Teams Replacing 2009

[Persevering Saint]

Okay, so this was our team from the 2009 Grand Final, were we came within inches of winning the big shebang.

Tall defensive backs: Jason Blake, Zac Dawson
Small defensive backs: Steven Baker, Raphael Clarke
Offensive backs: Sam Gilbert, Sam Fisher


Inside mids: Lenny Hayes, Luke Ball, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna,
Outside mids: Brendan Goddard, Farren Ray, Jason Gram
Taggers: Clinton Jones, Sean Dempster
Rucks: Michael Gardiner, Steven King


Tall Forwards: Nick Riewoldt, Justin Koschitzke
Small Forwards: Stephen Milne, Adam Schneider
Medium Forward: NONE
Defensive Forwards: Andrew McQualter

(I think Montagna and Dal were played as more extractors AND play makers under Lyon).

Obviously, no sub. But do we think that structure would still work today? And if so, who on our list currently fulfills each players' role. SOME are still the same players, although it seems some players are now used in different roles. And obviously some players have been replaced. Some are about to be.
Are the quality of replacements now, or in the future going to improve to the level of that 2009 team?

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

According to Fremantle supporters our list when we made the 09 and 10 Grand finals it was "Pretty average" so might be easy to replace.

 

[L_W_P]

Will have a crack at this in about an hour or so

 

[Squizz]

Think the youngest player in the GF team was Gilbert at 23yo? Just seemed to have a amazing clutch of guys in that age bracket (23-26) that we're now severely light on in.

I note a large proportion of mids from picks 10-50 in 2008 became decent players and a large number of talls did the same in 2009. We went the complete opposite!

Combine that misread with that host of players falling out of the "sweet spot" age bracket (and guys that were just outside the bracket are now at the end of their careers). Yuk.

 

[L_W_P]

2009 = italics
2017= bold

Blake - Dawson - Baker
Gwilt - ??? - Wright
Gilbert - Fisher - Gram
Gilbert - ??? - Webster
Goddard - Hayes - Montagna
Markworth - Steven - Newnes
McQualter - Roo - Dempster
Murdoch - White - Lee
Milne - Kosi - Schneider
Saad - Stanley - Minchington
Gardiner - Jones - Dal Santo
McEvoy - Geary - Saunders
King - Ball - Ray - Clarke
Hickey - Simpkin - Ross - Curren

I'm not sure if Stanley plays back or forward. I would play him forward to be totally honest but we may need him down back.

The other thing lacking in this team is serious pace and size through the midfield. The likes of Newnes, Markworth, Webster, Murdoch and Wright would obviously play through there but I had to really stretch to play Saunders on ball and change our one pace lineup.

I think two rucks will work going forward. The interchange cap will eventually bring it back into vogue and with two rucks who are as god around the ground as Hickey and Macca, we should be ok. They both need to learn to at least pinch hit forward as they will basically be rotating all over the ground and moving between centre square ruck work, forward play and loose in defence.

Looking at this I wouldn't be totally upset if we miss out on Boyd. If he is there we should take him but if he is gone then we can get to work on rebuilding our midfield with someone who can play inside with a burst of speed ala Judd or pre injury Ball or Cooney. I personally like Billings but would be happy with any of Crouch, Dunstan, Kelly etc.

We are missing the 'pack buster' with this line up however a solid state league forward *cough*Haretuku*cough* should be enough to at least provide an option should we miss out on Boyd and draft an elite mid. Worst case scenario would see Macca playing at full forward for longer periods ala Brad Ottens.

Assuming Boyd is gone we should grab the best mids with our first 2 picks (both will be inside 25) and then look at state league talls, both forward and back, in the late/rookie picks.

Also looking at this Im not sure where a guy like Adam Cockie would fit in. Im leaving out Dunell, Ledger, Milera, Ray, Dal, Joey and Siposs, all of which could be in this team in 3-4 years, because I've got concerns on either fitness, talent or their ability to go through the midfield on a regular rotation. Im still in favour of getting Cockie onto the list but he still has a long way to go before getting a game.

I also think this highlights why we were so keen on Caddy last year and are apparently going after Adams this year. Picks 3 and 22ish for Adams and 10??

That gives us a ready made inside mid and we can cross our fingers that one of Billings/Crouch/Dunstan/Kelly slides to 10??

 

[MordySaint]

Head Coach 2009 - Lyon
Right Hand Man 2009 - No One

Head Coach 2013 - Watters
Right Hand Man 2013 - Laidley

Head Coach 2017 - R.Harvey
Right Hand Man 2017 - N.Riewoldt

 

[L_W_P]

As much as I love Banger on the field, I really don't think he would be a good head coach. He wasn't great with our midfield while he was here and the Pies midfield has taken a couple of steps back under the Buckley/Harvey combo (with the exception of Beams)

I think he would be a great mentor to come in once a week and run a training session but I think that he's one of those guys that was just naturally better and it's hard to teach natural talent into people.

It's the same reason people say guys like Peyton Manning or Michael Jordan couldn't be head coaches. It's hard to train perfection into other people haha

 

[MordySaint]

As much as I love Banger on the field, I really don't think he would be a good head coach. He wasn't great with our midfield while he was here and the Pies midfield has taken a couple of steps back under the Buckley/Harvey combo (with the exception of Beams)

I think he would be a great mentor to come in once a week and run a training session but I think that he's one of those guys that was just naturally better and it's hard to teach natural talent into people.

It's the same reason people say guys like Peyton Manning or Michael Jordan couldn't be head coaches. It's hard to train perfection into other people haha

Its pretty clear he has aspirations to be a head coach. Not sure Michael Jordan has been putting in the hard yards at the Chicago Bulls as a assistant coach. Thats one definite we know about Banger, he never gives in and he does the hard work.... people who work hard get the rewards... sooner or later. I know which midfield I would rather have at the moment!

 

[L_W_P]

Im sure he will but I hope it's not that soon. At least not with us.

Scotty is out of contract at the end of next year I think? Let's face reality: we will be bottom four again. Im hopeful that the board, coaches, players and fans are all on the same page and that we can renew him for a further 3 years to see out the rebuild in full. If it's successful then he will earn another 3-4 years to try and smash the finals.

No point dropping him in 2-3 years when the job is only half done.

 

[MordySaint]

Fair enough, I am not calling for a change.... not in the short term. Give Watters a chance to execute his plan.

Just thinking how good it would be to having Banger and Roo up in the coaches box together.... one day

 

[SaintLex]

Fair enough, I am not calling for a change.... not in the short term. Give Watters a chance to execute his plan.

Just thinking how good it would be to having Banger and Roo up in the coaches box together.... one day

FWIW, I think Roo will go into the media, rather than coaching

 

[Persevering Saint]

Gee, let me see: subject yourself to media scrutiny, be under the constant demands and pressure of coaching, to the point where you don't see your mega-hot wife regularly and start a family; OR be adored by the masses, make plenty of cash, go home to said mega-hot wife every evening except either Friday or Saturday, and probably spend the off-season at her family's mega-rich ranch in Texas.

What will Nick do? What will Nick do...?

 

[Mowman]

Hi Guys first post, would love to see Lenny7 coaching in 2017

 

[MordySaint]

Gee, let me see: subject yourself to media scrutiny, be under the constant demands and pressure of coaching, to the point where you don't see your mega-hot wife regularly and start a family; OR be adored by the masses, make plenty of cash, go home to said mega-hot wife every evening except either Friday or Saturday, and probably spend the off-season at her family's mega-rich ranch in Texas.

What will Nick do? What will Nick do...?

Some people have more initiative than sitting in the media, taking pot shots at people and racking in the cash.

Barassi, Jeans, Malthouse, Hafey .... Legends of the game. You don't see these guys wasting their time talking BS and playing the devils advocate like the current media.

Watch Rooey talk to his troups before each quarter? Inspiration, charisma and intelligence!!!

Imagine that as a coach... that is what we need.

 

[SaintLex]

Some people have more initiative than sitting in the media, taking pot shots at people and racking in the cash.

Barassi, Jeans, Malthouse, Hafey .... Legends of the game. You don't see these guys wasting their time talking BS and playing the devils advocate like the current media.

Watch Rooey talk to his troups before each quarter? Inspiration, charisma and intelligence!!!

Imagine that as a coach... that is what we need.

'I'm towards the end of my career and I'm starting to plan. I'm doing a bit of media stuff, which interests me, and I wouldn't mind staying involved in football in that respect.
Coaching and being involved in a football club life doesn't really interest me at this stage. I can't see myself coaching.'
From an interview in the HS: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...n-footy-mad-city/story-e6frf7kx-1226634727800
Obviously things can change, but he seems very suited to a role in the media. He was great up in the commentary box on ch7 and he has a semi-regular role on shows like AFL game day. Has a long media career ahead of him, I feel.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Hi Guys first post, would love to see Lenny7 coaching in 2017

Welcome to BF Craig

True there is a lot of romance in having Lenny back as a coach

 

[Baldur]

Head Coach 2009 - Lyon
Right Hand Man 2009 - No One

Head Coach 2013 - Watters
Right Hand Man 2013 - Laidley

Head Coach 2017 - R.Harvey
Right Hand Man 2017 - N.Riewoldt

I know this will not be popular but please no. I hope that we never hire a St Kilda champion as head coach unless he has already succeeded as a head coach somewhere else.

The board of the St Kilda football club have enough issues on their plate, without having to deal with a head coach that is so loved by the members that they cannot do their job of reviewing his proformance correctly. Nor is there an relationship between being a great player and a great coach.

Just look at the issues at Essendon are having with Hird. If it was not Hird not only would things not have been allowed to get so out of whack but they would have been able to sack him as he deserves.

 

[mysainters]

Never replaced Michael Gardiners impact on games

 

[MordySaint]

I know this will not be popular but please no. I hope that we never hire a St Kilda champion as head coach unless he has already succeeded as a head coach somewhere else.

The board of the St Kilda football club have enough issues on their plate, without having to deal with a head coach that is so loved by the members that they cannot do their job of reviewing his proformance correctly. Nor is there an relationship between being a great player and a great coach.

Just look at the issues at Essendon are having with Hird. If it was not Hird not only would things not have been allowed to get so out of whack but they would have been able to sack him as he deserves.

Codswallop, Who was our coach when we won our one and only premiership. A St Kilda player.

Re: Hird... if it wasn't for Hirds greatness and the fact that he is a champion of the club, Essendon would be in dire s&%t. But they are challenging for the premiership!

 

[MordySaint]

Never replaced Michael Gardiners impact on games

Very true, I thought the Big Show was an absolute gun when he was up and running at the Saints. Great recruiting!

His injury in the drawn GF hurt us, but I have to admit the way Kosi took on the ruck roles in the second half I will never forget. Kosi you are a legend.

 

[Baldur]

Codswallop, Who was our coach when we won our one and only premiership. A St Kilda player.

Re: Hird... if it wasn't for Hirds greatness and the fact that he is a champion of the club, Essendon would be in dire s&%t. But they are challenging for the premiership!

Allan Jeans was not a champion St Kilda player, he had a modest 77 game career. A great coach but no world beater as a player.

In any event you are engaging in what I call, magic thinking. We had a ex St Kilda player as coach for our only premiership, so we will win another if we have a ex St Kilda player as coach. The same sort of thinking that causes players to have lucky socks, and pre game rituals.

As for Hird, they are in dire straits, have you not read any news about the ASADA investigation.

 

[MordySaint]

You got me!!! Magic thinking yes, tradition yes, game day underpants yes!

Time will tell with Essendon, their legals have them covered. They were just the unlucky ones to get caught with their pants down.... Essendon was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If the government wasn't performing an investigation into drugs in sport... this would have been swept under the carpet.

 

[hayes]

If the government wasn't performing an investigation into drugs in sport... this would have been swept under the carpet.

So in other words if they didn't get caught they would've been fine?

 

[Persevering Saint]

A good coach needs to have smarts, care, and intimidation: they need to be smart enough to see a game plan, etc; they need to show care, to give a carrot to the team when necessary; and they need to scare the living crap out of their players, give a stick to the team when necessary.

Ross Lyon was VERY smart, VERY intimidating, and a complete twat at care, except to favorites. That combination will always be great in the immediate for a strong side, but will be terrible in the long term.

Robert Harvey is KINDA smart, terrific at care, and about as intimidating as crying beagle. He's an assistant coach - gives the advice, and leaves the bad-cop routine to whoever is really in charge (Malthouse is great at intimidation, as is Bucks).

Lenny Hayes would be all three - awesome coach material. Smart and experienced, inspirational and loving to his players, and flipping terrifying when he needs to be. If we ended up with him as coach in, say 3-4 years time, we could do a helluvalot worse.

The other ex-Saint who will be an astonishingly good coach, is Luke Ball. MEGA-Smart, excellent at caring, and can really lay down the crazy-eye-terror when he needs to. If he ends up as our coach after a few years as an assistant somewhere, yikes, we'd be in a good spot.

 

[Tragic sainter]

A good coach needs to have smarts, care, and intimidation: they need to be smart enough to see a game plan, etc; they need to show care, to give a carrot to the team when necessary; and they need to scare the living crap out of their players, give a stick to the team when necessary.

Ross Lyon was VERY smart, VERY intimidating, and a complete twat at care, except to favorites. That combination will always be great in the immediate for a strong side, but will be terrible in the long term.

Robert Harvey is KINDA smart, terrific at care, and about as intimidating as crying beagle. He's an assistant coach - gives the advice, and leaves the bad-cop routine to whoever is really in charge (Malthouse is great at intimidation, as is Bucks).

Lenny Hayes would be all three - awesome coach material. Smart and experienced, inspirational and loving to his players, and flipping terrifying when he needs to be. If we ended up with him as coach in, say 3-4 years time, we could do a helluvalot worse.

The other ex-Saint who will be an astonishingly good coach, is Luke Ball. MEGA-Smart, excellent at caring, and can really lay down the crazy-eye-terror when he needs to. If he ends up as our coach after a few years as an assistant somewhere, yikes, we'd be in a good spot.

Good call on Luke ball, always thought he'd make a fantastic coach one day.