The ground is crap
Return to Princes Park: MARCH 2017
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Well I liked going there, we didn't win very much as the opposition, but it was a good ground.
North should probably be playing a few home games against non Vic sides there too.
Maybe even the odd Melbourne game there too.
Ned_Flanders
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the ground was okay, but parking was horrid and getting the tram in from Flinders Street was a battle royale
the big thing however is Carlton killed themselves by gouging clubs who played there. That was the reason clubs ran to Marvel when it became available
What do you mean? Off the gate takings?
I know St.Kilda fans hated seeing their Saints play there.... Waverley is where they should have stayed in the south east.
Ned_Flanders
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Carlton charged a rental to use the ground, and it was that high most games lost clubs money.
Not surprising it was a Elliot idea, get clubs to pay for the expansion of CFC. As with most Elliot ideas it was too shortsighted. He didn't see the future opportunity to get clubs imbedded there (by keeping it cheap) and use that to drive AFL investment into the facility.
Ned_Flanders
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Try Richmond fans. We loathe Carlton with a passion and to play home games on their deck was just all kinds of wrong
Pardon the pun!
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The only issue with this is that before Docklands was built, the AFL didnt really invest in any facilities before 2002. The VFL Ground Improvement fund hadnt existed for years before that, and once Docklands was built the league was never going to go for a third stadium - EGate and other proposals were never taken serously.
Ned_Flanders
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That's a lack of vision issue though. Everyone knew the issues with waverley, and that a decision one way or another was inevitable. Carlton could have chosen to make PP a part of that solution by making it essential for the smaller clubs. Treating them with contempt did the exact opposite
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Everyone had that lack of vision.
The decision to sell Waverly and proceed with Docklands was made in 1996-97. No one knew that 2002 was going to deliver so much revenue to the league - tv rights went from 40 to 100m a year overnight.
Ned_Flanders
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It's not about that. It's about the fact that even docklands offered better financial outcomes for clubs that Jack was willing to give at PP. He saw clubs playing there as a short term gouge, nothing more.
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He didnt have an option of offering better terms - the league told Carlton that games would not be fixtured at the ground long term - Oakley says he told Elliot early on - to the point that the league paid Carlton for years after the move to Docklands.
Ned_Flanders
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didnt have an option? wonder why the league had that attitude given every club hated dealing with carlton at the time
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it could be something to do with the MCG and DOckland contracts requiring almost every victorian club game to be played at those facilities except for the ones at Kardinia Park.
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carlton was screwing clubs before docklands was even a dream
i remember in the 90's officials at richmond saying it was financially the worst ground for us to play at, and pretty much every other club who went through the joint had a similar view
this isnt a carlton bash - its an elliott one - he just saw oppo clubs as a resource to * over
Like most historical recounts from different sources, it's a bit of everything mashed together.
Carlton raped the clubs who played there, it was the largest ground still active near the CBD excluding the MCG. Waverley wasn't any competition to it, especially with clubs such as footscray who needed a smaller ground close to their base. I am sure one of the reasons why North trialled Friday Night games at the MCG was a means of moving away from princess park. 2pm Saturday was reserved for Melboune, Richmond or maybe Collingwood.
There was some conflict of interest between Carlton and the new Docklands stadium. Essendon was signed to be the "head" tenant. They got the best deal, similar to the deal signed with Melbourne Victory. This ensured year round high crowds at the ground. Carlton also got a good deal, because one of their board members was also on the board for the new stadium. Might've been Elliot, but my memory is hazy on the details here.
What I do know is that Docklands Stadium had a financial incentive to take games away from Princess Park, otherwise it wouldn't have survived. Carlton could've reduced their prices to be competitive with Docklands, but due to the above mentioned conflict of interest didn't. They remained stubborn and all games were eventually siphoned away.
It's the prime spot for a boutique stadium. I know this isn't the forum for it, but there is a proposed 2nd metro line that will stop at parkville and continue to clifton hill. Putting a station near princess park, even if it's further to the east towards fitzroy, would help the case to make it happen. That, or you could re-route the upfield line to go North Melbourne - Hospital Precinct/Parkville - Princess Park - Jewell.
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good post
for moving forward, it wont happen. melbourne doesnt need a third major stadium. the only way it occurs is if Docklands is scrapped
I disagree. A 3rd stadium for Dogs/Saints/North would be ideal, none of those clubs need a stadium larger than 30 to 35k. Unfair to GWS, Suns and Freo, but imagine if clubs could move low drawing games to a cheaper venue, allowing the MCG to host more VIC derbies that will fill the venue. Need to right size the capacity so that fans don't miss out, and simultaenously clubs don't go bankrupt (the breakeven crowd at Docklands is about 30,000 bums on seats, if you draw less you lose money, you have to pay MSL money per seat not filled).
All proposals for this line have a station in either Fitzroy or Fitzroy North, both of which are an even longer walk from Princes Park than Jewell, let alone Royal Park. Going to Princes Park between Parkville and Clifton is pretty far out of the way and the people of Fitzroy would probably revolt.
The curve required to make North Melbourne to Parkville happen would be ridiculously large, assuming it connects to Southern Cross. It's practically a right angle, which is very difficult for trains to traverse. Re-routing would be a lot simpler if it eliminated North Melbourne from the Upfield line too, and people instead got there by changing at Parkville (for Arden station) or Flinders St.
On the subject of re-routing, it'd give people further up the line a quicker commute, but I can't see anyone who uses Flemington Bridge or Macaulay regularly being too happy about losing their station. Still, that can probably be worked around if you boost the tram capacity in those areas. I think this would be the best solution, provided the politicians could be brought onside.
North Melbourne to Parkville, I agree wouldn't happen. A station around royal children's hospital would be more of a straight line and direct.
As for Flemington Bridge and Macaulay, they're both within walking distance of Newmarket and Kensington respectively, and near tram lines. There isn't a great loss of PT coverage for locals. The other issue is the level crossings at Macaulay which will be difficult to remove due to the creek and Citylink. That's another reason why a diversion from North Melbourne to Jewell would be a good idea.
That's a decent idea also, and would help with getting it past politicians and the electorate. Everyone in politics likes the optics of spending money on healthcare and children, just as they like the optics of spending money on women's sport, which is what's getting Princes Park its upgrades.
Thats true, I just think you'd need more trams to compensate for their loss, and perhaps another tram corridor. Dryburgh/Macaulay/Boundary Roads perhaps.
There was talks of sending one of the swanston st trams via william st (to double frequency with the 58), then continue north alongside the 19 to at least Brunswick train station, probably Coburg. Requires about 100m of new track at the Haymarket roundabout.
I agree, the inner west especially could do with some more tram routes into the city.
