Autopsy Round 5 = Collingwood 48-63 Essendon

[TKiL]

So p’d off with us. We have lots of problems, but they mostly derive from one major problem - we are not serious about winning a flag. Forget the talk and spin. It’s all BS.I’d like to demand the sacking of everyone from Eddie down. But that’s me having a pointless dummy spit. Just so sick of these transgressions, unexplained lapses in form, individuals who don’t commit.And what makes it even more infuriating is that our best footy - when we play it for 10 minutes in one quarter every third week - is better than the rest!

THIS!!

 

[Markfs]

I don't want to offend Good Horse but cream or egg based alcoholic beverages are not the "go to" if you are searching catharsis.
When I was in China a businessman who I was buying goods from took me out to dinner where we drank the local brew which was 76% alcohol.
I achieved catharsis.
At least I think I did.
To be honest I can't quite remember.

it wasnt a restaurant, it was a pharmacist. that was Rohypnol

 

[No SPIN]

took the game on by sending us from almost centre wing to back pocket....and then trying to launch an attack from deep in defence?
This is Nathan”s coaching all over it.
The amount of times we unnecessarily move the ball all the way back from a position we should be launching to attack and effectively invite the opposition to squeeze up on us...it’s common practice at Collingwood

Buckley is NOT setting up the opposition defensively -the logical play when faced with opposition blocking a fwd move is to go backwards.
In fact Haw do the same thing so Clarkson must also be a poor coach.

 

[Silky23]

I just want to say one thing; to all the Grundy bashers saying he’s not worth a million $$, the bloke had 20 touches at 80%, 16 contested, 10 clearances 6 tackles and 37 hit outs hahaha, not his fault the midfield is insipid and stands STILL just waiting for something to happen, if you watch Shiel and McGrath they are constantly on the move through traffic and made our mids look like witches hats all night. Grundy is not the problem, the blokes at his feet have got a lot to answer for.

 

[No SPIN]

So it turns out that after all these years of recruiting, our best key forward remains Ben Reid.

Our key forward cupboard is practically empty, unless we shift Moore forward, which would be suicide with Howe out.

For years we have spend too much money and picks on midfielders and Grundy. Patton, Josh Jenkins, Bruce and a number of others were gettable relatively cheaply and much better than what we have now.


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which of Patton, Jenkins or Bruce are living up to the expectations of their respective supporters at their new club.
I’d say none.

 

[No SPIN]

When Clarkson had the Hawks dominating, they rarely went backwards deep. I remember Sam Mitchell almost always not even getting off the mark to move it forward.

That was before the game became so defensive - all season they have been kicking backwards.
It’s a different game today than when they were dominating.

 

[No SPIN]

I think you should go to bed and sleep it off. That is a pathetic post.

he’s changed “kill myself” to “give myself an enema” so on reflection he may have got some pleasure from CB’s performance - as some do with enemas.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I just want to say one thing; to all the Grundy bashers saying he’s not worth a million $$, the bloke had 20 touches at 80%, 16 contested, 10 clearances 6 tackles and 37 hit outs hahaha, not his fault the midfield is insipid and stands STILL just waiting for something to happen, if you watch Shiel and McGrath they are constantly on the move through traffic and made our mids look like witches hats all night. Grundy is not the problem, the blokes at his feet have got a lot to answer for.

I have twice said he is not worth a million dollars THIS YEAR and I stick by it. As another poster remarked, someone who is considered outstanding enough to be a million dollar player is usually capable of being a match winner. Grundy does not strike me as match winning material. His ruck work in the final quarter in the 2018 grand final arguably helped lose us the match. Even Buckley as a player, fantastic and consistent, was not really a match winner in the same sense as say Michael Voss or James Hird.

Perhaps we do judge Grundy too harshly and maybe the Tv commentary teams overstate the quality of his opposition each week. There is some suggestion he may be hindered by a knee injury, in which case rest him - we don't have much in the way of reserves, but we do have 2 ruckman capable of taking his place for a few weeks.

To me Grundy has not had the same impact at ground level as in earlier years. You say he had 20 touches, 10 clearances etc, and that our midfield is to blame for being unable to take advantage of his dominance, and you may well be right, though it says little for the quality of our mids. Grundy is a very good player, but he does not look likely to impact a game in the way Buddy or any of the other millionaire players have done. Not so far this season anyway.

 

[rand corp]

Too Many Players not doing enough

Forward line just not firing

Ball movement not quick enough

Poor entry into forward fifty

Missed Howe badly in defense: whilst Shaz did ok and reads the play well, when its coming in quick he is just too slow and cannot peel off and get to contests like Howey does.

Crispy just had a bad night, couple of shockers through the game

The Browns are not quite up to it at the moment for mine, whilst Daics looks a lot maturer than last season and is one of our better contributors

Phillips is not a HFF, he is a wingman or nothing

Varcoe looked underdone and will be better for the run

Mayne is well down on his best footy

Wills has been poor this year and we must give someone else a shot, (Sier?)

WHE just not doing enough, just not in the game enough, is not a wingman

Great to have Trealor back

Encouraged by what I hear about Kelly and Rantall

Time to unleash IQ across half back

 

[soreplums]

That was before the game became so defensive - all season they have been kicking backwards.
It’s a different game today than when they were dominating.

I’m all for switching the play to open up the game, but in conditions like last night where field position is important going all the way backwards without having options to come out the opposite way can be dangerous.
I remember thinking midway through the second quarter that we were losing a lot of the ball around the wing when we had possession trying to come out of the backline. They had more numbers around the ball and seemed to be able to win the ball back cleanly and easily. To me that means either we were too slow moving the ball to that point, our decision making was poor, we didn’t have enough players running hard enough into space to keep the ball open, our intensity was not high enough to win the footy or we didn’t have the balance of players at the contest and those waiting to receive.

 

[LuckyLee]

which of Patton, Jenkins or Bruce are living up to the expectations of their respective supporters at their new club.
I’d say none.

Yes, I should have deleted my third paragraph because it undermined my main argument which is that after all these years Ben Reid is sadly still the closest thing we have to a key forward. Our obsession with recruiting midfielders, utilities and experimental crossovers from other sports has killed us.


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[No SPIN]

I’m all for switching the play to open up the game, but in conditions like last night where field position is important going all the way backwards without having options to come out the opposite way can be dangerous.
I remember thinking midway through the second quarter that we were losing a lot of the ball around the wing when we had possession trying to come out of the backline. They had more numbers around the ball and seemed to be able to win the ball back cleanly and easily. To me that means either we were too slow moving the ball to that point, our decision making was poor, we didn’t have enough players running hard enough into space to keep the ball open, our intensity was not high enough to win the footy or we didn’t have the balance of players at the contest and those waiting to receive.

IMO it was exacerbated by indecision borne of missing the pivotal link of Howe in the backline - which will continue until we have cohesion in the backline again.

 

[Silky23]

I have twice said he is not worth a million dollars THIS YEAR and I stick by it. As another poster remarked, someone who is considered outstanding enough to be a million dollar player is usually capable of being a match winner. Grundy does not strike me as match winning material. His ruck work in the final quarter in the 2018 grand final arguably helped lose us the match. Even Buckley as a player, fantastic and consistent, was not really a match winner in the same sense as say Michael Voss or James Hird.

Perhaps we do judge Grundy too harshly and maybe the Tv commentary teams overstate the quality of his opposition each week. There is some suggestion he may be hindered by a knee injury, in which case rest him - we don't have much in the way of reserves, but we do have 2 ruckman capable of taking his place for a few weeks.

To me Grundy has not had the same impact at ground level as in earlier years. You say he had 20 touches, 10 clearances etc, and that our midfield is to blame for being unable to take advantage of his dominance, and you may well be right, though it says little for the quality of our mids. Grundy is a very good player, but he does not look likely to impact a game in the way Buddy or any of the other millionaire players have done. Not so far this season anyway.

Grundy doesn’t just act as a ruckman though, he easily led our clearance numbers last night and is a guy who averages 6+ a game with great contested ball numbers and tackle numbers. He’s a 4th midfielder as well. People easily forget the work he does at ground level and his ability to be a link player around the ground.
He is easily worth the price tag. Yes he’s not a flashy Dusty/Buddy but he is a consistent, durable performer who is held to a huge standard and he achieves it game in game out. You know every game he’s gonna put it ALL on the line and we hold him to an enormous standard which is the issue. And I’m sorry, but as good as our MIDS are at NAME value, there is a huge disconnect and they are beaten quite often. We lack a true inside MID with grunt work that can work alongside Adams, the rest of our guys (Pendlebury, Treloar, Sidebottom) are outside MIDS at best who are great ball users but have often been found out due to not wanting to put their heads over the ball. They’re 3 very very good players who are quite clean but when we get pressured they turn to shit. 2018 granny, 2019 prelim, our MIDS turned to water and it’s a common theme. Everyone knows our forward line dysfunction but our MIDS have also got a LOT to answer for. Forward running great but defensively shocking. Ever see JDG chase and tackle?

 

[Maggie5]

It seems a number of players are being singled out (some of which I agree with) but I am adding Crisp (I do like him).

That handball to Moore in Essendon's goal square had me furious. Why not just kick it forward.

Think that both he and Degoey have to change back their hair colour.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

It seems a number of players are being singled out (some of which I agree with) but I am adding Crisp (I do like him).

That handball to Moore in Essendon's goal square had me furious. Why not just kick it forward.

Think that both he and Degoey have to change back their hair colour.

That handball to Moore was awful. Maybe Moore called for it - if so he shouldn't. Anyway, you imply that Crisp has regressed since he blonded his hair, and I'd agree. De Goey also no longer looks superstar material. It's all very perplexing really.

 

[HFF]

Buckley is NOT setting up the opposition defensively -the logical play when faced with opposition blocking a fwd move is to go backwards.
In fact Haw do the same thing so Clarkson must also be a poor coach.

When you are 3 points down--in the wet---the logical play is to go forward. NOT to go backwards.
We do this even in the dry and end up from an position to launch an attack all the way into the back half and then lose territory and inventively turn the ball over when we could have the ball turned over in our forward half as opposed to our back half.

Clarkson is 4x premiership coach.
And no he doesn't do the same thing----especially when you are coming from behind to try and win a game of football.

 

[Silky23]

When you are 3 points down--in the wet---the logical play is to go forward. NOT to go backwards.
We do this even in the dry and end up from an position to launch an attack all the way into the back half and then lose territory and inventively turn the ball over when we could have the ball turned over in our forward half as opposed to our back half.

Clarkson is 4x premiership coach.
And no he doesn't do the same thing----especially when you are coming from behind to try and win a game of football.

Why do you think this is the case? It’s the formula of two things; Cox is nowhere to be seen because he’s loping around and/or the players have no confidence in him because he gets out marked and out positioned more often than not. Now if we had a bloke like Ton Lynch/Jezza down the line I bet the play would be to go long down the line.

 

[HFF]

Ask yourselves this---when was the last time we saw Collingwood players stream into open goals?
When was the last time we saw Collingwood players burst and break through the 50m barrier and drill a few on the run?
Cast your minds back to 2018 and even bits of 2019 when we would have JDG, WHE, Jamie Elliott, JT, Stephenson--all capable of not only tormenting back lines but running riot either in the air, on the lead or out the back.

Nathan has changed so much in our play---no wonder these guys arent hitting the scoreboard as frequently.
Nothing is ever open in our forward 50.
Slow predictable ball movement with no purpose to move it forward with precision---has put just about every one of our dangerous mid to small forwards out of form.

Teams used to fear or worry when they knew it was Jamie Elliott or JDG or Stephenson one-on-one inside 50 or in a foot race back to goal.

This isnt the fault of these players----this is a problem that begins and ends in the coaching box.
He has turned our biggest attacking threats into our biggest weakness right now.
He has persisted with Tom Philips inside 50.
He has persisted with Callum Brown inside 50.
He has persisted in having a "marking target" like Cox who doesn't actually mark the ball let alone touch it--thus making our ball movement predictable--the pop up kick to Cox who cant even get two hands in the air to attempt a mark in a contest,.

It is laughable. Look at Brisbane---Charlie Cameron their biggest weapon----is designed for him. Not for Oscar McInerney. Not for Zac Bailey. Not for Dan McStay.
We arent Richmond or WCE who have Lynch and Riewoldt or Kennedy and Darling.

Basic things-play to your teams strengths ---which is win the ball enough times as our midfield can accumulate it---and move with precision. That doesn't mean handball circle work--you can still chip kick the footy but do it by moving it forward as fast as possible.
Not stop prop kick sideways.
Not Kick all the way back again but end up in a worse position than where you started.

 

[Maggie5]

Why do you think this is the case? It’s the formula of two things; Cox is nowhere to be seen because he’s loping around and/or the players have no confidence in him because he gets out marked and out positioned more often than not. Now if we had a bloke like Ton Lynch/Jezza down the line I bet the play would be to go long down the line.

Actually, I think the opposite. Too many times they did go to him when there where other options.

I recall one instance in the last quarter, JDG going to him when he had other options.

 

[stormskye]

Ask yourselves this---when was the last time we saw Collingwood players stream into open goals?
When was the last time we saw Collingwood players burst and break through the 50m barrier and drill a few on the run?
Cast your minds back to 2018 and even bits of 2019 when we would have JDG, WHE, Jamie Elliott, JT, Stephenson--all capable of not only tormenting back lines but running riot either in the air, on the lead or out the back.

Nathan has changed so much in our play---no wonder these guys arent hitting the scoreboard as frequently.
Nothing is every open in our forward 50.
Slow predictable ball movement with no purpose to move it forward with precision---has put just about every one of our dangerous mid to small forwards out of form.

Teams used to fear or worry when they knew it was Jamie Elliott or JDG or Stephenson one-on-one inside 50 or in a foot race back to goal.

This isnt the fault of these players----this is a problem that begins and ends in the coaching box.
He has turned our biggest attacking threats into our biggest weakness right now.
He has persisted with Tom Philips inside 50.
He has persisted with Callum Brown inside 50.
He has persisted in having a "marking target" like Cox who doesn't actually mark the ball let alone touch it--thus making our ball movement predictable--the pop up kid to Cox who cant even get two hands in the air to attempt a mark in a contest,.

It is laughable. Look at Brisbane---Charlie Cameron their biggest weapon----is designed for him. Not for Oscar McInerney. Not for Zac Bailey. Not for Dan McStay.
We arent Richmond or WCE who have Lynch and Riewoldt or Kennedy and Darling.

Basic things-play to your teams strengths ---which is win the ball enough times as our midfield can accumulate it---and move with precision. That doesn't mean handball circle work--you can still chip kick the footy but do it by moving it forward as fast as possible.
Not stop prop kick sideways.
Not Kick all the way back again but end up in a worse position than where you started.

I can’t like this enough. Cox ruins our structure. I love the guy but he’s one change that has to happen

 

[Markfs]

Yes, I should have deleted my third paragraph because it undermined my main argument which is that after all these years Ben Reid is sadly still the closest thing we have to a key forward. Our obsession with recruiting midfielders, utilities and experimental crossovers from other sports has killed us.


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since i've been watching the pies, our forwards have been the weakest link. it goes right back to the mckenna days. we've imported a few good ones - david cloke, phil carman, anthony rocca ....but we dont seem to be able to pick them as a kid. billy picken was started forward, jason mcartney...i could think of others if i took a moment...its a collingwood thing, so it seems

 

[Bramax]

What is a reasonable expectation from him in the wet though??


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Agreed. If it drizzles he struggles.

 

[No SPIN]

When you are 3 points down--in the wet---the logical play is to go forward. NOT to go backwards.
We do this even in the dry and end up from an position to launch an attack all the way into the back half and then lose territory and inventively turn the ball over when we could have the ball turned over in our forward half as opposed to our back half.

Clarkson is 4x premiership coach.
And no he doesn't do the same thing----especially when you are coming from behind to try and win a game of football.

Its NOT the play with HALF the quarter left ( when 3 points down) - possession is the logical play.

You take this risk when 2 minutes left and 3 points down.

And thats exactly how Clarkson and virtually all coaches ( except for maybe Hinkley and Dew who have a very offensive gameplay) would expect players to execute in such circumstances.

 

[Bramax]

Competing. Which he never does.

Trade him. Sydney wanted him a year ago. If we can’t trade him, delist him.

 

[Bramax]

Yea, we had a 4 goal run till he came back..... yup mate. You’re about as clueless as Trump saying if we don’t test, we won’t have any cases

Given you elected to digress, I’ll help you out. That’s about as clueless as you suggesting the testing in America is authentic.