Game Day Round 8 vs. Richmond, Sat 07/05, 1:45pm MCG

[Apex36]

I think there’s no point playing people who don’t make us better in the long run.

This is completely contradictory to your stance on Cox vs Cameron.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

What’s the point of comparing him to players from other clubs when you’re trying to argue for a specific player from our club coming in for him? Are we going to replace him next week with Toby Greene or Zurhaar? Your arguments are all over the shop here.
If you’re going to argue for a player from our club replacing WHE, the logical argument is Reef imo. He played that higher half forward role in his first game and was really solid and got similar numbers to what WHE does, with the upside of having that extra development in him. It’s hard to justify bringing him in though after not playing last week, and WHE, while not having an outstanding game, not having a poor game either.

I know you have your favourites, and Poulter is one of them, but just like pushing for Cox over Cameron at this point, pushing for Poulter over WHE makes little sense, particularly given that Poulter at his current level is barely keeping up with the pace of the game at VFL level. Once the game slows down for him a bit and he’s not looking rushed every time he gets it, then we should look at ways of bringing him in.

I want to see who we are comparing him to for him to being considered “above average” .

Same way, we compare Darcy Cameron to Harry McKay and say “he’s not elite in his position because he’s not as good as Harry McKay”.

This is completely contradictory to your stance on Cox vs Cameron.

I’ve given up on Cox and Cameron. They’re both just filling in till we can find a more permanent solution.

Cameron won’t be in our next premiership side and neither will Cox.

Hence, I suggested last week that I rather drop Cameron before I drop Begg. Begg might be part of our future premiership tilt. Cameron won’t be.

 

[Apex36]

I want to see who we are comparing him to for him to being considered “above average” .

Same way, we compare Darcy Cameron to Harry McKay and say “he’s not elite in his position because he’s not as good as Harry McKay”.

I’m not sure I’ve ever made him out to be “above average” as a player, but statistically he sits around the level by position, with some areas statistically above league average and some below. I’m also not sure why it’s necessary to bring players from other clubs in to the discussion. We work with what we have on the list, and from a logical standpoint, we don’t currently have a better option playing in the VFL in the same position to replace him with. Take your own personal emotions towards players out of the equation and you know that it’s true.

I’ve given up on Cox and Cameron. They’re both just filling in till we can find a more permanent solution.

Cameron won’t be in our next premiership side and neither will Cox.

Hence, I suggested last week that I rather drop Cameron before I drop Begg. Begg might be part of our future premiership tilt. Cameron won’t be.

Ah the old “he’s not going to be in our next premiership side” argument. I remember people coming out with the same BS argument about Sidebottom and even Pendles in 2017 and they were 2 points of being in that next premiership 12 months later. Come up with something more convincing please.

 

[MyManLynch]

I have a feeling we may be smacked tomorrow…first time this year

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I’m not sure I’ve ever made him out to be “above average” as a player, but statistically he sits around the level by position, with some areas statistically above league average and some below. I’m also not sure why it’s necessary to bring players from other clubs in to the discussion. We work with what we have on the list, and from a logical standpoint, we don’t currently have a better option playing in the VFL in the same position to replace him with. Take your own personal emotions towards players out of the equation and you know that it’s true.

Ah the old “he’s not going to be in our next premiership side” argument. I remember people coming out with the same BS argument about Sidebottom and even Pendles in 2017 and they were 2 points of being in that next premiership 12 months later. Come up with something more convincing please.

Everything except disposals and marks are average or below average. That’s the issue. He’s a below average player who can be replaced by one of our younger players.

Okay, he’s not effective enough as a HFF to carry us to a grand final.

 

[gouki88]

Everything except disposals and marks are average or below average. That’s the issue. He’s a below average player who can be replaced by one of our younger players.

Okay, he’s not effective enough as a HFF to carry us to a grand final.

This is just unending circular reasoning

 

[sr36]

So I can see who we can compare him to? Toby Greene? Cam Zuhaar?

We'll go from a 6-6-6 set up to a 0-6-6, if we drop every forward who doesn't compare favourably to Toby Greene.

 

[shizzle]

Happy to see Brown out, offers nothing at AFL level. That said neither does Bianco.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

We'll go from a 6-6-6 set up to a 0-6-6, if we drop every forward who doesn't compare favourably to Toby Greene.

I’m not comparing him to Greene. My question is IF we were to compare his ROLE to another player (from any team), who would it be?

 

[mwhop]

I think we may go well. Richmond are terrible at clearances, and we are very good when we win the clearances.
Meanwhile, we are weak atm in tall defenders, but RIchmond dont kick to packs that often, and even riewoldt and lynch dont take so many contested marks, they usally take them on fast breaks (I think thats why we arent going tall in the backline).
Meanwhile, prestia has always been one of the most effective players against us, and FLy knows Richmonds plan and weknesses well.
We still havent put in a bad perfomance (not even the wce game) - so there no reason to think we cant win.

 

[stormskye]

Happy to see Brown out, offers nothing at AFL level. That said neither does Bianco.

That maybe true. But he can atleast kick 30m and not fumble every single possession

 

[Apex36]

Everything except disposals and marks are average or below average. That’s the issue. He’s a below average player who can be replaced by one of our younger players.

Okay, he’s not effective enough as a HFF to carry us to a grand final.

“Everything except the stuff he’s above average at is average or below average so he’s below average.”

Are you completely oblivious to how illogical that is?

And why does a role player need to be able to carry us to a grand final? Not every player on the ground can be a match winner.

 

[TradeDraft]

I have a feeling we may be smacked tomorrow…first time this year

Bit like 2018 PF but Roles Reversed as we the team that had Gastro/Flu week of the Game

 

[Jen2310]

Maynard. Adams and Daicos all completed captains run.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Chrispiesssss]

“Everything except the stuff he’s above average at is average or below average so he’s below average.”

Are you completely oblivious to how illogical that is?

Lol, I’m not going through this again.

Disposals - above average
Marks - above average

DE% - Average
Kick Efficiency - average

I thought he had time to carve up the play? I’m sure one of our juniors couldn’t have “average” disposals.

Clearances - average
I50 - below average

So he doesn’t win the ball from contests nor does he impact the game forward of the contest.

Goals - below average
Score involvements - below average

He doesn’t actually make a difference on the scoreboard.

Tackles I50 - below average
Pressure acts - below average

So he’s not a Beau type. He’s not actually going to hunt the defenders.

1% - below average

He doesn’t do the little team things either.

No reason for WHE to be in the team.

 

[cityslick1]

About 47 games of AFL experience

Callum brown has 60 games more experience than Ginni, so should be picked before jack every week?

Totally irrelevant stat if the player isn’t / shouldn't be part of our future

 

[cityslick1]

We could risk burying his confidence like Hawthorn did with Zac Dawson

How do you think madgen’s confidence is right now? Even the cameramen have focused on him after opposition goals, knowing that he is often responsible and out of his depth.

And when do you play dean as well then? He’s already better than Madge when fully fit.

 

[gouki88]

How do you think madgen’s confidence is right now? Even the cameramen have focused on him after opposition goals, knowing that he is often responsible and out of his depth.

And when do you play dean as well then? He’s already better than Madge when fully fit.

Madgen probably has low confidence, but he is 29 years old and probably not destined for much more time in the AFL as part of any 22. Liam McMahon only just turned 20 and is physically not up for it at all. The potential long-term impacts of doing it to McMahon seem greater to me.

I blood Dean as soon as he is physically able. He was looking at playing R1, so the coaches seem to think he is capable.

 

[Toecrusher]

I enjoy reading people's thoughts on footy, but the ongoing debate between individuals gets a bit tiresome.

Is there any chance we can be mature enough to say "we don't see or the same way, but let's move on".

Leave the point scoring for the footy field.

 

[Scodog10]

It's about time this that Moore is given the responsibility of curbing an opponent rather than playing a loose, intercept role. He is not having a good year, and needs to show the club and supporters that he is worth the money that he has just gained through a lucrative contract. Hopefully he gets the job on Lynch and is directly held responsible for the Richmond man's output on Saturday. Both he and Grundy have been touted as the main candidates for future captaincy and neither player is exhibiting the kind of qualities expected of a captain. He needs to lift.

A couple of things. I absolutely agree that Moore’s having a down year, but I think it has little to do with his ability to curb an opponent and everything to do with the confidence he’s lost in his marking. Rd’s 1-5 in 2021 he was flying for and plucking everything in sight and so far this year he’s looked a run of the mill marking tall (last week I watched him play the role of spectator when Casboult took one just 2 metres away). When Moore’s not intercepting as well aerially it puts more pressure on others and Madgen as his support cast is vastly inferior to 2019-2021 Roughead (I worry he’s lost something the last 6 months) because he just can’t play with the same confidence.

Perhaps having Moore play tighter on Lynch/ Reiwoldt (ala McKay last year) will prevent him from getting lost and force him to focus more on the ball I’m just not convinced that’s the best thing for the collective. I get a real sense that the threat of Moore sagging off has had as much impact on opposition in 2022 as the practicality of it. Dean’s availability, if we can allign it with Howe staying fit, will be a massive steadying influence on Moore’s game because he not only defends better than Madgen, but he intercepts much better as well.

On leadership Grundy has never and will never be in that discussion. If he wants it Moore will captain the club until the second coming is ready.

 

[Jen2310]

 

[Mollythedolly]

Further to that point here is Poulters games this year

View attachment 1392952

Vs WHE games this year

View attachment 1392955

The only argument for WHE is the lazy one of incumbency. The future is putting games into talented kids that are performing in the VFL

Lucky for Poulter those stats don’t include DE%. Reckon his would be as low by foot this year as I’ve seen in a Collingwood footballer. Also doesn’t highlight that he is demonstrating the peripheral awareness of Stevie Wonder. Let him earn his opportunity.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Because your love child is spudding it up mate.

Poulter?

 

[domus]

I have a feeling we may be smacked tomorrow…first time this year

Logical outcome given our outs and three or four possibly playing after days in bed or on the couch dealing with the flu who may yet be late withdrawals and a full strength Richmond.

 

[sr36]

I’m not comparing him to Greene. My question is IF we were to compare his ROLE to another player (from any team), who would it be?

It's a good question. He seems to be playing a high half forward role, where most teams seem to be using mids who try to accumulate more - or lockdown on a rebounder. I suspect we are playing WHE and prefacing hit up marking in that role as we only play 2 tall forwards - (often only one up forward) and they seem to be staying quite deep and aren't hitting up to the wings that often.