Toast Round 11: Adelaide 38-62 Collingwood

[Hazz]

I only saw part of the post match press conference. Bucks specifically mentioned that the slow ball movement we saw in the first half (and have seen far too often since the season restart) was not a coaching instruction.

The implication is that our ball movement issues in game are down to the players ability to play to instruction (considering skill/work rate/execution/confidence), notwithstanding the defensive ability of our opponents.

So why does nearly every team have our measure defensively, and/or why can our players not execute under pressure?

 

[Bramax]

Early days just yet to be saying anybody has claims to be our next key forward. A career best game against the hapless and Talia-less winless Crows notwithstanding.

I never said he’s the KPF we are looking for. But he’s a better ruck/KPF than Cox. He’s almost 5 yrs younger than Cox with way more upside.
We still need another KPF. We have Kelly but another is needed.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I

never said he’s the KPF we are looking for. But he’s a better ruck/KPF than Cox. He’s almost 5 yrs younger than Cox with way more upside.
We still need another KPF. We have Kelly but another is needed.

Cameron has four career goals.

Two of them are against a team that hasn’t won a game and rested their gun key defender.

It’s promising but way too early to suggest he has permanently passed Cox. And he’s already 25.

 

[Bramax]

Cameron has four career goals.

Two of them are against a team that hasn’t won a game and rested their gun key defender.

It’s promising but way too early to suggest he has passed Cox. And he’s already 25.

And Cox is turning 30. By the end of this season it may be beyond debate that he’s past Cox. He’s already taking strong contested grabs that Cox doesn’t. He’s also a much longer kick and more mobile. I just think he’s showing really good signs. Time will tell.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

And Cox is turning 30. By the end of this season it may be beyond debate that he’s past Cox. He’s already taking strong contested grabs that Cox doesn’t. He’s also a much longer kick and more mobile. I just think he’s showing really good signs. Time will tell.

Hope you’re right and that Cameron can perform as a forward against good defenders and good teams, as Cox has done in the past.

 

[stormskye]

Neither Cameron or Cox are an answer to our KPF, but based on his form Cameron holds his spot. Agree it will be interesting how he does against May, lever etc. He just seems more of a footballer to me, and we have to keep in mind despite his age, he’s still played less than 10 games without a run at it, in a very dysfunctional forward line this year! He also can atleast offer something once the ball hits the deck, Cox literally can’t do anything when balls on the ground.

Don’t forget, our next 6 games are likely all to be in Queensland, in either wet or at worst “slippery” conditions. Cox is a liability unless it’s dry.

Oh and he can kick over 30m

 

[Bramax]

Cameron has four career goals.

Two of them are against a team that hasn’t won a game and rested their gun key defender.

It’s promising but way too early to suggest he has permanently passed Cox. And he’s already 25.

Cox averages 1.2 goals per game and only just shades Cameron at 0.8.
But Cameron will continue to develop and improve. He’ll become a handy number two to Grundy.

 

[Bramax]

Hope you’re right and that Cameron can perform as a forward against good defenders and good teams, as Cox has done in the past.

Cox has his good days but too many ordinary ones. Consistency is his biggest issue. One key point I forgot is Cox really struggles in the wet. Cameron seems like he’ll handle the wet footy a lot better just because he’s a better mark.

 

[DaVe86]

I don't think Cameron needs to be the answer to our KPP issues.

But i think from 2021, if games go back to 20 minutes plus time on, we need to have the 2nd ruck option who can moonlight as a forward. It's a role we haven't been able to master since Leigh Brown retired.

I think a forward line of Mihocek, Kelly and Cameron could be the answer. Cameron can pop up with a nice mark or 2, kick a goal, and support Grundy in the ruck 15% of the game, he becomes a very useful player.

If we benchmark the 2 best teams over the past 3 years in Richmond and West Coast, they each have a 3rd tall forward who plays ruck. I think we have been crying out for it for a long time. We've probably got away with it because Cox was in essence playing that role, with De Goey playing the key forward. Again, we could go back to that role, but I reckon Cameron will be a far more viable option than Cox in any event.

 

[Bramax]

Neither Cameron or Cox are an answer to our KPF, but based on his form Cameron holds his spot. Agree it will be interesting how he does against May, lever etc. He just seems more of a footballer to me, and we have to keep in mind despite his age, he’s still played less than 10 games without a run at it, in a very dysfunctional forward line this year! He also can atleast offer something once the ball hits the deck, Cox literally can’t do anything when balls on the ground

I agree Cameron isn’t our KPF saviour but can become a dangerous foil in our forward half.
Let’s nab a proper KPF in the draft/trade and play Kelly and Cameron up forward. WC play a tall forward line.
And Cameron can relieve Grundy in the ruck so he adds that versatility.
He takes a really strong grab too which we’ve been missing.

 

[Bramax]

I don't think Cameron needs to be the answer to our KPP issues.

But i think from 2021, if games go back to 20 minutes plus time on, we need to have the 2nd ruck option who can moonlight as a forward. It's a role we haven't been able to master since Leigh Brown retired.

I think a forward line of Mihocek, Kelly and Cameron could be the answer. Cameron can pop up with a nice mark or 2, kick a goal, and support Grundy in the ruck 15% of the game, he becomes a very useful player.

If we benchmark the 2 best teams over the past 3 years in Richmond and West Coast, they each have a 3rd tall forward who plays ruck. I think we have been crying out for it for a long time. We've probably got away with it because Cox was in essence playing that role, with De Goey playing the key forward. Again, we could go back to that role, but I reckon Cameron will be a far more viable option than Cox in any event.

Love your thinking.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

I don't pay close attention to ins and outs these days so got a bit of a shock when I started watching last night. Given the number of outs and to topline players it was a good win. Adelaide are no good but they are desperate for a win and at this point we just have to grind away until hopefully the injury tide starts to turn.

I am still very worried about the inability to score but for now just get the W's and hope things improve.

 

[Ulahoopski]

So we should never question selection decisions because the club knows what it's doing and is always right? That's like 60% of why people post on football forums.

Your unwavering support for Wills and the selection committee is admirable and I certainly won't fault you for that.

You can question them all you like but like anything I'm judging I'll go with whoever has the most specific and objective information. If you went with all keyboard experts who proclaimed on release of the selected side on Monday that it was the worst team picked in their memory and we'll probably give Adelaide their first win you'd look pretty silly right now as they all do.

 

[TradeDraft]

Is Gawn a definite to play this week?

There is some Question Mark but I reckon he plays

 

[BEEG]

I don't think Cameron needs to be the answer to our KPP issues.

But i think from 2021, if games go back to 20 minutes plus time on, we need to have the 2nd ruck option who can moonlight as a forward. It's a role we haven't been able to master since Leigh Brown retired.

I think a forward line of Mihocek, Kelly and Cameron could be the answer. Cameron can pop up with a nice mark or 2, kick a goal, and support Grundy in the ruck 15% of the game, he becomes a very useful player.

If we benchmark the 2 best teams over the past 3 years in Richmond and West Coast, they each have a 3rd tall forward who plays ruck. I think we have been crying out for it for a long time. We've probably got away with it because Cox was in essence playing that role, with De Goey playing the key forward. Again, we could go back to that role, but I reckon Cameron will be a far more viable option than Cox in any event.

Seriously if Collingwood go into 2021 with that forward line we might aswell blow the list up.

Pies need a forward no excuses Ben Brown is available have a crack.

I would throw some serious money at Weideman he will be a star.

 

[TradeDraft]

I don't think Cameron needs to be the answer to our KPP issues.

But i think from 2021, if games go back to 20 minutes plus time on, we need to have the 2nd ruck option who can moonlight as a forward. It's a role we haven't been able to master since Leigh Brown retired.

I think a forward line of Mihocek, Kelly and Cameron could be the answer. Cameron can pop up with a nice mark or 2, kick a goal, and support Grundy in the ruck 15% of the game, he becomes a very useful player.

If we benchmark the 2 best teams over the past 3 years in Richmond and West Coast, they each have a 3rd tall forward who plays ruck. I think we have been crying out for it for a long time. We've probably got away with it because Cox was in essence playing that role, with De Goey playing the key forward. Again, we could go back to that role, but I reckon Cameron will be a far more viable option than Cox in any event.

The 2 Rucks System Eagles did in the 2018 GF was a Huge Reason why they won as took Grundy Influence in the Game away

 

[sideswipe]

Stand corrected. I was going off what previous teams have been doing Maroochydore to Adelaide.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Nah don’t stand corrected. I just guessed that. Have now found out that it might be a lot cheaper to get a flight out of bris, so that’s what happens. I was thinking with pre-covid dollars.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[stormskye]

Seriously if Collingwood go into 2021 with that forward line we might aswell blow the list up.

Pies need a forward no excuses Ben Brown is available have a crack.

I would throw some serious money at Weideman he will be a star.

what money? . We don’t have any. Weideman is contacted till end of next year. Brown is only a lead up, we need a Hawkins type. If brown came cheap then ok, But I wouldn’t throw lots at him.

 

[Carringbush2010]

what money? . We don’t have any. Weideman is contacted till end of next year. Brown is only a lead up, we need a Hawkins type. If brown came cheap then ok, But I wouldn’t throw lots at him.

Ah yes, we've backed ourselves into an (out of space) cap space. Can only hope for a pleasantly surprisingly quick development of Kelly, unless we trade out some blue chip for a proper key forward in the immediate term. But who?

 

[Bramax]

Seriously if Collingwood go into 2021 with that forward line we might aswell blow the list up.

Pies need a forward no excuses Ben Brown is available have a crack.

I would throw some serious money at Weideman he will be a star.

You had me at Weideman. Need that name at the club.
BB, not so much. He has red flags all over him for mine.

 

[Bramax]

Ah yes, we've backed ourselves into an (out of space) cap space. Can only hope for a pleasantly surprisingly quick development of Kelly, unless we trade out some blue chip for a proper key forward in the immediate term. But who?

Sidebottom. There you go, I said it. Cue the barrage.
I’d hate to trade Sidey but he’s the obvious bluechip cos of his age.
Would Saints offer up their first rounder for him? Would Melb swap Weideman for Sidey?
And before I get slammed for this, you gotta give to get. No way are we prising a KPF away from a rival without paying.
If we don’t have the stomach for it, hang onto what we have and hope like hell we develop. Offering up what we consider fringe players will only get us peanuts in return and more of the same.

 

[gouki88]

Sidebottom. There you go, I said it. Cue the barrage.
I’d hate to trade Sidey but he’s the obvious bluechip cos of his age.
Would Saints offer up their first rounder for him? Would Melb swap Weideman for Sidey?
And before I get slammed for this, you gotta give to get. No way are we prising a KPF away from a rival without paying.
If we don’t have the stomach for it, hang onto what we have and hope like hell we develop. Offering up what we consider fringe players will only get us peanuts in return and more of the same.

You lose the team - not to mention our elder statesmen in particular - if you do this shocking move.

 

[Jen2310]

THE BEGINNING AND THE END?

There’s two stories here. One is the form of Darcy Cameron. The other is that the form of Darcy Cameron means the career of Mason Cox might be over.

Cox has played four games this season and has not played since Round 6. In those four games, Cox took nine marks. Cameron took nine marks against the Crows on Tuesday night.


This is not a selection dilemma for Nathan Buckley because Cameron has secured the key forward role and the plus is he’s a capable big body to support ruckman Brodie Grundy.

Cox is understood to have a trigger in his contract which would see him play in 2021, but that has to be looking doubtful. Cameron is 25 and on Tuesday played his fifth game for the Pies. Of his nine marks, five were contested. He is mobile, is better at evaluating marking contests than Cox and, most of all, he clunks the ball.

Cox has been a wonderful story, but now Cameron is writing his own story.

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[stormskye]

THE BEGINNING AND THE END?

There’s two stories here. One is the form of Darcy Cameron. The other is that the form of Darcy Cameron means the career of Mason Cox might be over.

Cox has played four games this season and has not played since Round 6. In those four games, Cox took nine marks. Cameron took nine marks against the Crows on Tuesday night.


This is not a selection dilemma for Nathan Buckley because Cameron has secured the key forward role and the plus is he’s a capable big body to support ruckman Brodie Grundy.

Cox is understood to have a trigger in his contract which would see him play in 2021, but that has to be looking doubtful. Cameron is 25 and on Tuesday played his fifth game for the Pies. Of his nine marks, five were contested. He is mobile, is better at evaluating marking contests than Cox and, most of all, he clunks the ball.

Cox has been a wonderful story, but now Cameron is writing his own story.

No Cookies | Herald Sun

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cox could get a 2 year deal somewhere as a backup/depth ruckmen

 

[Bramax]

You lose the team - not to mention our elder statesmen in particular - if you do this shocking move.

I expected a harsh response. Just throwing it out there.
The Pies have never done anything like this before. But the alternative is to carry on as we are.
We could try and trade Wills, Sier, Phillips, WHE and whoever else we all bag ever week and see what that gets us.
I’m tipping not much.