Revamp for National Cup

[mighty tiges]

Revamp for national cup

Caroline Wilson
The Age
June 26, 2012

THE AFL will radically redesign next year's Foxtel Cup with the national second-tier competition under fire from Victorian clubs and struggling for relevance among Fox Footy Channel's crowded Saturday line-up.

While the AFL has resisted pushes to abandon the competition - it has a contract with Foxtel for second-tier content for the remainder of the broadcast deal - the cup could be moved to a Tuesday night prime-time spot next season on Fox Footy.

AFL executive Simon Lethlean said the Foxtel Cup could also be halved with the 16-team competition cut to eight teams.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/revamp-for-national-cup-20120625-20yje.html#ixzz1yp7gD1P6

 

[mighty tiges]

No doubt there needs to be a change but it would be disappointing if the comp. was reduced to just 8 teams. It would deprive mostly the top NEAFL sides of testing themselves against the more traditional states' clubs. Morningside for instance wouldn't have qualified in an 8 team Foxtel Cup and they are now in the semis after being Port Adelaide. Neither would it prevent heavily one-sided clashes given Claremont flogged West Adelaide by 101 points this year. Moving games to the morning this year is what has hurt the Foxtel Cup. People don't have the habit of watching footy at any level at 10am or 11am.

I'm not sure how playing Tuesday night solves the BYE problem. No way can modern professional footballers play midweek games after a normal weekend league match anymore. They spend 2-3 days after a match just recovering from soreness and preparing their bodies so they are right to go the following weekend. It's not the old semi-pro Escort Cup days anymore. If the AFL means instead showing the Saturday games on tv on Tuesday nights that would struggle to attract an significant audience as well. People want live footy. You also still will have the BYE issue.

The other issue is the lack of a crowd. Playing so-called curtainraisers at AFL venues sometimes 6 or 7 hours beforehand just makes for a total lack of atmosphere and it doesn't help showing games on tv played in big empty stadiums. If they are now willing to make all Foxtel Cup games stand alone then they should also allow teams to play at their smaller home grounds so home club fans can at least go and tv viewers can hear some cheering and booing rather than crickets.

 

[The_Reaper]

N

I'm not sure how playing Tuesday night solves the BYE problem. No way can modern professional footballers play midweek games after a normal weekend league match anymore. They spend 2-3 days after a match just recovering from soreness and preparing their bodies so they are right to go the following weekend. It's not the old semi-pro Escort Cup days anymore. If the AFL means instead showing the Saturday games on tv on Tuesday nights that would struggle to attract an significant audience as well. People want live footy. You also still will have the BYE issue.

The other issue is the lack of a crowd. Playing so-called curtainraisers at AFL venues sometimes 6 or 7 hours beforehand just makes for a total lack of atmosphere and it doesn't help showing games on tv played in big empty stadiums. If they are now willing to make all Foxtel Cup games stand alone then they should also allow teams to play at their smaller home grounds so home club fans can at least go and tv viewers can hear some cheering and booing rather than crickets.

All three of the major leagues have byes anyway so there isn't really a problem with playing on tuesday.

I do agree that matches should be played at the Suburban grounds.

 

[brucetiki]

The only issue with playing at suburban grounds would be the TV set-up. While the ABC manages to do this well for the SANFL/WAFL/VFL, remember the problems Fox had doing a NAB Cup match from Eureka Stadium.

 

[mighty tiges]

Looks like the Thursday night Grand Final is a sign of things to come for the Foxtel Cup next year. Play the matches Thursday night most likely following the AFL team changes announcement to give to the comp. some prime time exposure rather than being hidden away on a Saturday morning as the comp. was this year. A better time and day to attract Pay TV viewers although the games will still suffer crowd wise at that time.

 

[The_Sherrin]

With Sydney Swans Reserves and Brisbane Lions Reserves both making Grand Finals for their respected conferences, are the 2 AFL clubs eligible for the Foxtel Cup?

The problem is the VFL,SANFL and WAFL having AFL registered players on their lists, in the case of the NEAFL they don't. Morningside made the Semis with no (0) AFL registered players on the clubs list. It doesn't seem fair that the NEAFL is the poorer cousins to the VFL,SANFL and WAFL in general, then has to play the Foxtel cup against A VFL club that has upto 6 AFL players on the VFL team. Take the 6 AFL players off the VFL club and give them to the NEAFL club and watch the comp even up! The NEAFL is already at a disadvantage , so then why make it even more of a disadvantage? It doesn't make sense!

 

[royaldave]

While they could perhaps exclude AFL players to create a "fairer" playing field it would not help the tv ratings so don't expect that to happen.

I don't know if there's any ruling in place for AFL reserves sides, but given the way the lions etc have their "top up" players supplied it may not be practical for the NEAFL AFL reserves sides to compete in the foxtel cup so they may just opt out anyway.

As for the WAFL and SANFL there's a lot of movement afoot by the eagles, crows etc to get their own reserves sides together, so who know what the future holds..

 

[kid_a]

The AFL really need to tweak this comp to make it easier for fans to follow and relevant for the competing clubs' communities.
I think the 4 premiers (or as close to as possible, because of not allowing AFL clubs to compete) of the VFL,SANFL,WAFL and NEAFL all go straight through to the 2nd round.
The other 8 teams to qualify enter in the 1st round.
The four first round winners then advance to the 2nd round where from there until the final its staright knockout.
In rounds 1 and 2 the club who had finished higher in their respective leagues should host the game, whilst in the semi finals and final the team(s) which have a higher percentage (from their previous foxtel cup games) earn the right to play hosts.
Games to be played on Thursday Nights.
With the possibility of the final being played as a stand alone game on a sunday afternoon in early august, the AFL to have a split round at about this time thus leaving a sunday free of AFL football when the Foxtel Cup final will be played.
Somewhat of a gap between the rounds to allow clubs to adjust other fixtures.
As many matches as possible to be played (as close as possible) at competing clubs home grounds.
So using last year state league results, this season competition would look like this:

1st Round-
Match 1: Burnie (TSL 1st) v NT Thunder (NEAFL NC 2nd). Thursday May 2, 7.45pm (local)
Match 2: East Fremantle (WAFL 2nd) v North Adelaide (SANFL 3rd). Thursday May 9, 7.15pm local/8.45pm (SA)
Match 3: Werribee (VFL 3rd) v Swan Districts (WAFL 3rd). Thursday May 16, 7.45pm (local)
Match 4: West Adelaide (SANFL 2nd) v Williamstown (VFL 4th). Thursday May 23, 7.45pm (local)/8.15 (EST)

2nd Round-
Match 5: Port Melbourne (VFL 2nd) v winner match 1. Thursday Jun 6, 7.45pm (local)
Match 6: Queanbeyan (NEAFL 2nd) v winner match 2. Thursday June 13, 7.45pm (local)
Match 7: Norwood (SANFL 1st) v winner match 3. Thursday June 20, 7.45pm (local)/8.15pm (EST)
Match 8: Claremont (WAFL 1st) v winner match 4. Thursday June 27, 7.15pm (local)/9.15pm (EST)

Semi Finals-
Match 9: winner match 5 v winner match 6. Thursday July 4, 7.45pm (local)
Match 10: winner match 7 v winner match 8. Thursday July 11, 7.45pm (local)

Final-
Match 11: winner match 9 v winner match 10. Sunday August 4, 3pm (EST)

Total clubs from each league-
VFL- 3
SANFL- 3
WAFL- 3
NEAFL- 2
TSL- 1
I think with the format the comp would gain so much more exposure and interest, and clubs would be more inclined to really try and succeed in it.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Due to the naming of teams, there is already plenty of footy programming for Thursday nights.
I was surprised they went to Tuesday nights given the additional costs, but it is about as much a "dead night" for footy as you can get.
Monday night has review programs, MRP, etc. Thursday team selections and the like. That really leaves Tuesday and Wednesday needing the filler which, unfortunately, is about all this cup is seen as.

 

[kid_a]

yeah just used thursdays as an example, for reasons mentioned just above wednesdays could be more viable.

 

[The_Wookie]

With Sydney Swans Reserves and Brisbane Lions Reserves both making Grand Finals for their respected conferences, are the 2 AFL clubs eligible for the Foxtel Cup?

The problem is the VFL,SANFL and WAFL having AFL registered players on their lists, in the case of the NEAFL they don't. Morningside made the Semis with no (0) AFL registered players on the clubs list. It doesn't seem fair that the NEAFL is the poorer cousins to the VFL,SANFL and WAFL in general, then has to play the Foxtel cup against A VFL club that has upto 6 AFL players on the VFL team. Take the 6 AFL players off the VFL club and give them to the NEAFL club and watch the comp even up! The NEAFL is already at a disadvantage , so then why make it even more of a disadvantage? It doesn't make sense!

couldnt agree more. AFl listed players have their chance in the sun with the AFL, the foxtel cup is supposed to be about the next level.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

Unfortunately, even a return to the old Champions of Australia series format in the 1960s and 1970s would not help bring back the Foxtel Cup competition.

The CoA series involved the VFL, SANFL and WANFL premiers as well as the winner of the Tasmanian state premiership in the first weekend in October.

There were two double headers staged over a weekend with the winners on Saturday playing off in the final on the Sunday plus a consolation playoff as a curtain-raiser.

Even this format would need a lot of financial backing to bring to fruition to cover airfares, accommodation and other costs.

 

[glengowan]

SANFL 10 teams, 18 Game Home & Away Season
WAFL 10 teams, 18 Game Home & Away Season
Split the VFL in to 2 x 11 team conferences, 22 Game Home & Away Season

A: Coburg, Frankston, Sandringham, Box Hill, Casey, St Kilda, North Melbourne, Richmond, Brisbane, Gold Coast & Southport
B: Williamstown, Port Melbourne, Werribee, Geelong, Essendon, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne, Carlton, Collingwood, Sydney, GWS, Tasmania

Begin the VFL season 2 weeks earlier than SANFL and WAFL and have everyone play each other once by mid-May (VFL 11 Rounds & SANFL/WAFL 9 Rounds).

The top 4 of the SANFL, VFL, VFL A and VFL B participate in a 4 week, 16 team knockout competition during May/June to determine a Champion. The State League competitions have a mid-season break. Teams not participating can organise practice matches etc if they choose.

The second part of the season (which includes a weekend early July for a WA vs SA State Game) plays out and SANFL, WAFL and VFL Premier determined.

 

[rdrdrdrd]

SANFL 10 teams, 18 Game Home & Away Season
WAFL 10 teams, 18 Game Home & Away Season
Split the VFL in to 2 x 11 team conferences, 22 Game Home & Away Season

A: Coburg, Frankston, Sandringham, Box Hill, Casey, St Kilda, North Melbourne, Richmond, Brisbane, Gold Coast & Southport
B: Williamstown, Port Melbourne, Werribee, Geelong, Essendon, Western Bulldogs, North Melbourne, Carlton, Collingwood, Sydney, GWS, Tasmania

Begin the VFL season 2 weeks earlier than SANFL and WAFL and have everyone play each other once by mid-May (VFL 11 Rounds & SANFL/WAFL 9 Rounds).

The top 4 of the SANFL, VFL, VFL A and VFL B participate in a 4 week, 16 team knockout competition during May/June to determine a Champion. The State League competitions have a mid-season break. Teams not participating can organise practice matches etc if they choose.

The second part of the season (which includes a weekend early July for a WA vs SA State Game) plays out and SANFL, WAFL and VFL Premier determined.

Whilst a Foxtel Cup style competition will sadly never return, I wouldn't mind the annual SANFL/WAFL state game replaced by the following format to decide which state wins the Haydn Bunton Cup:


Exclude Adelaide and Port Adelaide Reserves from this exercise as well as Peel Thunder and West Coast WAFL teams.

That leaves 8 traditional teams from each comp.

The Saturday before the minor round of a new season commences – get the 16 teams to play each other with the matches decided by the previous season’s rankings.

The 2 reigning premiers could play in Adelaide and the two runners up could play each other in Perth.

The Adelaide games could be 1v1, 3v3, 5v5 and 7v7 while Perth has 2v2, 4v4, 6v6 and 8v8 with the games played at the home grounds - e.g. Sturt would play South Fremantle at Unley Oval and East Perth would play Glenelg at East Perth's home ground and so on for the 8 games.

Whichever state wins the most games gets the Cup. If the final result was 4 wins each, then % would decide the winner.

In essence all players involved in these games are representing their states.

No need for a SANFL/WAFL state game then during the season – clubs and players would be free to fully focus on their main mission which is to win a premiership flag for their club.

My friends and I have discussed who would win the Cup.

We think the SANFL 1-3 teams would defeat the WAFL 1-3 but not very confident that SANFL 6-8 (South, North and West Adelaide) would beat the WAFL 6-8 (West Perth, Swan Districts and Subiaco).

So, it would be the middle order teams that decide who wins and then that winner could state “Based on the results of 8 games, we are the stronger competition”

Would be an interesting exercise!

​

 

[glengowan]

Whilst a Foxtel Cup style competition will sadly never return, I wouldn't mind the annual SANFL/WAFL state game replaced by the following format to decide which state wins the Haydn Bunton Cup:


Exclude Adelaide and Port Adelaide Reserves from this exercise as well as Peel Thunder and West Coast WAFL teams.

That leaves 8 traditional teams from each comp.

The Saturday before the minor round of a new season commences – get the 16 teams to play each other with the matches decided by the previous season’s rankings.

The 2 reigning premiers could play in Adelaide and the two runners up could play each other in Perth.

The Adelaide games could be 1v1, 3v3, 5v5 and 7v7 while Perth has 2v2, 4v4, 6v6 and 8v8 with the games played at the home grounds - e.g. Sturt would play South Fremantle at Unley Oval and East Perth would play Glenelg at East Perth's home ground and so on for the 8 games.

Whichever state wins the most games gets the Cup. If the final result was 4 wins each, then % would decide the winner.

In essence all players involved in these games are representing their states.

No need for a SANFL/WAFL state game then during the season – clubs and players would be free to fully focus on their main mission which is to win a premiership flag for their club.

My friends and I have discussed who would win the Cup.

We think the SANFL 1-3 teams would defeat the WAFL 1-3 but not very confident that SANFL 6-8 (South, North and West Adelaide) would beat the WAFL 6-8 (West Perth, Swan Districts and Subiaco).

So, it would be the middle order teams that decide who wins and then that winner could state “Based on the results of 8 games, we are the stronger competition”

Would be an interesting exercise!

​

Love this idea!

 

[rdrdrdrd]

Love this idea!

All this comp needs is a sponsor which at the moment appears to be tonight's $80 Million Powerball lol !!

 

[rdrdrdrd]

Powerball responded last night with $13 - so this comp remains a thought bubble unless I can convince the SA and WA Labor premiers to form a Tourism SA and WA agreement of some sort with lots of $!