms of Murphy that have been leveled at him only on this board after some advocated getting in his ear to get him to ask out. This is one of them.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Take it you didn't see the game against Adelaide? 2 missed tackles that resulted in goals.

It's a regular occurrence

2 missed tackles by Murphy? Yeah so? He's a small fella - missing tackles doesn't mean he's soft it literally means his body isn't capable. Thats no slight on him, in fact it probably means he's playing with a shoulder injury - hence the constant strapping for the last month and a half.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Don't let your short memories get in the way though - Murph was our best tackler for around the first 6 or 7 rounds this season. Comfortably led the tackle count. He's obviously fallen away and that would be to do with struggling with a shoulder injury - not because he's decided mid season he wants to let his teammates down.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Gee whiz, how much has this been blown out of proportion. There's no difference between commenting that Murph shirked a contest and saying that Graham shanked a kick or Kerridge fumbled the ball. It's not a slight on their character, it's a fact.

There's a difference between "Murph shirked a contest" and "Murph is a soft campaigner who should **** off"--no need to get knickers/jocks in a twist over the former.