List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

Is Ross still the man for the job?

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Square Peg said:
When you are finished with the hysteria, exaggerations and straw man arguments it might be worth responding in detail. I stress might.
For now I think I'll just repeat the following, again for your benefit

The metric of wins and losses per season is the metric comparing team performance from year to year that matters. Everything else is peripheral bullshit, soon to be forgotten by history. The only caveat to that is the uneven fixture might mean you have it worse one year than another but in the end, as Lyon himself says, it's an outcomes industry. People can crap on about whatever process measures they want, it means nothing in comparison.

Unless you believe team performance is 100% due to the coach, that is not a metric to judge a coach by. And I never said it was. So bullshit on about it with your fallacious arguments all you want but Joao was the only one trying to make that connection and I shot it down in flames.

The rest of your post is about as useful and relevant to me as **** on a bull, so I have no idea why you are addressing it to me.
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You have lost the plot mate. All my responses were to direct comments of yours. Go back and read through them. You said that people here had said Lyon was the best in the league. I said no one had said that. Then you mentioned others. All shown to be wanting.

There isn’t a decent argument you have come up with yet. Once you have one that is beyond the fact you don’t like him then I will happily acknowledge it.

What is your solution? Clarkson isn’t coming so apart from that present a solution that is a better course of action than the one we are taking. I’m interested to see if you can provide anything more than negative, biased, vitriolic garbage.
 
A good way to lower the anxiety about the coaching is to go and have a read of some other boards , they really are very similar complaints that get made and generally totally dependent on how the team is travelling vs the team expectations. I'm not talking about the just the teams struggling either the Saints are the most critical of the ones I've read but I was quite surprised at how venomous the Swans thread was considering they have done pretty well for so long. Port are hating Hinkley but the Crows seem to be giving Pyke a pass.

There are brick throwers and koolaiders on every one of them and a lot of them are having some pretty spiteful back and forths
After my little research tour it definitely made me reconsider getting too worked up about the coaching , it just seems a bit silly when everyone else is having the exact same conversations
BF is pretty good for player evaluations lots of eyeballs means not much gets missed , you get different opinions but you get a balanced view if your not involved in the discussions and don't really care either way
There doesn't look like there is too much real insight into the coaching though and most of the posts you could just replace the names and a few details and dates and repost them on here without anyone knowing the difference


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
On Talking Footy on Monday night, in their weekly overrated/underrated segment they asked about Brisbane's season.
4 out of 4 of the panel said underrated and spoke of how good Brisbane's young team is.
They then discussed Freo's rebuild. Darcy and Campbell Brown both said overrated, BT was undecided so went underrated as his default, and Carey went underrated.

I point this out because so far in 2018, when I sort Freo's games by the age differential between the team Freo have fielded versus their opposition, Freo have only played a team younger than them on 4 occasions. Freo won 3 of those games. In fact, Freo won 6 of their 7 best ranked age differential games with a points For and Against for those 7 games of 140%. For the other 13 games, Freo have won just 2 and had a percentage of 67%.
Those statistics indicate that Freo, given the age of the players they are fielding versus the age of their opposition, have been fairly successful in 2018 in terms of a rebuild.

Yes Brisbane came over to Perth Stadium and beat Freo in Round 15 by 55 points, but that was after Freo's bye with Blakely as an injured out, Sandilands as a late withdrawl (replaced with Nyhius) and Fyfe then got injured early in the 2nd quarter. Brisbane's team was also an average of 216 days older than Freo's.
Brisbane who have been rebuilding for some years more than Freo. They have played just 3 games against teams younger than them and have won 2 of them (the Freo game and their R16 home game against Carlton). The only other 2 games they have won have strangely both been against a much older Hawthorn.
 
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PurpleEyes said:
On Talking Footy on Monday night, in their weekly overrated/underrated segment they asked about Brisbane's season.
4 out of 4 of the panel said underrated and spoke of how good Brisbane's young team is.
They then discussed Freo's rebuild. Darcy and Campbell Brown both said overrated, BT was undecided so went underrated as his default, and Carey went underrated.

I point this out because so far in 2018, when I sort Freo's games by the age differential between the team Freo have fielded versus their opposition, Freo have only played a team younger than them on 4 occasions. Freo won 3 of those games. In fact, Freo won 6 of their 7 best ranked age differential games with a points For and Against for those 7 games of 140%. For the other 13 games, Freo have won just 2 and had a percentage of 67%.
Those statistics indicate that Freo, given the age of the players they are fielding versus the age of their opposition, have been fairly successful in 2018 in terms of a rebuild.

Yes Brisbane came over to Perth Stadium and beat Freo in Round 15 by 55 points, but that was after Freo's bye with Blakely as an injured out, Sandilands as a late withdrawl (replaced with Nyhius) and Fyfe then got injured early in the 2nd quarter. Brisbane's team was also an average of 216 days older than Freo's.
Brisbane who have been rebuilding for some years more than Freo. They have played just 3 games against teams younger than them and have won 2 of them (the Freo game and their R16 home game against Carlton). The only other 2 games they have won have strangely both been against a much older Hawthorn.
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Brisbane have 3 times the amount of Premierships since we entered the comp, we've been rebuilding for 23 years
 
tonygeeks said:
A good way to lower the anxiety about the coaching is to go and have a read of some other boards , they really are very similar complaints that get made and generally totally dependent on how the team is travelling vs the team expectations. I'm not talking about the just the teams struggling either the Saints are the most critical of the ones I've read but I was quite surprised at how venomous the Swans thread was considering they have done pretty well for so long. Port are hating Hinkley but the Crows seem to be giving Pyke a pass.

There are brick throwers and koolaiders on every one of them and a lot of them are having some pretty spiteful back and forths
After my little research tour it definitely made me reconsider getting too worked up about the coaching , it just seems a bit silly when everyone else is having the exact same conversations
BF is pretty good for player evaluations lots of eyeballs means not much gets missed , you get different opinions but you get a balanced view if your not involved in the discussions and don't really care either way
There doesn't look like there is too much real insight into the coaching though and most of the posts you could just replace the names and a few details and dates and repost them on here without anyone knowing the difference


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Not surprised. Probably Hawthorn and Richmond would be the only club without supporters wanting their coach gone. Crows* and Power were both in/out of love with their coaches in a short span of time. Eagles and Tigers coaches were absolutely hated by their supporters saying the club would go nowhere with them.

* shocked if Crows are giving Pyke a pass. He was a big factor in derailing their season.
 
theGav56 said:
Deflection to what? Your ignorant comparison; not even deflection worthy.
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Usually when a team goes back to back to back, they get leeway, the only back to back to back we seem good at is missing finals....
 
heres a question, has any coach ever been given 8 seasons and never won a Premiership under them, don't know the stats on coaches
 

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maka said:
heres a question, has any coach ever been given 8 seasons and never won a Premiership under them, don't know the stats on coaches
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I don't mind the spotlight put on our club, coach, etc, in a measured response, take a breath and take out the emotion.
It had the desired effect on both the Tigers, Pies, and improved them on and off the field.
If the club does nothing then sure I will join you with a pitchfork. Are Hardwick, Buckley better coaches than Ross?
Hardly, but you are venting at Lyon, when it should at the club.
A proper review should enforce, enhance the tools available to Lyon, if that doesn't work then I want him gone too.
 
blue shark said:
I don't mind the spotlight put on our club, coach, etc, in a measured response, take a breath and take out the emotion.
It had the desired effect on both the Tigers, Pies, and improved them on and off the field.
If the club does nothing then sure I will join you with a pitchfork. Are Hardwick, Buckley better coaches than Ross?
Hardly, but you are venting at Lyon, when it should at the club.
A proper review should enforce, enhance the tools available to Lyon, if that doesn't work then I want him gone too.
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whose idea was it to rid assistants like Scott, kirk, Sumich? Clear out an entire team of players within two season instead of transitioning and trialing players? Whose idea was it to keep going after troublesome players like Sylvia, Bennell, Morabito, Yarran?
 
maka said:
heres a question, has any coach ever been given 8 seasons and never won a Premiership under them, don't know the stats on coaches
Click to expand...

Malthouse won a flag in his tenth season with the Pies

Lyon has a pretty similar path to Malthouse. Reaches 3 Grand finals with his club (obviously the biggest difference is Lyon didn't win any state of origin flags). Gets poached across the Nullarbor. In a few seasons takes his new club to the GF but fails to overcome an eventual threepeat team. Goes from home QF to bottom 4 in one season. Malthouse then has one more season in the bottom 2 before returning to finals. First round priority pick and some handy father sons players helped as well.
 
poshman said:
No reason to think we will get better?

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on bigfooty. Up there with ‘it was brayshaws fault he got hit in the head’.

Do you not think we will get improvement out of any of the following?

Brayshaw
Cerra
Cox
Tabs
Fyfe (plays 18 games)
Darcy
Blakely
Ryan
Wilson
Logue
Hamling

Shall we continue. I’m laughing so hard right now. We went over this and you refused to go through the list and admit there has been improvement and some of it significant. But your ‘there is no reason to think we will get better’ surely even the panicked agenda pushers here would agree that natural improvement will come from many one the list. Add to that the consistent efforts of more senior players and we will improve.
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We will get improvement from some of those players, we also see retirements of players this year (Spurr, Johnson, Pearce) and filling in from the bottom end with 18 year olds. We will get younger still. The "we're under 24 years old average age, what do you expect" excuses will be trotted out, Ballas, Mundy (they played well on the weekend) and Sandilands will probably retire at the end of the next year, meanwhile we'll have to prune mid-aged players with little improvement like Sutcliffe and Sheridan. We'll have to got deep in the draft again. By 2020 Hill, Fyfe and Walters will be 29-30, entering the twilight of their careers.

This is how a list churns. Lots of clubs who go through prolonged rebuilds experience this. People forget the last rebuild we were steered through with four quality talls in the prime of their career - Pav, Sandi, McPharlin and Johnson. We have nothing like that now. We have to find and develop players of that ilk to lock down the important parts of the ground, while developing the midfield, and maturing the depth.

It's a long shot. Our list was cooked at the end of 2015, we had recruited poorly during the period (equivalent to 2001-2006 mistakes) and we're now having to rebuild again. It won't be as successful as the last one, because it isn't looking as successful as the last one. We beat Hawthorn in a final with a side that was average age under 24. We can't even beat Brisbane with a team that young.
 
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maka said:
whose idea was it to rid assistants like Scott, kirk, Sumich? Clear out an entire team of players within two season instead of transitioning and trialing players? Whose idea was it to keep going after troublesome players like Sylvia, Bennell, Morabito, Yarran?
Click to expand...

Can't believe we kicked Scott out and forced him into a head coaching role at Geelong personally. Disgusting act by the club. Same as sabotaging Moras knees, Bennells calfs etc. We really should just fold up looking back...
 
Bender571 said:
Malthouse won a flag in his tenth season with the Pies

Lyon has a pretty similar path to Malthouse. Reaches 3 Grand finals with his club (obviously the biggest difference is Lyon didn't win any state of origin flags). Gets poached across the Nullarbor. In a few seasons takes his new club to the GF but fails to overcome an eventual threepeat team. Goes from home QF to bottom 4 in one season. Malthouse then has one more season in the bottom 2 before returning to finals. First round priority pick and some handy father sons players helped as well.
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he made the finals every year with WCE including two flags, he has a right to rebuild he kept blooding and improving teams for a sustained period, he ruined Saints and did the same at Freo, this is his first rebuild, considering we started last year you must be willing to give him 6+ more years then think about moving him on?
 
MadDocker said:
Can't believe we kicked Scott out and forced him into a head coaching role at Geelong personally. Disgusting act by the club. Same as sabotaging Moras knees, Bennells calfs etc. We really should just fold up looking back...
Click to expand...

Mora was injured at the draft camp, Bennell was a sentence away from prison
 
maka said:
whose idea was it to rid assistants like Scott, kirk, Sumich? Clear out an entire team of players within two season instead of transitioning and trialing players? Whose idea was it to keep going after troublesome players like Sylvia, Bennell, Morabito, Yarran?
Click to expand...
So we agree then? Same problem we had in the beginning with Neesham having to do too much, not enough support.
A strong team off the field wouldn't have let a coach have total control, sit back and watch things unfold or leave it to
chance.
 
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