Riewoldt or Franklin?

[T4P]

With all the comparisons between Richmond's and Hawthorn's picks. What about this one?
Where was Buddy at Riewoldt's age?
Who has higher value?
Who has more influence on a game?
Who has more positive influence on a game?
Who will be the better goalkicker?

You can't really select a better player - they are two different players (not hypocritical as value is different to better). Jack Riewoldt is a FF, Buddy is a CHF. It's like how you can't compare Nick and Jack - same reason.

Buddy definitely has the more influence - he can win games, but he can also lose them.

On an unrelated note, what's the most amount of goals Buddy has kicked?

 

[theyellowsash]

at ff jack, much better contested mark which means he has the ability to take it on the lead or close to goals, which franklin doesnt have. chf franklin because of his superior athetic mobility. not a knock on jack but that mobility is the reason buddy is so good, because we know he is an average mark and kick.

 

[mcuzzy]

buddy was in a top 4 side
riewoldt is in a wooden spoon side

 

[Spluff]

Buddy's not a CHF. He gets sucked up the ground by poor coaching where he doesn't have as much impact, but that doesn't make him a CHF. He still does his best work i50 with space around him.

 

[Bazzar]

If we were to draft Buddy back then over Tambo or Jack when we did, well im going to say Tambo/Jack by a mile. Now before im shot down, the reason to me is simple, Buddy would have had a more immediate impact on the team’s results and inflated Wallace’s record and worth. He probably would have had a 2 year extension, and some of the 14 players from last years cull would be playing this Saturday.

With a player like Buddy, we would be more likely to be in that 9-13 ladder position, and missed Cotch and Martin, so in the long run, we are probably better off the way it has panned out.

 

[TigerTime88]

I subscribe to that way of thinking...good call

 

[bouncing back]

franklin is a superstar. love jack, but don't think he has the talent of franklin.

 

[Johnny_Segment]

With all the comparisons between Richmond's and Hawthorn's picks. What about this one?
Where was Buddy at Riewoldt's age?

To answer some of your questions;

Riewoldt aged 21y 225d
58 Games
102 Goals. 1.8 Goals per Game
11.3 Disposals per game
5.3 Marks per game

Franklin aged 21y 219d
79 Games
235 goals. 2.9 Goals per Game
13 Disposals per Game
5 Marks per Game

There is a bit of a discrepancy between games played until the same age, so if you go by Franklins first 58 games;

58 Games
135 Goals
12 Disposals per Game
4.5 Marks per Game

It must be noted however that whilst Franklins first 2 seasons were in bottom 4 sides like Jack has had to play in, his 3rd season Hawthorn finished 6th.

 

[docko911]

it's too early to tell. Franklin had a massive 4th year of his career but then sunk back into being just a good player the last couple of years. He has awesome attributes but just does too many stupid things. Riewoldt is having an awesome 4th year as well, the question is whether he can maintain it this year and for years to come.

I'd say they are pretty even in terms of attributes:
-Franklin is gifted physically
-Riewoldt is gifted technically
-Both have suspect kicking at times

I'd say Franklin is ahead atm but should be given he has played 2 more years then jack.

 

[Bazzar]

Its hard to do comparisons as Buddy has played twice as many games, so I had a look at their basic career high stats and it’s interesting.

Jack - Buddy

19 Disposal 24
16 kicks 19
7 hand ball 13
14 marks 12
10 goals 9
7 tackles 6

Jack is way up their considering he has played 58 to Buddys 110​

 

[Samuri Pizza Cat]

Common guys just relax. why do we have to start comparing anyone. Lets just worry about how our boys are going.

Beacuse we all know we are just inviting others to get stuck into us as soon as we f somethibng up. We are the easiest target.

 

[Bazzar]

Common guys just relax. why do we have to start comparing anyone. Lets just worry about how our boys are going.

To be honest, it was Dimma who started it by making the comparison.

 

[Jisha]

They are both good. Asking this question on the tigers board will just make one eyed tiger fans look stupid.

 

[tugga]

They are both good. Asking this question on the tigers board will just make one eyed tiger fans look stupid.

Agree.
Different types of players anyway.
Franklin is an athletic freak who can swoop the ball off the carpet like a rover. Jack is a terrific contested mark.

 

[blues4000]

Buddy's not a CHF. He gets sucked up the ground by poor coaching where he doesn't have as much impact, but that doesn't make him a CHF. He still does his best work i50 with space around him.

I like jumping jack
at his age in an under performing team he has already kicked 10 straight
franklins super and prob better overall, but riewoldt is a better forward.

 

[blues4000]

Common guys just relax. why do we have to start comparing anyone. Lets just worry about how our boys are going.

Beacuse we all know we are just inviting others to get stuck into us as soon as we f somethibng up. We are the easiest target.

whoa ease up
Jack riewoldt is a star in the making
NO body can dare try take that away from u guys and i mean nobody.

 

[SA TIGER]

Now that we're on a roll, does anyone have comparabe stats between Jack and cuz Nick?

 

[blues4000]

buddy was in a top 4 side
riewoldt is in a wooden spoon side

Thats exactly right

can hawk fans argue or even u tiger fans that buddy really would have made such a difference to u guys.
Given the fact that everybody was all excited and chaotic about cousins com,ing to u guys and then waht no finals.
judd comes to carlton and they all get all miffed up we are back and all.
so why would buddy be any different to jack riewoldt?
Dont forget the hawks had roughhead to assist franklin, and players like lewis, mitchell and the chief in hodge, not to mention great runners like bateman.
well they werent a one man show thats for sure.
I think jack will be pivotal and chase down franklins mantle.
should be close, franklins mobilti will be the key factor.
But what makes this interesting is riewoldt is a strong contested mark, and at 21 has hit the lead for the coleman race, not to mention has kicked 10 goals alreay, something franklin hasnt yet.
Imagine if jack was in a top 4 side?????
anyone????
Great to see richmond get some big wins on the board and shutr the media up about the wooden spoon and whether u can win a game.
ur average margin is solid.

 

[blues4000]

Now that we're on a roll, does anyone have comparabe stats between Jack and cuz Nick?

looool

ooooh thats a good one mate.
jack might pass nick, but shit thats a big call, they are both riewoltds and its in the genes.
jack prob close just.
But that nick can play anywhere and has a great endurance level.
I been wanting to start a thread like that, because i dont reckon it will become bitter.
I rememebr working at zagames in 2005 after the saints lost the swans in prelim final, and rodney eade was there saying how the dogs would be interesting in lloking at a jack riewoldt who was like his cousin terms of talent, and might surpass him one day but just.
U guys have a superstar and a gem.
I wreckon he will kick a hundred in the next year, he might even come close this year.
Maybe 80 goals

 

[roosaints]

Dont forget the hawks had roughhead to assist franklin, and players like lewis, mitchell and the chief in hodge, not to mention great runners like bateman.
well they werent a one man show thats for sure.
I think jack will be pivotal and chase down franklins mantle.
should be close, franklins mobilti will be the key factor.
But what makes this interesting is riewoldt is a strong contested mark, and at 21 has hit the lead for the coleman race, not to mention has kicked 10 goals alreay, something franklin hasnt yet.
Imagine if jack was in a top 4 side?????
anyone????

If Riewoldt was in a stronger side, the ball wouldn't go to him every single time. Richmond have gone to him 9 times more than any other player. Did Fev kick more goals when you finally made the finals last year? Is he kicking more goals at Brisbane with Jono Brown to help him then he did in a wooden spoon Carlton side?

In terms of just kicking goals, a forward is often better placed in a weak side as they will be played deep and used on every occassion. In stronger sides, they play up the ground more (Nick Riewoldt, Brown, Franklin) so as to prevent them becoming one-dimensional.

If Jack was in a stronger side, opposition defences would also be on high alert to the fact that he's a dominant forward and triple team him. He was left one out agains the Eagles and simply dominated. Against St Kilda we didn't feel the need to drop Goddard in front of him as we were always going to win anyway. If Barry Hall cuts loose against us or even Podsiadly this weekend, you can be sure Goddard will find himself in the hole for safe measure.

The view that a full forward will automatically kick more goals in a stronger side is flawed.

I think you'll find that as Riewoldt gets older and Richmond improve, he'll find himself pushing further up the ground to prevent himself being triple teamed and to ensure the forward line is multi dimensional.

 

[T4P]

Interesting call Bazzar. And it also means it's basically Buddy against Tambling + Riewoldt as Thorp is no longer in the AFL.

There's no doubt that at the moment Buddy is the better player and it's too early to tell, just interested in people's opinions about it all at this point.

I'm more worried that we wont kick it to anyone else now....

 

[Simmonds2Hislop]

Please don't start this bottom side/top side shit on our board. Please.


And have a read of this. I'm not the only that agrees about multiple targets causing a decrease in goals.

If Riewoldt was in a stronger side, the ball wouldn't go to him every single time. Richmond have gone to him 9 times more than any other player. Did Fev kick more goals when you finally made the finals last year? Is he kicking more goals at Brisbane with Jono Brown to help him then he did in a wooden spoon Carlton side?

In terms of just kicking goals, a forward is often better placed in a weak side as they will be played deep and used on every occassion. In stronger sides, they play up the ground more (Nick Riewoldt, Brown, Franklin) so as to prevent them becoming one-dimensional.

If Jack was in a stronger side, opposition defences would also be on high alert to the fact that he's a dominant forward and triple team him. He was left one out agains the Eagles and simply dominated. Against St Kilda we didn't feel the need to drop Goddard in front of him as we were always going to win anyway. If Barry Hall cuts loose against us or even Podsiadly this weekend, you can be sure Goddard will find himself in the hole for safe measure.

The view that a full forward will automatically kick more goals in a stronger side is flawed.

I think you'll find that as Riewoldt gets older and Richmond improve, he'll find himself pushing further up the ground to prevent himself being triple teamed and to ensure the forward line is multi dimensional.

Although I don't agree with that second bolded line. Why would you not try to stop our only good forward?

Why bother tagging any of our guys if you were going to win anyway? Why bother even showing up?

 

[T4P]

buddy was in a top 4 side
riewoldt is in a wooden spoon side

I lol'd

 

[cotcha now]

If Riewoldt was in a stronger side, the ball wouldn't go to him every single time. Richmond have gone to him 9 times more than any other player. Did Fev kick more goals when you finally made the finals last year? Is he kicking more goals at Brisbane with Jono Brown to help him then he did in a wooden spoon Carlton side?

In terms of just kicking goals, a forward is often better placed in a weak side as they will be played deep and used on every occassion. In stronger sides, they play up the ground more (Nick Riewoldt, Brown, Franklin) so as to prevent them becoming one-dimensional.

If Jack was in a stronger side, opposition defences would also be on high alert to the fact that he's a dominant forward and triple team him. He was left one out agains the Eagles and simply dominated. Against St Kilda we didn't feel the need to drop Goddard in front of him as we were always going to win anyway. If Barry Hall cuts loose against us or even Podsiadly this weekend, you can be sure Goddard will find himself in the hole for safe measure.

The view that a full forward will automatically kick more goals in a stronger side is flawed.

I think you'll find that as Riewoldt gets older and Richmond improve, he'll find himself pushing further up the ground to prevent himself being triple teamed and to ensure the forward line is multi dimensional.

u need to watch the game again, saints had goodard as a lose man down back and cut off many kicks towards him.also didnt u notice wce dropping dean cox in front of riewoldt on everal ocassions?

 

[carn tigez]

If Riewoldt was in a stronger side, the ball wouldn't go to him every single time. Richmond have gone to him 9 times more than any other player. Did Fev kick more goals when you finally made the finals last year? Is he kicking more goals at Brisbane with Jono Brown to help him then he did in a wooden spoon Carlton side?

In terms of just kicking goals, a forward is often better placed in a weak side as they will be played deep and used on every occassion. In stronger sides, they play up the ground more (Nick Riewoldt, Brown, Franklin) so as to prevent them becoming one-dimensional.

If Jack was in a stronger side, opposition defences would also be on high alert to the fact that he's a dominant forward and triple team him. He was left one out agains the Eagles and simply dominated. Against St Kilda we didn't feel the need to drop Goddard in front of him as we were always going to win anyway. If Barry Hall cuts loose against us or even Podsiadly this weekend, you can be sure Goddard will find himself in the hole for safe measure.

The view that a full forward will automatically kick more goals in a stronger side is flawed.

I think you'll find that as Riewoldt gets older and Richmond improve, he'll find himself pushing further up the ground to prevent himself being triple teamed and to ensure the forward line is multi dimensional.

To be fair, Riewoldt was double and triple teamed by the Eagles when they could, but we moved the ball very quickly on the counter and they were unable to get back on most occassions. Not only this, but sometimes we were forced to bomb it in to the hot spot, and obviously you would go to Jack in those situations because he has a huge leap and great hands, and is very good once it hits the ground, so there would be no reason not to go to him.

As a passionate Tiges fan for the last 10 or so years I've seen us go to Richo when it was stupid and he had no chance, but so far I haven't seen us do that with Jack. When he was out of position and not one out, we kicked it to others or held on to it until there was a better option. This may change, but so far there has been no reason for us not to kick it to him so often.