Roast Round 3 post game rant thread

[Silvagnis]

I just think we may not have the balance quite right......fair enough we were worried about openng ourselves up to counter attacks with a fast moving brand of footy using the corridor, but I suspect we have become that obsessed with adding controlling the footy as plan B (and switching play to the fat side, and chipping around until something opens up) that we may not be quite working on plan A enough.....

No doubt getting number 5, and some team balance back and playing blokes like Gibbs and Walker in the right roles will help with plan A. Plus we haven't really seen a McLean, Judd, Murphy, Gibbs and Simpson midfield released in anger yet. Walker, Carrazzo, AJ and JR to do jobs, Scotto and Army dashing out of D50, and pumping games into Lucas, Robbo, Yaz and Hendo.....plenty to look forward to

We should be playing Walker in the Chance Bateman role he was playing to a T in 2007(smashed Burgoyne and kicked 10 goals, but we've had to play him down back with Bower out.

Anyone who questions Walker's disposal should look at Bateman's clanger at the 1.20 mark in this Rioli video...

http://bigpondvideo.com/AFL/256889

The Hawk missed an open target by a mile.

Yet we can't really play Walker there if Carrazzo in the middle.

I don't know how to balance the Walker who played on the weekend to this one who could set up and kick goals with very good kicks.

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Throw him forward.

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If you were Essendon, you'd rather have an attacking player such as Walker playing as a defender and not streaming forward by taking on your mids. Geelong and Dockers just put them away because they don't defend well on the counter attack.

I just put his game down to most of our players failing to respond to the pressure for the second week in succession.

Our decision making went to water.

 

[thylacine60]

Walker streams forward and kicks the ball into the crowd. TG your support of this bloke and his crap footskills is bordering on Guns and his tedious Ellard posts. All the footage in the world of other players clangers (relevance?) and the odd bit of Tex magic can't gloss over the fact his disposal is basically as bad as it ever was and won't be improving - ever. How playing him in a different position improves his kicking or decision making is beyond me.

 

[Silvagnis]

Walker streams forward and kicks the ball into the crowd. TG your support of this bloke and his crap footskills is bordering on Guns and his tedious Ellard posts. All the footage in the world of other players clangers (relevance?) and the odd bit of Tex magic can't gloss over the fact his disposal is basically as bad as it ever was and won't be improving - ever. How playing him in a different position improves his kicking or decision making is beyond me.

That's your opinion mate.

I have faith he can turn it around because he's played better footy than that in the past.

His disposal wasn't poor against the Lions.

That's a fact.

You see what you want to see.

The footage of Bateman's clangers proves that even the best sides carry players who are poor kicks.

Hawthorn supporters said Bateman was a poor kick early in his career.

No side has 22 Darren Jarmans out there.

But they use their poor kicks smarter than Ratten and Carlton ATM.

 

[incog43]

Walker streams forward and kicks the ball into the crowd. TG your support of this bloke and his crap footskills is bordering on Guns and his tedious Ellard posts. All the footage in the world of other players clangers (relevance?) and the odd bit of Tex magic can't gloss over the fact his disposal is basically as bad as it ever was and won't be improving - ever. How playing him in a different position improves his kicking or decision making is beyond me.

A rampant walker is fantastic, he is a superb athlete, however a lot of posters hang their hats on a couple of outstanding games he has had over his career.

His kicking is pretty ordinary, I don't have any confidence in his kicking and tbh, I don't think he has either, that may be the problem.

He has had some great games, too few however, he just does not have the skills. Once you accept this fact and stop looking at a few highlights things become a little clearer, you begin to put his position in the side in doubt.

Listen, he could come out and star on the weekend, what about the week after, the week after that...

He was up for trade last summer, that's a clear sign of where he sits from a Carlton perspective.

His kicking under pressure, the kick that matters is poor, if he hits a target, sadly, I thinks its a fluke.

 

[incog43]

General do you actually think Walker would get a game at the bombers? I sure as hell don't.

 

[Salaryman]

I reckon Walks kicking isn't as bad as some make out...with time and space...watching him at training and he hits most targets.....running forward of center his kicking looks no worse than the average....it's situations such as when he is pinned down in a back pocket and tries the low percentage left foot passes, or when he doesn't have the time and space that I reckon he struggles. High half forward or run with on the bigger bodied mids is his go...if the MC needed a bloke of 190cm pinch hitting above his weight down back I reckon that's what the 21yo Simon White (with senior WAFL experience) was recruited for...other clubs seem to back their recruits in a bit quicker than us.

 

[incog43]

I reckon Walks kicking isn't as bad as some make out...with time and space...watching him at training and he hits most targets.....running forward of center his kicking looks no worse than the average....it's situations such as when he is pinned down in a back pocket and tries the low percentage left foot passes, or when he doesn't have the time and space that I reckon he struggles. High half forward or run with on the bigger bodied mids is his go...if the MC needed a bloke of 190cm pinch hitting above his weight down back I reckon that's what the 21yo Simon White (with senior WAFL experience) was recruited for...other clubs seem to back their recruits in a bit quicker than us.

The pressure of a game situation is different to training unfortunately. In an actual game, there is an outcome to his kicking, I think he knows that and tightens up.

This may sound weird, but I think his kicking is best when its just a reflex, wins possession and bang, does not think about it.

I could care less about the bombers, shi# take a number, brissie was okay, but don't think he went inside 50 once, Richmond was terrible, 3 inside 50's, 3 shockers.

Actaully I do care about bombers, because it was woeful.

 

[thylacine60]

I've said all season put him on a HFF where his dodgy kicks will cost us a little less in payback. Somehow his kicking for goal seems fine, even pulling the odd one out of his backside. Maybe a stationary target like goal posts doesn't confuse his decision making.

I'd love to see him bust it open again but I've been saying that since he did it in his first game in 04 - which I watched in awe. Recall his post-match interview he was so pumped he forgot to remove his mouthgaurd and then went on to drop the F bomb. I do love him but not sure he loves me any more.

PS: You'd reckon being put on the market might quell a bloke's enthusiasm to die for the jumper - and rightly so I suppose.

 

[BlueTongue]

I started the original Walker vs Joe Anderson thread at Halftime on Saturday Night because Walker was absolutely hopeless up until that point (and didn't improve). He went no-where near a contest (Gutless), ran off his man and got caught out with the Bombers delivery more than once, and then there was his kicking...

I've had enough excuses about Walker. His time in the 22 has passed and someone else deserves a go. Even Joey. I mean, the injury excuses are just pathetic. If the Club has deemed him fit to play, then he is fit. An occasional flash of something good is far outweighed by his inconsistency.

TG you are predictable as hell and I just knew you were going to pull out the Bullants mark video (I'm surprised it took you so long). Time to let go and face facts, he isn't going to get better.

 

[BlueTongue]

I've said all season put him on a HFF where his dodgy kicks will cost us a little less in payback. Somehow his kicking for goal seems fine, even pulling the odd one out of his backside. Maybe a stationary target like goal posts doesn't confuse his decision making.

I'd love to see him bust it open again but I've been saying that since he did it in his first game in 04 - which I watched in awe. Recall his post-match interview he was so pumped he forgot to remove his mouthgaurd and then went on to drop the F bomb. I do love him but not sure he loves me any more.

PS: You'd reckon being put on the market might quell a bloke's enthusiasm to die for the jumper - and rightly so I suppose.

If he absolutely must be in the side then I would think FF would be the best option. I mean he can mark a ball and has some pace. Hopefully he wouldn't miss them from 30m out. Keep him away from any decision making.

 

[The Exorcist]

If Walks is to play then it's going to continue to be filling a hole (ie. backline until Bower gets back, etc), or wing / HFF:

* The role he's currently playing in the backline is just wrong, playing on a tall clearly ain't for him. JR is ahead of him on the rucking backman role, which is more Walker style. Walks probably doesn't play tight enough to do either AJ's or Army's role

* Up forward is possible, although I think it gets down to Robbo or Walks for the same position. Robbo hasn't set the world on fire, so maybe play Walks there, although the MC appear to want to develop Robbo.

* In the centre / on-ball, can't see him in front of Gibbs, Judd, McLean, Murph, etc. Simmo has one wing, the other wing he's in competition with Houla / Scotty etc. Reckon a spot gets down to Houla or Walks, Houla has the silky skills, the problem i have with Houla is that his hands are slow when disposing in a pressure situation, he seems to fumble and stumble when under real pressure and loss the ball.

* Off the bench for Walks, yes, but he'll never get settled into a role. And if you're always playing off the bench, soon you'll be dropped, because no one has a position for you and inevitably playing from the bench is the halfway house to the reserves.


Walks' kicking isn't as bad as people make out, but it ain't good, either. It's got a lot better, however, when one year he had the most clangers in the AFL. Hate to use stats, but his efficiency isn't that bad. Part of his problem is that'll he actually do a number of good kicks, but when he does a clanger it really stinks. I've also seen good disposal at training

IMHO Walks can still be a good player - the last full year he played he came 6th in the B&F. When we were really crap I always remember him being hard and giving 120%. Basically missing 2 - 2.5 years is a lot of football, and will take time to get used to the game again. Yes, he's fit to play, but that doesn't mean he has his football compass right. Some players takes weeks to find form again after a significant lay off, it ain't unusual. Perhaps at age 23 he's missed too much? At day's end, is the MC willing to invest in him over guys like Robbo & Lucas etc?

 

[thylacine60]

If Walks is to play then it's going to continue to be filling a hole (ie. backline until Bower gets back, etc), or wing / HFF:

* The role he's currently playing in the backline is just wrong, playing on a tall clearly ain't for him. JR is ahead of him on the rucking backman role, which is more Walker style. Walks probably doesn't play tight enough to do either AJ's or Army's role

* Up forward is possible, although I think it gets down to Robbo or Walks for the same position. Robbo hasn't set the world on fire, so maybe play Walks there, although the MC appear to want to develop Robbo.

* In the centre / on-ball, can't see him in front of Gibbs, Judd, McLean, Murph, etc. Simmo has one wing, the other wing he's in competition with Houla / Scotty etc. Reckon a spot gets down to Houla or Walks, Houla has the silky skills, the problem i have with Houla is that his hands are slow when disposing in a pressure situation, he seems to fumble and stumble when under real pressure and loss the ball.

* Off the bench for Walks, yes, but he'll never get settled into a role. And if you're always playing off the bench, soon you'll be dropped, because no one has a position for you and inevitably playing from the bench is the halfway house to the reserves.


Walks' kicking isn't as bad as people make out, but it ain't good, either. It's got a lot better, however, when one year he had the most clangers in the AFL. Hate to use stats, but his efficiency isn't that bad. Part of his problem is that'll he actually do a number of good kicks, but when he does a clanger it really stinks. I've also seen good disposal at training

IMHO Walks can still be a good player - the last full year he played he came 6th in the B&F. When we were really crap I always remember him being hard and giving 120%. Basically missing 2 - 2.5 years is a lot of football, and will take time to get used to the game again. Yes, he's fit to play, but that doesn't mean he has his football compass right. Some players takes weeks to find form again after a significant lay off, it ain't unusual. Perhaps at age 23 he's missed too much? At day's end, is the MC willing to invest in him over guys like Robbo & Lucas etc?

What you say is basically correct, I just don't have this level of calm or belief in your verisimilitudes when he lofts the ball into the stands under little pressure in a tight game against the arch-enemy. I can't turn to my equally disbelieving B-I-L and offer him "His efficiency isn't that bad".

 

[Blue since 72]

I've said all season put him on a HFF where his dodgy kicks will cost us a little less in payback. Somehow his kicking for goal seems fine, even pulling the odd one out of his backside. Maybe a stationary target like goal posts doesn't confuse his decision making.

I'd love to see him bust it open again but I've been saying that since he did it in his first game in 04 - which I watched in awe. Recall his post-match interview he was so pumped he forgot to remove his mouthgaurd and then went on to drop the F bomb. I do love him but not sure he loves me any more.

PS: You'd reckon being put on the market might quell a bloke's enthusiasm to die for the jumper - and rightly so I suppose.

Have to agree with this. He's not a defenders a-hole and his kicking in the back half will punish us more than forward.

Having him take pot shots from HF or closer is fine by me and he should be able to apply plenty of pressure as the ball is coming out.

And just on this; high time Ratts settled players in positions so they can grow and gel. Comment has been made on Gibbs and now Walker, took numerous years for JR to find his niche. lets get them in the posi best suited and leave them there. White/Davies could have come in for Bower and done a better job done back than Walks and if they didn't at least we blooded them and they certainly couldn't have done any worse than the majority of players out there.

I don't subscribe to this 'gotta have lots of players who can play all over the ground' crap either; sure one or two swingmen are handy and we have those but Gibbs for example is more useful to us kicking goals as an attacking midfielder, stop using him as a tagger/half back and let him create (this is against what I have advocated recently but am happy to stand corrected and acknowledge he is not being played in the right position/s).

While he did a good job on deledio how would he have gone if he was the aggressor?
Ratts seems to have an overly defensive mindset when he uses one of our best attacking midfielders as a tagger and this mindset is also noticeable against certain teams, the Bombers being one of them.

When all on the park we have one of the best attacking midfields around but we're not getting full value.

 

[bluetek]

scared, weak and no heart.. thats what it looked like on sat night

 

[Dramoth]

scared, weak and no heart.. thats what it looked like on sat night

and giving away 5-6cm in height and about 20kg in weight wasnt helping either...

The whole team was shite most of the night and we folded under the pressure... why bag out on one single player when everyone sucked

 

[bluetek]

and giving away 5-6cm in height and about 20kg in weight wasnt helping either...

The whole team was shite most of the night and we folded under the pressure... why bag out on one single player when everyone sucked

I was actually referring to the team as a unit

 

[Dramoth]

I was actually referring to the team as a unit

Ahh... sorry about that one then. Thought you were commenting on the comment about yours.

But yeah the whole team looked lost in the end there.