Autopsy Round 14 - Saints vs Bulldogs

[stavro#4]

Your on field players are the result of actions 7 to 5 years back. Until that filters through nothing is going to make it a quick fix. The concern is that there is very few mid career players left so a cliff is coming unless we can work something out.

It hasn’t updated with last night yet. But we have a glaring hole of games played in the middle of our list this year.

We have plenty at the top and plenty of kids at the bottom.

Of the kids Tauru Barrat Dodson Said are the ones yet to debut.

Tauru almost certainly will.

You would imagine Barrats a good chance by the end of the year.

They are literally feeding games into all these kids.

I think they clearly identify the issue you are talking about and trying to rectify in a balanced way.

St Kilda Playing List for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Realistically Jones Heath Webster McLennan Cordy Arie etc are going to be on thin ice come the end of the year.

And another wave of kids and TDK + whoever else come in.

 

[stavro#4]

Oh **** we are at the stage of Tauru and Cordy missing being an excuse. Rock bottom just slipped off a shelf and is plummeting into an abyss.

Excuse?

I’m referring strictly to the spine of our team. I’ve spoken at length this morning about our lack of key position players.

So yeah I’d find some value in having Cordy play forward to give us some structure. I think Tauru would have already played - which end? Doesn’t matter but he is the future and the one we are probably most excited to see.

They help. I never said we win games of football.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

We need height and need to pump games into the kids.

 

[humper]

Oh **** we are at the stage of Tauru and Cordy missing being an excuse. Rock bottom just slipped off a shelf and is plummeting into an abyss.

It’s valid though. Our first choice defender is out we can’t even play our second choice.
We also can’t play play our top 10 pick due to a ridiculous AFL suspension

 

[saintbill]

At the end of 2021 when we finished 10th, we were the 2nd oldest list in the comp.

Under Lyon We are currently the 3rd youngest and we will finish bottom 4.

Which current version is inline with its age projection??

Sorry, who are these gun senior players that Ross doesn't have access to?

Ross, Geary, Ryder, Carlisle, Hannebury, Roberton? Who cares?

Most of those were perputually injured. So what if Ross has a younger list, its not like he lost any consistent quality.

The same excuses get rolled out time and time again, its all just getting tired and boring, a bit like the Ross Lyon game plan.

When the Hawks and Lions were down the bottom they at least had an attractive style of plan. They were coached to be attacking and bold, this is modern day footy.

Neutrals can't even watch a Ross Lyon game. There is just no natural flair to how we move the football. This style of plan has not worked for a decade.

Does he have the cattle, probably not. However the way we are losing is just depressing.

Slow ball movement, outworked, outmuscled, undisciplined.

Sorry but a win rate of less than 40% over his last 8 seasons coaching has to start raising some eyebrows.

Who is getting better under Lyon?

 

[Ads734]

Yeah but you know how when we’re well into a last quarter getting flogged no chance of winning and rtb removes the shackles and we play on and kick with dare?
It’s probably the best we ever look.
Have none of the coaches noticed that?
Maybe pull the move out a bit more often. It’ll certainly surprise the shit out of the oppo. And us supporters.

With respect we did try in the first quarter and turned it over 4 times leading to their goals.

 

[The Punter]

Here's every son of a former AFL footballer who participated last night:

Tom Liberatore - WB
Sam Darcy - WB
Rhylee West

14

Rhylee West

Age

25

Ht

183cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

5.7

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.5

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

13.0

4star

K

5.6

3star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.6

3star

- WB
James O'Donnell - WB (his dad played for us, but romance only kicks in when your dad plays his 100th game)
Brent Wallace - WB (Ok, so he umpired, but if anyone mentions his dad played for and coached the Bulldogs, he'll SPEW UP)

 

[SainterinSydney]

Structurally, just having King and Howard in the team would have had a massive impact. Keeler then gets the second best defender (not Lobb), Sharman then gets the third best defender, Hammer can go to Naughton and Wilkie be more dynamic. I'm not saying we win, but it would have been alot better.

 

[Southeastsainter]

Can anyone explain why we are such a skinny/ weak team?

I understand Ross is big on being able to run, but spare me about getting a fitness edge over anyone. AFL requires very high endurance no matter what.

We just look tiny on field, other than Stocker who can lay a tackle that sticks? Steele occasionally? Clark has been solid this year tackle wise.

We categorically need to add some muscle to our players. I’m sure I’m missing a few that can stick a tackle, but every week we just have teams handballing through our tackles.

It would also help us keeping the ball moving from stoppage…

 

[stavro#4]

Sorry, who are these gun senior players that Ross doesn't have access to?

Ross, Geary, Ryder, Carlisle, Hannebury, Roberton? Who cares?

Most of those were perputually injured. So what if Ross has a younger list, its not like he lost any consistent quality.

The same excuses get rolled out time and time again, its all just getting tired and boring, a bit like the Ross Lyon game plan.

When the Hawks and Lions were down the bottom they at least had an attractive style of plan. They were coached to be attacking and bold, this is modern day footy.

Neutrals can't even watch a Ross Lyon game. There is just no natural flair to how we move the football. This style of plan has not worked for a decade.

Does he have the cattle, probably not. However the way we are losing is just depressing.

Slow ball movement, outworked, outmuscled, undisciplined.

Sorry but a win rate of less than 40% over his last 8 seasons coaching has to start raising some eyebrows.

Who is getting better under Lyon?

What short sightedness is this?

The simple fact one had a mature list and the other has a list of mainly children.

Has NAS not exploded in the last 3 seasons?
Owens much better?

We just got a FRP for Battle.

The simple fact we are in roughly the same position with a less experienced list (significantly) points to better coaching and getting more out of the list.

And “playing attractive football”. This argument always makes me laugh. Let’s say we play free flowing get men forward footy. We might average 2 goals more a game. We probably blow out 5 the other way.

Yippie. Really exciting.

 

[saintbill]

I am not convinced that we won't finish 10th. That's almost the painful part.

Last 8 weeks of 2024 papered over cracks in a big way, we should've been bottoming out then. And we need to bottom out now.

Not this time. We are proper crap right now. We are a lock for bottom 5.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

100%
Some dead set prima Donna sooks getting around here
Yes I showed yes it was a shit show but the only people you hurt with your “I’m staying home till I get entertained “ attitude is your club which will fold

It's an entertainment product.
Be entertaining and people will want to watch.

 

[stavro#4]

Can anyone explain why we are such a skinny/ weak team?

I understand Ross is big on being able to run, but spare me about getting a fitness edge over anyone. AFL requires very high endurance no matter what.

We just look tiny on field, other than Stocker who can lay a tackle that sticks? Steele occasionally? Clark has been solid this year tackle wise.

We categorically need to add some muscle to our players. I’m sure I’m missing a few that can stick a tackle, but every week we just have teams handballing through our tackles.

It would also help us keeping the ball moving from stoppage…

Just takes time.

Balancing it with aerobic gains aswell.

 

[MUFASA12]

Been to the last 3 dogs v saints games and we’ve been rolled by 60+ in all 3, but you know what? Who cares, I’ll keep going and supporting my team cause that’s the only way we’re gonna get any better.

 

[saintbill]

What short sightedness is this?

The simple fact one had a mature list and the other has a list of mainly children.

Has NAS not exploded in the last 3 seasons?
Owens much better?

We just got a FRP for Battle.

The simple fact we are in roughly the same position with a less experienced list (significantly) points to better coaching and getting more out of the list.

And “playing attractive football”. This argument always makes me laugh. Let’s say we play free flowing get men forward footy. We might average 2 goals more a game. We probably blow out 5 the other way.

Yippie. Really exciting.

Will give u NAS. Owens is not improving. Could have had way more midfield exposure but stubborn old Ross put that to bed straight away.

The difference between losing by 5 goals or 10 is immaterial to me personally.

Rocking up to watch us kick 8-12 goals every week is depressing, as I am sure it is for the players.

The Lions and Hawks accepted floggings and kept trying to play attacking footy. Players developed and got better.

Just feels like Lyon wants to limit damage which might come at the expense of actually improving.

We can't win any 1 on 1's for example. Stuff it, just expose them. Maybe some of them might actually decide to hit the gym on their extra day off, because they are sick of being embarrased.

This is year 3 now, and it's going to be a full rebuild. Is Lyon really the guy you want starting from scratch?

For what its worth I like him. Funny guy, great character. However, not sold he is the right guy in this era.

 

[denisp]

The other thing is there is no response, accountability or penalty for a poor performance.

Players can put in whatever effort they want and know they will be playing next week, no matter what.

Something is truly up at Moorabbin.

They’re rebuilding that’s what’s up
It’s all over when Tasmania enter the comp

 

[denisp]

Been to the last 3 dogs v saints games and we’ve been rolled by 60+ in all 3, but you know what? Who cares, I’ll keep going and supporting my team cause that’s the only way we’re gonna get any better.

Maybe if they attract some ‘a’ grade players they will get better too - they are poor in most areas of the game not up to it

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Don’t know.

Club refuses to discuss it and according to posters has the guy training on non team training days to be away from the camera

The entire management and lack of transparency re Kings injury has been a calamity. It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't play at all this year.

What it does highlight is we can't rely on players like Max, we need to find and develop other key forwards. Keeler may make it but needs to spend an entire off season in the gym.

Owens is too hit and miss, Sharman get pushed under the ball and aside far too easily

 

[BrutThough]

Will give u NAS. Owens is not improving. Could have had way more midfield exposure but stubborn old Ross put that to bed straight away.

Owens has improved greatly on last year and had multiple games which show why the coaches view him as a forward.

 

[Saintbloke]

As far as experienced players go, I will except Wilke and Sincs, but to be honest, the rest of the more experienced players are giving us very little on a consistent basis, seem to have lost intensity and having little impact on games. Our raw younger players are not seeing much to aspire to, or seeing the AA efforts they need to bring to play at senior level.

A serious rebuild means making some pretty unpopular decisions with the playing list, and that's always been a weakness with this club.

Lyon just doesn't like dropping older experienced players regardless, but will berate an inexperienced player like Garcia for all to see. This is not taking us anywhere.

That team last night was physically and mentally weak- not something a coach should be presenting to its members, supporters or the general public, who I think would have turned off the game by the end of the the third quarter if they were watching at home.

The club has made a right old meal of things over the last 4 or 5 years.

 

[stavro#4]

Will give u NAS. Owens is not improving. Could have had way more midfield exposure but stubborn old Ross put that to bed straight away.

The difference between losing by 5 goals or 10 is immaterial to me personally.

Rocking up to watch us kick 8-12 goals every week is depressing, as I am sure it is for the players.

The Lions and Hawks accepted floggings and kept trying to play attacking footy. Players developed and got better.

Just feels like Lyon wants to limit damage which might come at the expense of actually improving.

We can't win any 1 on 1's for example. Stuff it, just expose them. Maybe some of them might actually decide to hit the gym on their extra day off, because they are sick of being embarrased.

This is year 3 now, and it's going to be a full rebuild. Is Lyon really the guy you want starting from scratch?

For what its worth I like him. Funny guy, great character. However, not sold he is the right guy in this era.

So you are contradicting yourself.


We are likely kicking 8-12 goals either way. If it’s immaterial what’s the issue if one stops the bleeding?

They have thrown Owens into the midfield especially in the last 6 weeks or so. The issue is a lack of talls to allow that for longer. He is a third tall who can roll through the midfield being asked to play key position.

Not sure why this isn’t being considered. He is doing a fantastic job for the ask.

Have we not exposed kids? Look at the games they have played, I posted the link above.

I’m not sure what more you genuinely want. They are doing all you are asking. They don’t have the personnel right now to do anything else.

 

[SG34]

Imagine if we could summon the smartest optimist and the most pragmatic realist ever from the football heavens and they could come down to us (at least at cloud level), and out of generosity in their hearts, and without even a whiff of prejudice, bitterness, look upon that performance, before examining St Kilda’s whole list, the stats, the trends etc., before zooming out even further, to consider the AFL landscape, how other teams are traveling, how game trends are changing etc., Imagine if they could talk to us, and honestly passed judgement ? What might they say?

 

[kyrgios]

disappointing crowd.

Miss the old Moorabbin days when we packed the ground and made a heap of noise even when winning wooden spoons.

 

[denisp]

disappointing crowd.

Miss the old Moorabbin days when we packed the ground and made a heap of noise even when winning wooden spoons.

Don’t despair next year may be our Spoon year

 

[denisp]

Your on field players are the result of actions 7 to 5 years back. Until that filters through nothing is going to make it a quick fix. The concern is that there is very few mid career players left so a cliff is coming unless we can work something out.

Cliff rapidly approaching