List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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Some of the "I hate Ross because my BFF is not getting a game" stuns me.

Having watched the 'play the youth at all costs' scenario at Melbourne, Carlton and Brisbane (though not so intentional in their case) it should have shown us that getting belted week in week out does not "get experience into the youth" it just teaches them to loose. We have played 10 new players so far this year and we have only reached the halfway mark. Of those 10 only 2 can be said to be performing consistently (Hamling and B Hill). I think that RTB is going about the introduction of youth in a sensible manner. Yes he may have rung the changes (only 2 debutants though) after round 2 but we still had 4 players new to the purple in round's 1 and 2.

But perhaps some dam lies and statistics would not be out of place here. Time on ground for the new players (less than 50 matches)
  • Tucker - 59.7%
  • Balic - 65.3%
  • Logue - 66.9%
  • Ryan - 75.5%
  • Blakely - 75.8%
  • Grey - 76.4%
  • ...
The list is extensive. Of those with less than 50 games for the club who are under 24 only Hughes and Weller crack the 80% time on ground. You cannot have a team filled with players who can't run it out. It's a balancing act. Darcy might be the best ruck in the world but if you can only play one ruck you can't play someone who will not be on the ground for more than 60% of the time. Rucking these days requires large amounts of endurance and I am not convinced that Darcy is there yet.

I think that people also forget that McCarthy, Hamling and Kersten all have less than 50 games under their belt. Our team is very inexperienced and just avoiding getting belted week in week out is problematic for us. At the start of the season I said to myself that with 10 wins I would be very happy indeed and I would hope for 8 and above. At this stage I am looking like I'm going to be happy.

For mine RTB 6/10 so far this season. Hopefully 7/10 after BL.:p
 
Sack him. Every time we start to look good he tell the players to stop winning and go back to the old losing ways.

It is obvious he prefers to lose than let the guys enjoy a few wins.

And why does a rebuild have to take over a year? Shouldn't we be winning every game by now?

Where's my pitchfork???
 

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He doesn't play the kids..........sack him
He does play the kids.............sack him
He gets mediocre players to play above them selves ...........sack him.
He has us in the eight heading for the bye in a 4 year rebuild .............sack him

He gets us to our first GF appearance ...............sack him
players decide to stay and resign contracts because they like the way he coaches...............sack him.

The logic of BF is outstanding.;):D
 
My guess since its a 4 year re build, RtB is sectioning off the team, piece by piece. By next year Spurr Griff Etc will be replaced like Suban, dP, Dawson.

As someone else mentioned its only year 1 of a re build. Ross is doing it his way. If it all works out he is a genius. If not he leaves we get a new coach. The sun will still rise.

I have faith- dont have a choice
 
I find it funny that people think after a series of good wins punctuated by some attractive football that Ross would suddenly think, "nah * this, I want to go back to what we were doing last year". Maaaaybe, it's because we have almost half a first 22 worth of new and inexperienced players who have barely played together and at best we're going to be inconsistent. The confirmation bias in attributing a dip in form exclusively down to Ross and his inability to shift from the rolling maul is maddening.

Training watchers constantly say our emphasis is on quick ball movement from the back 50 through the corridor and at time this season we've succeeded in doing that to devastating effect (3rd quarters vs. Richmond and Melbourne, 1st against the Dogs). Unfortunately other times we've been sloppy with turnovers and poor structure ahead of the ball which has resulted in an infuriating inability to move forward. What's strange is that people are finding this inconsistency surprising?

The rest of the season and possibly even a significant portion of next year is going to be a bedding in process that will probably result in more defeats than wins and some similarly awful results at home and away. What we need to see are signs of tangible improvement and from round 2 onwards, I think it's fair to say it's been quite evident. I'll be more than happy to join the pitchfork brigade if the rebuilding process becomes stagnant and we play ugly, ineffective football week in, week out, but given Lyon has had us in the 8 in a total rebuild year where he has played a fair few of our recent draftees, he deserves much more of a chance than many of you are affording him.
 
E Shed said:
yeah thats the bit that scares me the most. He just grinds them down to the point they are paralysed with indecision.
He gets a buy in that allows mediocre players to punch above their weight but once it wears off the team is turgid and lethargic.
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Any coach that gets mediocre players to buy in and punch above their weight are gold. Sides have a majority of mediocre players and getting them to perform beyond their abilities is how premierships are won. I don't follow your logic .
 
Outshined said:
I'll be more than happy to join the pitchfork brigade if the rebuilding process becomes stagnant and we play ugly, ineffective football week in, week out.
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And where have you been recently?

Our football since midway through 2014, with the exception of the first half of 2015, has been mostly ugly, ineffective week in, week out punctuated with brief respites which eventually turn back into the kind of football displayed in the past two weeks. The players lose confidence and stop even trying to pretend they believe in the game plan. The body language of most Fremantle players on the field is overtly negative.

B Hill's weak tackling, Mundy's jogging around in circles, Mccarthy's attempted 70m bomb to an empty goal square and Hamling's arms outstretched asking 'what the hell is happening, why is no one supporting me?" speak volumes for how little respect the players have for what they are doing.
 
Might as well drop this here (if not mentioned, apologies if it has):
Ross Lyon has now surpassed Chris Connolly as Fremantle's longest serving coach in its history. He has now coached Freo for 130 games, surpassing Connolly's 129.
Ross has won 77 of those games, with a 59% winning record. Chris Connolly won 67 games whilst in charge.
 
T0ecutter said:
And where have you been recently?

Our football since midway through 2014, with the exception of the first half of 2015, has been mostly ugly, ineffective week in, week out punctuated with brief respites which eventually turn back into the kind of football displayed in the past two weeks. The players lose confidence and stop even trying to pretend they believe in the game plan. The body language of most Fremantle players on the field is overtly negative.

B Hill's weak tackling, Mundy's jogging around in circles, Mccarthy's attempted 70m bomb to an empty goal square and Hamling's arms outstretched asking 'what the hell is happening, why is no one supporting me?" speak volumes for how little respect the players have for what they are doing.
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You're trying to argue our footy in 2014/15 wasn't effective? What? Not pretty I'll pay, but not effective? Ok.

What a load of s**t. Brad Hill is as outside as it gets and has never been a renowned tackler but now every time he misses one it's in protest of Ross's dour gamplan? Mundy kicked 3 against Melbourne and the sealer against Richmond as a roaming half-forward (call me crazy, but I'm guessing RL put him there), but yes his positioning in one game is clearly much more indicative of a squad that hates their coach.

Criticism of Ross is fair and needed. McCarthy kicking long to no one is absolutely an issue, but if you go back and read my post and look at how our season's panned out so far, there's been enough to suggest that we're moving in the right direction. As soon as I think we're not, I'll be right on board the sack Lyon train.
 
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T0ecutter said:
Oh ...look who it is?....Don't you have some poor defenceless WCE supporter to disembowel with your low brow trolling
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Nah, I'm fresh out.

And you don't interest me, I have a strict policy not to engage with navel lint. Bye bye.
 
Tbonefreo said:
My guess since its a 4 year re build, RtB is sectioning off the team, piece by piece. By next year Spurr Griff Etc will be replaced like Suban, dP, Dawson.

As someone else mentioned its only year 1 of a re build. Ross is doing it his way. If it all works out he is a genius. If not he leaves we get a new coach. The sun will still rise.

I have faith- dont have a choice
Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much where i'm at. The list clearly needs more work (2 off-seasons IMO), so that stays the hand somewhat. As do the credits in the bank. 2016 obviously ate into those, as do the games this year where we seem to look fundamentally lost. What's the worst case though? We lose because we play like s**t, we rebuild through higher draft picks and whoever replaces him gets a list replete with decent youth and some very good vets to work around.
 

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The big fight: Outshined and youmewe v the reigning champ: confirmation bias. Settling in.
tumblr_ljh0puClWT1qfkt17.gif
 
E Shed said:
yeah thats the bit that scares me the most. He just grinds them down to the point they are paralysed with indecision.
He gets a buy in that allows mediocre players to punch above their weight but once it wears off the team is turgid and lethargic.
Click to expand...

Turgid ......nice one is it like a combo of tired and flaccid


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freo1997 said:
Sacking ross is not the answer...bringing in an assistant with senior experience like vossy would be bloody superb imo. Need more credentials in that coaching panel.
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Not sure if you're serious or not? Voss is hopeless.

It doesn't matter who is under Ross. He's the boss. It's his call at the end of the day and rightfully so, he's the one answerable to the media and the board.
 
I really did try to stay out of this but I can't 6 months in to a rebuild ? what a load of crap if ole rosco wasnt so risk averse we would be exactly 2 years into a 5 year rebuild , anyone with a pinch of football nouse could see we were gonzo as a flag chance half way through 2015 but he did nothing just fiddled while the house burned


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If there is an opportunity to get Clarkson, we should sack Ross in a heart beat.

I have a feeling Clarkson could be tempted with the $$$ and our playing list ain't too bad.
 
Boppo said:
Danger signs

The exciting brand of footy we displayed in round 3 is slowly being eradicated from our game as the RtB typical gameplam is being adopted.

Typically we win by overpowering numbers at the breakdown and zone defence. As the game goes on it makes it tough for opposing teams to score but It sucks as a spectacle as well. Once the stoppage is lost, we flood back and fill gaps with only the very last line playing man on man. That allows opposition to chip the ball around and rack up huge possessions, marks in front of goal and inside 50s. Pies, Dons, Blues Eagles crowd all 50 odd possessions up by halftime. In the case of The good teams..huge scores in the first 20 mins. It is also energy sapping to be chasing so much.

We take the best part of the first quarter figuring out where to stand in the zone. When we get the zone wrong, the opposition finds loose men everywhere. We're expected to regain the ball deep in defence and try and counter but of course, everyone is behind the ball and the forward line looks like an empty green pasture. Getting it out is a battles without 211.

We ran over a couple of teams but we're in turn overrun by a fitter team last weekend. The Carlton game in the wet particular took its toll no wonder we got hammered by the Crows.

Of all the games, last week was the most sobering it shows glimpses of why young was layers with flair Langdon and Balic haven't put pen to paper yet.
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I'm backing Ross in to find a way
Im proud to say I haven't joined the chorus of those who don't
But this is as good summary of our game plan as I've seen
 
Banker said:
If there is an opportunity to get Clarkson, we should sack Ross in a heart beat.

I have a feeling Clarkson could be tempted with the $$$ and our playing list ain't too bad.
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I don't agree with that. There's a lot of myth surrounding Clarkson, and I still believe we blew our chance in 2013 with a team comprised of lesser-quality players than he had at his disposal on the day.

I'm not saying he's not a good coach, and I'm not even necessarily disagreeing with someone who says might be a great one - but I don't think he's all he's made out to be.
 
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Banker said:
If there is an opportunity to get Clarkson, we should sack Ross in a heart beat.

I have a feeling Clarkson could be tempted with the $$$ and our playing list ain't too bad.
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How many $$$ would that be?

Clarkson is contracted until the end of 2019 at $1.2m per year.

Then you would have to pay out RTB. He's contracted for another 3 1/2 years at $1-1.1m per year.
 
Let me get this straight.

We should sack Ross Lyon because we are in the top 8 after 11 rounds during year 2 of our rebuild because he has no history of being successful at rebuilds and replace him with Alistair Clarkson who has shown he can.

He was able to do that rebuild of the back of an incompetent Fremantle hierarchy who rewarded Hawthorn with an embarrassment of riches in return for club legend Luke McPharlin (I understand this was before his time, but the point remains). He then took over Hawthorn and was able to bring in two of the best KPF in recent history due to antiquated rules than we cannot benefit from and THEN get a KPB for almost nothing thanks to...... oh that's right, FREMANTLE.

Clarkson is in my eyes the best coach in the league. He has the runs on the board and he is ruthless in his pursuit of success. Lyon is the second best for me and he need's to be backed in for at least the next 2 years. Rebuilds are not done quickly. Look at Hawthorn for instance. Look at GWS who have 25 (give or take) first round draft picks since 2011 and are still yet to get a flag.

If you are expecting results this year I ask you to cast your eyes back to 2007-2012 and the absolute rabble that our club was. If there was someone better available than Lyon, I would be all for it. Let's see how Clarkson and Hawthorn go over the next 3 years after selling the farm for O'Meara compared to Fremantle who paid almost nothing for Bennell (who may end up like O'Meara but risk V reward?), Hamling, Kerstern and McCarthy.

Lyon doesn't deserve this vitriol from supporters, he deserves our support until that is no longer sustainable. If you sat through the Mark Harvey era you would realise we are no where near that point.

Yet.
 
Yeti said:
Let me get this straight.

We should sack Ross Lyon because we are in the top 8 after 11 rounds during year 2 of our rebuild because he has no history of being successful at rebuilds and replace him with Alistair Clarkson who has shown he can.

He was able to do that rebuild of the back of an incompetent Fremantle hierarchy who rewarded Hawthorn with an embarrassment of riches in return for club legend Luke McPharlin (I understand this was before his time, but the point remains). He then took over Hawthorn and was able to bring in two of the best KPF in recent history due to antiquated rules than we cannot benefit from and THEN get a KPB for almost nothing thanks to...... oh that's right, FREMANTLE.

Clarkson is in my eyes the best coach in the league. He has the runs on the board and he is ruthless in his pursuit of success. Lyon is the second best for me and he need's to be backed in for at least the next 2 years. Rebuilds are not done quickly. Look at Hawthorn for instance. Look at GWS who have 25 (give or take) first round draft picks since 2011 and are still yet to get a flag.

If you are expecting results this year I ask you to cast your eyes back to 2007-2012 and the absolute rabble that our club was. If there was someone better available than Lyon, I would be all for it. Let's see how Clarkson and Hawthorn go over the next 3 years after selling the farm for O'Meara compared to Fremantle who paid almost nothing for Bennell (who may end up like O'Meara but risk V reward?), Hamling, Kerstern and McCarthy.

Lyon doesn't deserve this vitriol from supporters, he deserves our support until that is no longer sustainable. If you sat through the Mark Harvey era you would realise we are no where near that point.

Yet.
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Too right, I think the response after every loss is predictably heavy-handed and emotional. Ross Lyon is the best coach we've ever had and the best chance to fill that cabinet with silverware. He needs the players (ie cattle) to come good and that's the department of Bond, Lloyd et al. Even the best coach can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It will be worth seeing how Clarkson does in a rebuild as a comparison.
 
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