Realism

[Frodo]

Todays defeat was the worst I have been to. We were beaten all around the ground. We will not play finals footy.
Judge once again had no idea of the plot. The team is without structure, without passion, unsisciplined and our key players are too injury prone.

We recruited two reasonable player in Collica and Prior, two duds in Harding and Carrol and an unknown in Sierakowski.
The following players can be written off as too injury prone and old to figure in a serious Eagles challenge in coming years.
Macintosh
Jakovich
Kemp
Peter Matera
Cummings
Turnbull( although he was a much better CHB option today than Jako)

We have Glass to come back but no other potential defender in the wings other than the untried Gaspar.

We have some good prospects who wont be up to standard for at least 3 years.

I look at the Eagles and their attitude and it is not good, It hasn't been good since not long after Malthouse left.

I have no doubt that our firts step on the road back to success is to SACK KEN JUDGE

 

[WCE2000]

Ken Judge may be a good recruiter, but he hasn't got an idea how to form a game plan.

Maybe would should add him to the development staff, and bring some ex-eagles into the coaching panel.

ex-eagles with passion.

John Worsfold, McKenna should be promoted to head coach. bring some passion back, bring some players who know what goes on out on the field to give guidance.

 

[Frodo]

Game starts with Milli at CHF hobbling from the start. In defence we haven't enough talls for a matchup. They drop four into the goalsquare with an empty paddock between them and 50 meteres out. Just maybe the plan was to lead out in that space because our defenders (Jako in particular) would be nowhere near them!!!!!! Wow, hard to work that one out Judgey. Well you did at three quarter time and put Jako at CHF and Turnbull at CHB. Some structure at last and a tall that can at least get within 1 meter of his opponent on the run!
Ever thought about playing a loose man 20 metres in front of the goal square Ken? Or do we just let them run riot for three quarters before any move.
Maybe Sierra and Ready will be in next weeks squad. Playing injured players seems to be the go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And get Wirra out of the defence. He has brilliant ball skills but must be the easiest defender to lose in the competition. He's a ball watcher.

I see Gehrig is playing CHB for Saints. Pity Judgey didn't think about doing that last season. It may have turned Gehrig around as a player...but Judgey aint got much between the ears

 

[WCE2000]

Gehrig was never going to reach has potential at West Coast.

he just wasn't happy at the club - you can't blame Ken Judge for Gehrig's problems.

 

[Frodo]

Gehrig was happy under Malthouse and wanted to go to Collingwood. Along with a lot of Eagles players last year they didn't like Judge.
A good motivator may have turned Gehrig around. As it was , once he decided to go he stopped trying.

 

[iceman]

hmm.. not a good game at all

some moves that i think should be made in the coming weeks:

- jakovich out of defence (hes getting killed by quicker players)

- wirrapunda into the midfield (add some spark there)

- put some of our youngsters into the team, we're not gonna get anywhere with mcintosh limping, kemp on the bench etc

finals are almost certainly gone but lets hope we get something out of this year

 

[eagleskickass]

Adam Hunter had a stint at CHB as well, and he did alright. Maybe we could give him a bit more of a go there and see if he can be used there instead of Jako. As Dad said to me tonight, have no bloody idea where we could play Jako at the moment, he's too slow. McIntosh and Kemp unfortunately, because of their past brilliace, should retire at years end, and Judgey onto the recriuting staff, has no idea, NO IDEA, what so ever how to coach an AFL team. Maybe he should go back to little league. This isn't a case where you can say that its the players fault for not carrying out his game plan, cause he doesn't have one, and if he did, it was so confusing that not one Eagle understood what he wanted done, and had to try improvise for the entire game!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iceman]

Lets say we sack Ken Judge next week... who do we get to replace him???

Guy McKenna? not qualified enough

John Worsfold? wont leave Carlton till the end of the year

Damien Drum?

i think we need a proven coach, im thinking a Terry Wallace who inspires his players

untried coaches (ie: Tim Watson) very rarely succeed

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

How about Rob Wiley? He has coaching experience under Malthouse and now KJ, and he was smart enough to turn down the coaching job at freo 3yrs ago.

Maybe sack KJ at about rd10 (if we don't improve) and have Wiley as caretaker coach. From what i've seen on TV he looks like he knows what he's talking about.

But we should certainly keep KJ on for a recruiting position. Would the eagles be willing to pay him his current salary if he was downgraded to recruiter?

Something drastic has to be done.

 

[iceman]

i was gonna put Rob Wiley as a candidate in my above post, but i thought that he's been at the club for ages now...

wouldnt his message to the players be a bit stale now??

 

[tjrra]

Some good comments, I can't see a quick fix for the Eagles problems. Looking through the team list only a couple of players could solve problems.
Antonowicz --injured has played as a defender
Michael Braun-- played two games WAFL
Wooden--injured
Gaspar--playing well at WAFL level
Donnelly--playing WAFL
Munro--no real form at WAFL
Embley--???
Humm --has played in defence for East Perth
Haynes-- no real form at WAFL
As you can see there are no real replacements ready to step up, apart from Braun and Embley.
No wonder Judge said it was a bloody nightmare.

 

[Westy Boy]

Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes

But we should certainly keep KJ on for a recruiting position. Would the eagles be willing to pay him his current salary if he was downgraded to recruiter?

What did Judge do at Hawthorn?

He coached! Not recruit!

Coach's ask recruiting managers to look out for the type of players that they're looking for. Ken Judge will look at the players at the draft camp.... not exactly indicative of a players ability in matches.

You all think he's some sort of recruiting guru? What do you think KJ is doing now? Eyeing talent around the country, watching/ assessing/reporitng on Draft Canditate #534661616, playing for the Gippsland Falcons, or devising a plan for the match against the Hawks?

We had a bloke called Kleiman..... one successful draft choice in 4 f*ckin years (we're paying for it now).... he got the sack (then went to Colingwood ) and now we've got Clayton who was at Brisbane for a fair few years and responsible for recruiting Leppitsch, Power, Black, Voss (through zoning), Keating, Akermanis etc. etc. The difference between the respective success of the managers have been immediate, and nothing short of stunning.

You certainly wouldn't credit these players to Robert Walls!..... who's available to coach since you all want Judge sacked

Look towards recruiting managers for success in recruiting.... quite simple really.

 

[carb70]

Sorry guys but now you can see why I was so confident in my predicition. Port are the real deal and West Coast are not the great team they once used to be. Even when Dew was cut out of the game we still managed to win easily. West Coast need to consider sacking Judge he is just too negative. They need to recruit a coach who has a positive game plan this defensive game plan is going to get you no where.

 

[eagleskickass]

One thing that can be said I think, both WA clubs will have new coaches next year, neither of the current ones are going too well.

 

[GoEagles]

From the people who were sitting around me yesterday, they will be throwing in their memberships if actions aren't taken in making the club competitive and having a red hot go. When Judge was appointed as Eagles coach I knew we would never make the finals when he was coach purely because he doesn't have the experience, winning history and personality to be a good coach. His negativity surely isn't motivating to the players - not one player has stepped up and been a shining light for us since he was coach. The fact is, he does NOT get the best out of players. His coaching moves are so irratic I often wonder if he wants his old job at East Fremantle back.

If Judge doesn't go... many Eagles members will. It's not a sourgrapes or jumping off the bandwagon - it's their right. They don't have a say in how the club runs, so why should they part with their hard earned to see second rate footy.

 

[Frodo]

The three reasons I don't rate Judge are

1) The players don't have passion, pride for their guernseys and themselves. That is a management problem directly relating to Judge. I'm not saying Woosha will make a great coach but I find it impossible to think that under Woosha the Eagles would play with such apathy.

2) I cannot see a gameplan. I can see what the opposition is trying but not Judgey.

3) He reacts to bad matchups and tactical changes by the opposition way too late. Is he nodding off to sleep in the game?


Carlton would let Woosha go if the coaches job was offered. I see no point in sticking with Judge for any longer.

 

[Westy Boy]

Originally posted by Frodo

Carlton would let Woosha go if the coaches job was offered. I see no point in sticking with Judge for any longer.

He was interviewed by TripleM in Melbourne on Sunday, and said that he felt that he wasn't ready for an AFL senior coaching position at the moment. Worsfold went on to say that he would definitely consider the Fremantle position at the end of the year (the WC position wasn't discussed as they probably consider it 'safe' in comparison), and IMO, it would be fairly naive to think that Freo haven't approached him for exactly that, as of yet. Which means.... get moving!

Personally, since Worsfold isn't prepared to take the next step right now, and you don't have anyone else in mind to take a caretaker role (replacing Judge) until the end of the season, it would be better to stick with him. IMO, A caretaker coach, that realistically wont be considered for next years position, will usually prove far more disruptive to the teams chances this year and next, than keeping Judge on.

In saying that, Wallace was only considered a caretaker coach during 96, until a 'better credentialed' coach could be found in the next season, but we stuck with him despite only having 3 out of 11 wins in his first year, that has worked out well for us.

One thing with your situation is that it's a good opportunity to start with a clean slate. But once you get your new coach, don't go calling for his head if things don't improve staight away. You could experience exactly the same start next season.... will you be calling for the new blokes to be axed as well? The coach can only do so much with what he's got to work with.

 

[pauljam]

Frodo,

I agree 100% with your post about Judge - he seems to either be asleep in the box or too scared to make a move!!! I was sure that at 1/4 or half time the boys would come out and HAVE A GO!

I dont mind getting thrashed if we at least try - Judgey doesnt seem to be able to inspire the team at all. Someone like Terry Wallace can get much more out of his list than he should, while Judge seems to get much less than he should.

In short he cant inspire the players, the game plan is just NON EXISTENT and every supporter near me could have made the moves at least a quarter before Ken did......

Judge has to go if we want to improve - Woosha could not do worse in the short term and will do better in the long term...

 

[jod23]

Fair enough Judge isnt the best of coaches but to be honest with 7 games gone i didnt expect us to be 7-0 or 5-2 or 3-4. I expected us to be just about where we are right now. Judge must stay on for the rest of the year and see how we go, obviously there will have to be a decision at the end of the year but caretaker coaches never work out. Just let this year run its course and im sure we will be ok. (Ok meaning no wooden spoon)

 

[Captain Random]

It's not about game plans or match day tactics. Judge gets criticised for being too slow in reacting to moves, but there's a room full of guys up there who all have a part to play in that. Judge will be greatly assisted by the quality of the advice he's getting from those around him, like any other general in a battle, so his tactical performance can always be improved. Maybe the advice he's getting isn't the best. In any event, you've got to wonder what's going on up in the glass box when they apparently didn't spot a key player sitting on the fence with a busted knee.

The biggest concern for mine has to be the sheer lack of motivation. The players on Sunday just didn't seem to give a ********. They've got to run through walls for the coach, to tackle hard and get their opponents thinking twice, not just to slap their opponent on the back and think that's close enough for a tackle.

And a couple of on-field leaders need to have a bit of a look at themselves. In the third, when Port was kicking to the 3-tier end, a kick came in from the wing to a leading Port forward (can't remember who) in traffic. What happened? Co-Captain Benny stood there and watched the Port player take a chest mark directly in front of him, instead of putting himself on the line and blocking it off. Bloody summed the day up for mine

Sorry if this rambles around a bit. Geez, I'll be an Eagles man until I die, but that game was extremely difficult to stomach. I can handle a loss, I just can't handle the lack of passion, that's all

 

[eagleskickass]

What you have just said carneagles has summed up a lot of what we have been saying. We all know Judgey isn't the only one to make decisions, but he does make the final judgement on every move on game day, and can make any move he wants without any advice. Also, you say they played without pasion, and I totally agree with that. Definately the on field leaders need to help in this area, but you also need a coach that will inspire players. One that, when he just lifts an eyebrow, gets the players to shut up and listen, and then react to what they are saying. I don't know if Judge has these qualities, I don't think he has, but I am not for a caretaker coach, they NEVER work. Definately keep him till the end of the season and see how we go, and see who else is available. Then make an informed judgement on where we are, as a team, and as a leadership group.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I also believe KJ should be kept on for the rest of the season. BUT, his position should definately be reviewed soon, even if just to tell him "listen mate, we don't expect miracles but your job is on the line".

 

[Captain Random]

I agree eagleskickass, we need an inspirational coach. I guess I'm saying that tactical deficiencies in a coach can be remedied, but an inability to spark up your players just can't. That's why you want a coach with credentials like Worsfold.

I also agree that a caretaker isn't the answer, but it's a moot point anyway - I seem to recall that Judge was coming on board with assurances from the club that they'd keep him no matter how bad it got, the ox is slow etc. We've got him for the next 18 months by the look of it

You never know, the Eagles may fire and we'll all eat our words. Let's hope so. Look at Williams at Port for example, this time last year he was staring down the barrel

 

[Frodo]

I'll tell you yjat in the average company boardroom there are plenty of directors giving inputs but only one CEO making decisions. And the coaches box is the same. It's Judgeys shout. I have never given a more foul mouthed serve than Sunday when Prior was writhing below me and a port runner had to go and get an Eagles runner to point Prior out. What a bloody joke.

Stuff the end of season yjing. Get on to Woosha TONIGHT. Sign him tomorrow and boot Judge now.
Just give me the telephone numbers and authority Eagles management and I'll have Woosha in the Chair Saturday.