Robert Shirley

[relapse]

No he's not a taggers a ...h...e ....and receives no recognition via the media or footy scribes to contradict that view.

IMO though he's had a pretty good season .....bloody awful PS but has come back and played some good games and been a bit more offensive this season that previously.

Our midfield to be brutally truthful is not gelling .....so we have to look at that midfield mix critically if we are to progress against the rest of the competition.

Reilly and Thompson are excellent midfielders out wide and in space ......but what we lack is that P. Burgoyne type ....a player that can operate in tight and with that very important attribute of sidestepping ....this is how Burgoyne gets thru traffic and then uses his acceleration to break into space and puts pressure on the opposition.

We use to have Macleod who was just the "best" thru traffic ......but since his removal to the HBF we just don't have someone with those attributes .....certainly Thompson, Reilly and Van Berlo don't posses this skill.

Douglas ..... a possibility???

But as good a season as Shirley has had ......I do think his spot will come under much scrutiny at the post season coaches review.

After seeing Port V WCE live I think Port are using P Burgoyne in a role not to disimilar to the one that we are using for McLeod.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

After seeing Port V WCE live I think Port are using P Burgoyne in a role not to disimilar to the one that we are using for McLeod.

No doubt & he is doing a good job of it (the Burgoynes have effectively swapped roles from a year or so back).

We must get better at creating passages of play forward through our better ball users - ie. Macca & Reilly. No doubt it gives the forwards more confidence when they know they are likely to be on the end of a good pass.

 

[bus24]

9 Sam Fisher
8 Justin Koschitzke
6 Nick Riewoldt
3 Lenny Hayes
2 Robert Shirley
2 Andrew McLeod

 

[Crow Envy]

9 Sam Fisher
8 Justin Koschitzke
6 Nick Riewoldt
3 Lenny Hayes
2 Robert Shirley
2 Andrew McLeod

Seriously how could Shirley get 2 votes and Harvey none? I think Neil was looking for a Crow player to give some points to.

 

[Phhht]

didn't get to see the game last Friday night but was wondering who played on McLeod? Was he loose man in defence or did the saints man him up? From what I have heard Macca was loose for the Crows and Sam Fisher loose for the Saints? is that how it worked out. If it was, seems Fisher was rated as extremely effective by both coaches going by the ratings listed above.

 

[smoovy]

didn't get to see the game last Friday night but was wondering who played on McLeod? Was he loose man in defence or did the saints man him up? From what I have heard Macca was loose for the Crows and Sam Fisher loose for the Saints? is that how it worked out. If it was, seems Fisher was rated as extremely effective by both coaches going by the ratings listed above.

They both never had opponents from what I saw on TV and heard on radio.

I wouldn't have said that Sam Fisher was that much better than Mcleod.

I find both their games extremely hard to judge when they don't have an opponen? To be honest I would not have expected anything less from Mcleod. At least he did kick a goal...his first since last years prelim.

 

[Phhht]

They both never had opponents from what I saw on TV and heard on radio.

I wouldn't have said that Sam Fisher was that much better than Mcleod.

I find both their games extremely hard to judge when they don't have an opponen? To be honest I would not have expected anything less from Mcleod. At least he did kick a goal...his first since last years prelim.

Thanks for the feedback smoovy!

Been interested in how people (read as opposition coaches) handle young McLeod.

Is it me or are more and more opposition coaches willing to have a punt on who can be more effective? I know that they dont try and let Macca run completely free but it does seem strange that he doesn't seem to be copping the heavy tag that I thought he would.

I will probably get flamed but I have a feeling that his kicking isn't quite as effective as it was 3 or 4 years ago. Can't remember the last time he kicked some long goals that he used to be able to do previously. Even his general field kicking has been down compared to when he is at his peak.

Will be interested on other peoples thoughts as I dont really get to see him that often but it has been an impression that I have picked up that coaches back their players to be more effective than Macca as a loose man in defence.

 

[Phhht]

I go to all home games and I can count on one hand how many turn-overs I've seen from McLeod this year. Hell I can probably count them on a couple of fingers. Coaches are definitely backing their players to be more effective but I wouldn't say it's been a successful move.

Yeah I agree that his turnover count appears not that high, my impression only dont have stats.

Bit i don't mean that Macca is getting it and burning it.

When he gets it and delivers it - is it to the best option? I just get the impression that his possessions aren't as damaging. It stands out when Goodwin is fit and firing. His possies HURT the opposition so you often see a hard tag on him. Doesn't happen so much with Macca.

Of course as I said I only see parts of some games so its a bit unfair of me.

 

[smoovy]

Thanks for the feedback smoovy!

Been interested in how people (read as opposition coaches) handle young McLeod.

Is it me or are more and more opposition coaches willing to have a punt on who can be more effective? I know that they dont try and let Macca run completely free but it does seem strange that he doesn't seem to be copping the heavy tag that I thought he would.

I will probably get flamed but I have a feeling that his kicking isn't quite as effective as it was 3 or 4 years ago. Can't remember the last time he kicked some long goals that he used to be able to do previously. Even his general field kicking has been down compared to when he is at his peak.

Will be interested on other peoples thoughts as I dont really get to see him that often but it has been an impression that I have picked up that coaches back their players to be more effective than Macca as a loose man in defence.

I don't think his kicking has dropped off. It just has never been as good as some would have you believe. He is still however, one of our best kicks and rarely makes an error, but I never would have described his kicking as being exceptional, which is how I would describe Darren Jarman.

Back on how he is being used, and I've said it before, the fact he has only kicked 1 goal is and indictment on the AFC. He just needs to threaten forward of centre more, it is a waste of talent otherwise.

 

[Phhht]

I don't think his kicking has dropped off. It just has never been as good as some would have you believe. He is still however, one of our best kicks and rarely makes an error, but I never would have described his kicking as being exceptional, which is how I would describe Darren Jarman.

Back on how he is being used, and I've said it before, the fact he has only kicked 1 goal is and indictment on the AFC. He just needs to threaten forward of centre more, it is a waste of talent otherwise.

Spot on IMO!!! needs to be more damaging.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Advertiser - Essendon Game

ADELAIDE last night opted for run rather than more height as it named Norwood-based midfielder Bryce Campbell for this AFL debut along with North Adelaide-based forward Nick Gill in tomorrow's make-or-further-break clash with Essendon at Telstra Dome.

Campbell and Gill, both drafted last year, replace Robert Shirley - who will be the travelling emergency today - and the inexperienced Robert Douglas.

Campbell's selection ahead of Luke Jericho indicates coach Neil Craig is seeking to challenge Essendon in the midfield where the Crows need to win more contested ball.

For the second consecutive week Adelaide has to deal with a team charged to react to a coaching upheaval.

"It will have a positive impact on this season," Essendon champion James Hird said of Sheedy's

I think it has to be said .......particularly for a couple of well respected posters on this forum who have "tried" to kick me over my "prediction" for several players over the last 12- 18 months.

Not that I was saying they should immediately be dispensed with but that I saw these players as weak links who would ultimately make way for the next generation of players.

Who were these players on my list (just for review purposes) ........Skipworth, McGregor and Shirley.

Mcgregor I was told was on our list of untradables and I keep getting reminded of Shirleys B&F performance ....... and the fact Iam obviously bias and not objective when it came to my consistency of opinion on these players

I'll be surprised if Mcgregor has another season at the Crows and IMO having seen Campbell I think he is a better tagging option.
And on that I have to apologise to Drummond as I did say I thought there was nothing special about Campbell (but I say that for all taggers). Watching a few Norwood games though he is a good kick, tackles well and is much quicker on his feet that Shirley .....he also is a lot more attacking ...so well done on his first game today.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Sometimes people want to went anf just bitch for the sake of bitching without there actually being any reason to do so!

When ever we lose a game you have threads asking questions about players. Its the nature of the fickle supporters!!!!!

no reason Stiffy????

Shirley had a lot of Brownie points in the bank from his last couple of seasons and we needed his experience in the midfield when blooding so many youngsters ......so his demise is not based on one performance (that would be insulting) ....but over a period of time it has been coming

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Thought On The Fremantle Game

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Full Time Report:

McGregor ......Dead Man walking
Can't play up forward ...can't play up Back .......slow bigmen are dinasours!!!

Actually was a great game of footy with both teams continually coming back and then losing control of the game.

Just thought Freo always had more composure than us, tackled harder and got their goals a little too easy.

Please do not rubbish todays effort!! ....it was nip and tuck ....and if you want young players to be played then you have to expect this level of incosistency as they learn about the game ......so plaese DO NOT rubbish todays effort

Douglas: not physically up to it YET ......was really laboring at stages ...is not using his pace ands therefore really doesn't have a strong aspect to his game ATS which makes him anymore than a liability ......but Iam glad the club is "giving" him games albeit mainly from the bench.

The other thing Iam noticing is when he gets the ball his instinct AP is to give off rather than like last season ...take them on
Playing too conservative which says his self belief AP is wavering and he's not playing with the confidence his game needs to be successful.



Doughty: for those who have read my posts over a period of time I have really supported Doughty as a good backbone player.
Well he's still doing the job OK but but IMO he's now in the category that a young player who has more of an upside should replace him .........his life cycle as a Crows player is definately on the downside

Shirley: sorry Cro Mo ...I know he's either your brother or a REALLY close friend ....but Josh Carr showed why Freo gave up a first round pick for him as a tagger and why no club would think of trading for Shirley.

He's an average battler that provides some grunt but very little talent and today well from the couch I didn't notive him playing really so can't make too many comments on his game

Carr ...quick on his feet ...important in close spaces and that initial acceleration required to get to the ruck taps or the opposition player with the ball.
Tackles hard and sets up Freo's plays ....

We need more players with that side movement ...fleet of early foot speed for our midfield .....Shirley is always 10 mtrs behind.

Don't you love history

 

[Crow Envy]

I think it has to be said .......particularly for a couple of well respected posters on this forum who have "tried" to kick me over my "prediction" for several players over the last 12- 18 months.

Not that I was saying they should immediately be dispensed with but that I saw these players as weak links who would ultimately make way for the next generation of players.

Who were these players on my list (just for review purposes) ........Skipworth, McGregor and Shirley.

Mcgregor I was told was on our list of untradables and I keep getting reminded of Shirleys B&F performance ....... and the fact Iam obviously bias and not objective when it came to my consistency of opinion on these players

I'll be surprised if Mcgregor has another season at the Crows and IMO having seen Campbell I think he is a better tagging option.
And on that I have to apologise to Drummond as I did say I thought there was nothing special about Campbell (but I say that for all taggers). Watching a few Norwood games though he is a good kick, tackles well and is much quicker on his feet that Shirley .....he also is a lot more attacking ...so well done on his first game today.

I mentioned during the preseason I didnt rate Shirley as a tagger and I ended up being compared to Crow Mos Brother in Law Must be a top bloke

 

[- PC -]

I see your shovelling dirt on Robs coffin already WW

I will go with the analysis that there is no-one to tag and an opportunity for Rob to get a rest

He will be back

Not that I was saying they should immediately be dispensed with but that I saw these players as weak links who would ultimately make way for the next generation of players.

Yes a 24 and 22 yr old booting out a 27 yr old

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I see your shovelling dirt on Robs coffin already WW

I will go with the analysis that there is no-one to tag and an opportunity for Rob to get a rest

He will be back

Yes a 24 and 22 yr old booting out a 27 yr old

........now I have heard everything

 

[Mad Dog]

Shirley has had a shocker of a year......but he's had plenty of mates.

I agree with you on McGregor WW.......he was our tall Mr Fix it when there wasn't anyone else......and that reputation stood him in good stead for a while. It would be nice to see him recapture some mobility and contribute more over a longer period - but the last few weeks have shown us that defence is not an option for him anymore - so it's deep fwd marking target or it's nothing.

It will be interesting to see how today pans out - not so much with the result - but for Campbell's debut....Gill in the fwd line.....Craig's use of Stevens, Bock, McGregor....(ie has he learnt anything from last week).

 

[Crow Envy]

I see your shovelling dirt on Robs coffin already WW

I will go with the analysis that there is no-one to tag and an opportunity for Rob to get a rest

He will be back

Yes a 24 and 22 yr old booting out a 27 yr old

Shirleys a tagger? So who has he successfully tagged this year? Surely no one in the Freo match.

I am still staggered that people are happy to leave the team as is no matter how we are performing. The guys we are talking about replacing are average footballers who have served their purpose. How do you expect the team to improve, if we dont give other players a chance. What we should do is boycott the draft and trade week because our team is perfect as it is

 

[WheresGroomgone]

I get frustrated at the Crows not particularly Rob Shirley, although I sometimes wonder if is his job, when we constantly ignore opposition players. Be it Harvey or West or anyother player racking up possessions. How can a player like West [as good as he is] be allowed to get 40 possies many of them out in space uncontested? Why does Neil Craig often let this happen, in this day and age these older players should not be allowed to run unopposed and left to their own devices. If it is a tagging role then ,yes I think we are often lacking and it has led to our downfall in a number of games, we need to get better at it.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Shirley has had a shocker of a year......but he's had plenty of mates.

I agree with you on McGregor WW.......he was our tall Mr Fix it when there wasn't anyone else......and that reputation stood him in good stead for a while. It would be nice to see him recapture some mobility and contribute more over a longer period - but the last few weeks have shown us that defence is not an option for him anymore - so it's deep fwd marking target or it's nothing.

It will be interesting to see how today pans out - not so much with the result - but for Campbell's debut....Gill in the fwd line.....Craig's use of Stevens, Bock, McGregor....(ie has he learnt anything from last week).

I have to take my hat off to Campbell as I was really ho-hum about him but I think he's a realistic chance to make it.

Gill IMO is a "bandade" ......too unreliable as a forward with his disposals ....could be a good ruckrover with his athletisicm and marking around the ground .....that's probably his best chance to make it.

McGregor ......well I have always thought that having no leap and being a lumberer was going to catchup with him ..........to his credit he tries to leap but the emphasis is on try.

I like Tippett, and even Meesen has a better chance as a forward.
Then there's Maric and Griffin as forward options ....Kenny is realistically on the end of the chain and as soon as those otheres mature a bit then the game will be up ......and I think he knows it as well

 

[relapse]

I think it has to be said .......particularly for a couple of well respected posters on this forum who have "tried" to kick me over my "prediction" for several players over the last 12- 18 months.

Not that I was saying they should immediately be dispensed with but that I saw these players as weak links who would ultimately make way for the next generation of players.

Who were these players on my list (just for review purposes) ........Skipworth, McGregor and Shirley.

Mcgregor I was told was on our list of untradables and I keep getting reminded of Shirleys B&F performance ....... and the fact Iam obviously bias and not objective when it came to my consistency of opinion on these players

I'll be surprised if Mcgregor has another season at the Crows and IMO having seen Campbell I think he is a better tagging option.
And on that I have to apologise to Drummond as I did say I thought there was nothing special about Campbell (but I say that for all taggers). Watching a few Norwood games though he is a good kick, tackles well and is much quicker on his feet that Shirley .....he also is a lot more attacking ...so well done on his first game today.

Exactly and as soon as anyone brought up shirley it was a case of getting told we dont understand about football and that we couldnt understand his role etc.

At the end of the day Shirley, Doughty, McGregor and Perrie are in the age bracket where they are vulnerable as far as our list goes.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Shirleys a tagger? So who has he successfully tagged this year? Surely no one in the Freo match.

Shirley was a decent tagger, but it appears this year his role has changed from a hard tag to a soft tag/getting more of the ball himself. This doesn't suit him or us IMO, as there is usually a net loss from what we gain offensively from Shirley compared to the extra offensive action of his opponent. Either he reverts back to a hard tag, or there is no point in playing him.