Autopsy Round 6 = Collingwood 85-109 Essendon

[loki04]

Think the issue has mainly been list management, though drafting doesnt get away scot-free. The trading for & pay packets of Wells, Stephenson, Treloar, Phillips, Cox, Mayne, Beams & Grundy have crippled us. Its been a perfect storm, which has seen us fall off a cliff, rather than maintain a strong list and fair value salaries amongst players. Walsh oversaw it, with Eddie's influence (including Gubby Allen shiteful contribution) but Bucks also must have approved the strategy in some form

Whilst we have not one of the top 20 KPF's in the league on our list... which is list mgmnt AND drafting

West Coast have 3
Richmond have 2
Geelong have 2
Brisbane have 2
Dogs have 2 / 3
Carlton have 2... though 1 injured

its a major f up, which Bucks mustve again ok'd in some form

Yes list management, player salary through Hines period, drafting perceived best over best for needs (Stephenson vs Naughton or even Balta etc), injury issues, over paying in trades murray beams treloar aish, taking unders in trades last year and still paying dollars.
Development since richo then macrea left has been piss poor, our strength coach or the ability to get players to buy in at the gym has been average since josh Fraser's day.
Club seems to allow the players to be self motivated in the gym whilst great for some gym rats other avoid it like the plague and don't put the work in.

Look at Geelong youth within 12 to 24 months they are built like brick shit houses. Clear differences to our system.

 

[jonmacTrag]

You mean that feral mob that has patiently supported and waited nigh on 10 years. Is that the one?

Dignified exit? That's fair. Make it a one month departure tour with all the fanfare and accolades. And then, he and his partner in crime not to set foot at the club in any capacity for the next 20 years thanks very much. Now that's not personal. That's for the betterment and good of the club moving forward.

No that's personal.

 

[Mukesh]

Don't understand the hate for Grundy. He was one of our better players tonight. Least of our issues. His output is close to being similar to his AA years.

Our issue is our decimated midfield without Adams, JDG, and Treloar from last year. And decline of Sidebottom (Pendles still going strong as ever).

I've adjusted my expectations this year so not going to get emotional over a loss. Just want to see the development of our kids. Keep playing Macrae/Murphy/Kelly/McCreery/Rantall etc. Just hope we don't go back to Mayne/Greenwood etc. Would love to see Madgen and Thomas replaced as well.

No doubt BrodieG is a warrior and carrying a heavy load… but 1 mark ? … one, single mark from our premier big man… this part of his game is not AA, is just not good enough…

 

[MadMaynard]

If and when the decision is made that Bucks contract is not renewed, he should not be the coach what does that achieve. A mid season departure does not magically give us 9/11wins but you can start the process of finding a new coach.
One may even be appointed before year is out, if that coach is a current assistant there could be a release of current role(doubtful after Covid cuts). That coach can then start due diligence with Wright in the background of our football department, have some input into assistants, training staff, list managers and recruiters he would like to work with. Work some more on his game plan and structure given our players.
If Bucks goes mid season and I don't mind but we want the best chance to start planning for 2021 with new coach ASAP not this waiting going through list decisions etc with no coach input.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Club would already have a short list and Buckleys name won't be on it.

 

[doppleganger]

I think we will be near the bottom for a few seasons and a coach will cop tremendous scrutiny. Tough if it’s your 1st gig and if you are highly sought after e.g Clarko there would be better option

It depends what motivates a guy like Clarko

Building up Collingwood and taking them to a flag would be a pretty big achievement.

 

[Collingwood2022]

No that's personal.

It's not actually, well not as far as I'm concerned, but it depends on whether you think the club is in a good space at the moment. If you think the club is in a good place then you would welcome the architects ie McGuire/Buckley etc who are responsible for this to maintain some involvement with the club.

However, if you have a converse view, then logically the last people you would want involving themselves/having input/influence at the club are the same architects. That makes sense to me. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Club would already have a short list and Buckleys name won't be on it.

Well of course he wont be on a list of players who would replace Buckley. He either gets renewed and there is no list, or he doesnt and hes not on the list

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Well of course he wont be on a list of players who would replace Buckley. He either gets renewed and there is no list, or he doesnt and hes not on the list

Short list of potential coaches for 2022 **** sucker.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Short list of potential coaches for 2022 ***********.

Either way (renewed or sacked) hes not on a list.

 

[Lip Gallagher]

Either way (renewed or sacked) hes not on a list.

Yeah i already said that

 

[jonmacTrag]

It's not actually, well not as far as I'm concerned, but it depends on whether you think the club is in a good space at the moment. If you think the club is in a good place then you would welcome the architects ie McGuire/Buckley etc who are responsible for this to maintain some involvement with the club.

However, if you have a converse view, then logically the last people you would want involving themselves/having input/influence at the club are the same architects. That makes sense to me. Wouldn't you agree?

You still don't get it do you?

 

[Laowei street]

I understand your view, but I think a portion of the supporter base will reach breaking point if Buckley's tenure is extended. I have no doubt some will stop attending games or worse, cancel their memberships.

It might be arrogance on my behalf, but I think prospective coaches will be lining up for the job if it becomes vacant.

We're a big club with large resources, and I think a new coach would relish in the prospect of rebuilding the list and making us a premiership team. As long as the plan is properly laid out and everyone is on the same boat including the supporters as to where we're at, I actually think the supporter base will enjoy watching a new list of players grow together under hopefully a successful new coach.

Buckley's been given enough time. I tolerated 2014-2017 and those stagnant years, but I've had enough of him now as other clubs appoint new coaches while we stand still doing nothing.

Coaching changes always brings about a risk of further failure, but I want us to take the leap and go for it. We've been too conservative for the past decade as it is.

Whislt completely understanding the narrative here, it's simply not a truism that 1. 'other clubs appoint new coaches while we stand still'; i can take a stab at North(not working out so well), but that's about it. Except for Freo, who have i reckon improved under their coach, and who was obviously an superb assistant for us in 2018. We have had sensational assistants apart from the one still there(banger); there's a reason he is never in discussions for a senior gig. But anyway, yes the pies job is coveted, as is getting on to the playing roster, but theres not too many coaches with the maturity, eloquence and calm of Bucks. I agree we have a depleted talent list, and will be 3 years away from contending, but the rupture of a media-sen-whately-anti-collingwood bandwagon to sack him med-season is simply counter-productive(im loving my hypens today). I see little value in a mid season change; too confusing, and having coached a fair bit, there's no way you can switch allegiances one week to the next. Players are loyal. Invested. We need stability not the obvious, cliched, knee jerk sack the coach, which is as wise as the play the kids, or 'handball'. Im with yiour sentiment, but just dont reckon we need more of the football world pointing at us and critiquing our methoods. We lose nothing by sticking fat, IMO.

 

[Matrix10]

No doubt BrodieG is a warrior and carrying a heavy load… but 1 mark ? … one, single mark from our premier big man… this part of his game is not AA, is just not good enough…

Don`t forget the 2 perfect palm downs to Essendon players , goal side mind you, to run into open goals, the 2 marking attempts when he was behind his opponent which he should have punched ,2 more goals there, this is just off the top of my head , he has no game awareness and limited football IQ, if that is AA , enjoy our miserable million dollar worth of average output, "my career will not be defined by a premiership" FMD , what are you striving for as a footballer Brodie ?, and people wonder and scratch their heads as to why we are where we are , not hard , Ruckmen are not worth that coin .. hey Brodie , you had a cry and sook to Bucks when we let your close friend Treloar leave the club , if you are half the humanitarian you portray yourself to be, why not do the honourable thing and say, hey guys , Review my contract, am happy to take 2oo-300 k less per year , to keep my close friend Adam at the Club , not in you is it !

 

[jonmacTrag]

Whislt completely understanding the narrative here, it's simply not a truism that 1. 'other clubs appoint new coaches while we stand still'; i can take a stab at North(not working out so well), but that's about it. Except for Freo, who have i reckon improved under their coach, and who was obviously an superb assistant for us in 2018. We have had sensational assistants apart from the one still there(banger); there's a reason he is never in discussions for a senior gig. But anyway, yes the pies job is coveted, as is getting on to the playing roster, but theres not too many coaches with the maturity, eloquence and calm of Bucks. I agree we have a depleted talent list, and will be 3 years away from contending, but the rupture of a media-sen-whately-anti-collingwood bandwagon to sack him med-season is simply counter-productive(im loving my hypens today). I see little value in a mid season change; too confusing, and having coached a fair bit, there's no way you can switch allegiances one week to the next. Players are loyal. Invested. We need stability not the obvious, cliched, knee jerk sack the coach, which is as wise as the play the kids, or 'handball'. Im with yiour sentiment, but just dont reckon we need more of the football world pointing at us and critiquing our methoods. We lose nothing by sticking fat, IMO.

Kick back Lao this is just the thunderheads in the distance. As a Pies man for over half a century I've been through this before and I know it's every predictable scenario.
Emotions are overflowing and whilst some truly half thought out strategies are being shouted from the rooftops they are all saying the same thing really . . . . . . . . Help me, I'm hurting.
As for what the rest of the football world thinks ????

FCK THEM !!

 

[Collingwood2022]

You still don't get it do you?

Clearly not? Please explain.

 

[TradeDraft]

Buckley is zero chance of being sacked and replaced during the season. It’s simply not going to happen.

The most likely outcome will be that it is made known at the back end of the year that he won’t be renewed. He may choose to walk at that time but who knows?

Unless he Walks

 

[jonmacTrag]

Clearly not? Please explain.

Broad strokes are what is needed and certainly not hanging onto past failures.
Let it go man - try to move forward without constantly rehashing the past.

Ed is gone and Bucks will go, there will also certainly be a clean out so you are just flapping your gums really.

Lets get on with rebuilding without anger - been through that with the whole Ranald McDonald catastrophe.

It was anger and spite that led to that and almost bankrupted the club.

Hopefully calmer minds prevail this time.

 

[No SPIN]

I don’t have an issue with mid season sacking/standing aside.
My points stand, be it next week, a months time or end of season.
The situation is untenable for supporters, club, players, sponsors.

You are way off the mark.
Find me one sponsor, or player or club official that thinks the situation is untenable, and requires Buckley’s mid season sacking - only one of each will do.

 

[Kappa]

You are way off the mark.
Find me one sponsor, or player or club official that thinks the situation is untenable, and requires Buckley mid season sacking - only one of each will do.

if we lose to gc and north (unlikely but not impossible) and Bucks loses the faith of the players things can change very quickly, there’s already media reports of player unrest, no doubt the players are pretty pissed off with how the footy department handed the off season and turfed their mates out.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

if we lose to gc and north (unlikely but not impossible) and Bucks loses the faith of the players things can change very quickly, there’s already media reports of player unrest, no doubt the players are pretty pissed off with how the footy department handed the off season and turfed their mates out.

So if a few things happen the situation might become untenable.

Thats different to saying we are at that point right now.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Broad strokes are what is needed and certainly not hanging onto past failures.
Let it go man - try to move forward without constantly rehashing the past.

Ed is gone and Bucks will go, there will also certainly be a clean out so you are just flapping your gums really.

Lets get on with rebuilding without anger - been through that with the whole Ranald McDonald catastrophe.

It was anger and spite that led to that and almost bankrupted the club.

Hopefully calmer minds prevail this time.

If its Buckleys last year I'd like to see him see out the year in an orderly fashion. As happened when Tony Shaw saw out the year with great dignity respect and with the clube best interests at heart. And as history would show he actually handed over a far better list to Malthouse than what was perceived at the time.

 

[Kappa]

So if a few things happen the situation might become untenable.

Thats different to saying we are at that point right now.

he said mid season sacking, so no, we’re not there right now

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

he said mid season sacking, so no, we’re not there right now

I took the words "the situation is untenable" literally, as meaning right now.

 

[No SPIN]

if we lose to gc and north (unlikely but not impossible) and Bucks loses the faith of the players things can change very quickly, there’s already media reports of player unrest, no doubt the players are pretty pissed off with how the footy department handed the off season and turfed their mates out.

please link the media reports