Ruckin' hell

[Spirit of 26]

I find it very hard to criticise Jeff White for his service over the years. However, if ever a number one ruckman needed some support it has to be him.

We all know that he'll never be a crash and bash type and that as he's got older his biggest asset - his leap - isn't as it was.

But the number of times he was easily pushed out of ruck contests around the ground was staggering. He just can't compete body against body.

So his support comes on and spends his time palming the ball down every Collingwood players neck. At least White contributes around the ground, but Johnson, really, did basically nothing. No contested marks, 4 kicks and sooooo slow. He will never be a number one ruckman ever.

If we had a strong, big support ruckman who at least could get into the game, we would have gone very close to knocking Collingwood off yesterday.

 

[Shnita]

Couldnt agree more.

Johnson is rubbish.

 

[master bate]

Johnson did do one of the best kicks I've seen for a ruckman, he hit Miller lace out running through the corridor, and I don't think he is that slow. He got plenty of hit outs but too often they went to Collingwood players. I agree a better ruckman would have put us closer to Collingwood, but I don't think we lost in that area. White played one of his better around the ground games, however I still think he demands the ball in useless positions too much and hasn't really got the Bailey flow through the corridor worked out yet (on that I think Moloney, Jones, Green and Bruce have really started to work it out and it's impressive).

 

[eliasd82]

Lay off PJ, he is not that bad.. He has been one of our bests in a mediocre season... he tries his bloody heart out every week.. and for a big bloke his skill a good.

He just looks slow to you cause he tries to run down little fast guys cause no one else puts on any bloody pressure.

 

[the russian40]

A few things that frustrate me about our ruckman..

Firstly, PJ yesterday, in our defensive 50, kept tapping it in to the corridor at boundry throw ins, come on, be sensible..why put it there, use your other hand or position yourself better.

Going forward our ruckman stand to side on/sqaure getting the easy kick sideways. This is frustrating particularly when we have the ball 60-70m out and we are bombing it forward to the likes of Sylvia/Bate when we have guys like PJ/White standing at the top of the 50, they need to get down there and contest the mark..

Finally, in our forward 50 when there was a ball up/throw in, both PJ and White were contesting the ball, one of them should be in the goalsquare contesting the ball if there is a quick kick out..

Our ruckman just need to be smarter, or told where to go..

 

[Shnita]

I would never have a go at PJ's work ethic, its obvious to everyone that he tries his absolute guts out every week. The problem is his skills. He can be a liability around the ground, dropping marks at crucial moments and turning it over in our backline.

I do however think he is a better option than Jamar.

 

[dazzledavey36]

it shows u dont watch much of him! his kicking skills are one of the best i have ever seen for a big bloke! he can hit em lazer like and fast. he hardly turns it over, and one bloke i feel safe when he has the footy.

 

[JuveRule]

On countless occasions we've had both ruckman go up at the one contest and i can safely say that i've never seen us win the ball from this. They just end up cancelling each other out. Please, just stop it!

 

[the russian40]

On countless occasions we've had both ruckman go up at the one contest and i can safely say that i've never seen us win the ball from this. They just end up cancelling each other out. Please, just stop it!

exactly what I touched on earlier, both guys contesting each other while trying to hit it to different spots..The occasional contest where someone is the third man up and hits it forward it OK, but everytime is too much, and too predictable.

 

[goal sneak]

I have the solution!

 

[Bdiddy18]

I find it very hard to criticise Jeff White for his service over the years. However, if ever a number one ruckman needed some support it has to be him.

We all know that he'll never be a crash and bash type and that as he's got older his biggest asset - his leap - isn't as it was.

But the number of times he was easily pushed out of ruck contests around the ground was staggering. He just can't compete body against body.

So his support comes on and spends his time palming the ball down every Collingwood players neck. At least White contributes around the ground, but Johnson, really, did basically nothing. No contested marks, 4 kicks and sooooo slow. He will never be a number one ruckman ever.

If we had a strong, big support ruckman who at least could get into the game, we would have gone very close to knocking Collingwood off yesterday.

The question is where is John Meesen???? Injured? Cant get a game? Anyone know?

 

[Bdiddy18]

I have the solution!

You have got to be kidding? Thats not even funny

 

[golden state]

No here's the solution

 

[Spirit of 26]

it shows u dont watch much of him! his kicking skills are one of the best i have ever seen for a big bloke! he can hit em lazer like and fast. he hardly turns it over, and one bloke i feel safe when he has the footy.

Not much use having good kicking skills if you only get 4 kicks a match!

 

[Dez!]

The thing in my opinion that Paul Johnson lacks is presence, what he needs to do is impose himself on the game. He needs to let everyone know Paul Johnson is up and about, anyone who says "lack of skill" please jump of a cliff immediately because the man has the skill to succeed in the AFL world and has all the potential in the world.

When he's up forward or even just around a pack, I want to see him crash the pack Neita-style.

 

[hullsy]

PJ is in the top 3 for ruckman in the AFL for disposal. Hes only behind Cox and could be number 2 easily. How many AFL players let alone ruckman can do the things he does with the ball, he is so close to becoming an elite ruckman. I do agree though, he needs to show some aggression. He's the heaviest on the Melbourne list.

 

[Shnita]

The thing in my opinion that Paul Johnson lacks is presence, what he needs to do is impose himself on the game. He needs to let everyone know Paul Johnson is up and about, anyone who says "lack of skill" please jump of a cliff immediately because the man has the skill to succeed in the AFL world and has all the potential in the world.

I wont be doing any jumping off cliffs.

I totally agree that a big fella like him should be splitting packs, or at least standing his ground against the likes of Fraser (or worse still, getting knocked aside by Scott Burns yesterday).

And im glad you raised having "the skill to succeed in the AFL world" as I seriously question this notion. Tell me any other club that would take him? What other clubs are looking for talls that fail to contribute around the ground except in spilling seemingly simple marks?

Having said that, PJ is not the only one that is on borrowed time. Im looking forward to Deano putting a broom through the place a la Clarkson after his first year at Hawthorn. We have a great group of kids out there that are trying their guts out so the future is still bright, once the dead wood has been jettisoned.

 

[Tigerrific]

The question is where is John Meesen???? Injured? Cant get a game? Anyone know?

I have also been wondering why Meesen hasn't been tried. Why recruit the guy and not give him an opportunity when things are going bad? He seemed promising during the preseason and has not been listed as injured.

I suspect he has done something to upset the coaching department...

The rucking contest should be relatively even this week with Simmonds on White and Pattison on Johnson. Go Tigers!

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

I have also been wondering why Meesen hasn't been tried. Why recruit the guy and not give him an opportunity when things are going bad? He seemed promising during the preseason and has not been listed as injured.

I suspect he has done something to upset the coaching department...

The rucking contest should be relatively even this week with Simmonds on White and Pattison on Johnson. Go Tigers!

I suspect you're a genius. It's funny how often people are so totally dead wrong and couldn't be further from the truth when the suspect things without any basis for the suspicion.

Meesan hasn't played because he hasn't played well enough at sandringham to deserve the senior call up.

Yes it seems a little odd from the outside to not play a guy you recruited when you aren't playing well as a team, but the fact of the matter is our other ruckman are playing better and you send the wrong message if you promote a guy who hasn't earnt it.

Meesan has yet to be named in the best for Sandy, Jamar was dropped to Sandy on the weekend and he tore it up with 25 disposals and being one of the best. Jamar is our third string and i'd think he's still a fair step ahead of Meesan ATM.

It's a little disappointing, i was hoping Meesan would be challenging PJ for the No.2 ruck spot by this stage of the year, but i don't think Meesan was expected to be an immediate senior team regular.

 

[Bdiddy18]

I suspect you're a genius. It's funny how often people are so totally dead wrong and couldn't be further from the truth when the suspect things without any basis for the suspicion.

Meesan hasn't played because he hasn't played well enough at sandringham to deserve the senior call up.

Yes it seems a little odd from the outside to not play a guy you recruited when you aren't playing well as a team, but the fact of the matter is our other ruckman are playing better and you send the wrong message if you promote a guy who hasn't earnt it.

Meesan has yet to be named in the best for Sandy, Jamar was dropped to Sandy on the weekend and he tore it up with 25 disposals and being one of the best. Jamar is our third string and i'd think he's still a fair step ahead of Meesan ATM.

It's a little disappointing, i was hoping Meesan would be challenging PJ for the No.2 ruck spot by this stage of the year, but i don't think Meesan was expected to be an immediate senior team regular.

Iif you think Jamar is the solution then you have no idea. Jamar has had many many years to establish himself and still has not shown anything to suggest he would be a regular senior player. At the end of the day Dean Bailey needs to make a call on Meesan which will mean that he plays in the 1s whether hes going well or not. You will find that players who are not playing well at VFL/reserve grade level will still be tried at senior level towards the end of the year to see if they are worth holding onto. The argument that he has not played well enough would be fair enough if the team was winning and our ruckman were playing well. Unfortunately where not winning and our ruckman are playing poorly. Give Meesan a run for 4 weeks assess his form and make a decision, end of story. There have been many a player who has not deserved to play senior footy who has and had his career saved because of it. Play him

 

[master bate]

Iif you think Jamar is the solution then you have no idea. Jamar has had many many years to establish himself and still has not shown anything to suggest he would be a regular senior player. At the end of the day Dean Bailey needs to make a call on Meesan which will mean that he plays in the 1s whether hes going well or not. You will find that players who are not playing well at VFL/reserve grade level will still be tried at senior level towards the end of the year to see if they are worth holding onto. The argument that he has not played well enough would be fair enough if the team was winning and our ruckman were playing well. Unfortunately where not winning and our ruckman are playing poorly. Give Meesan a run for 4 weeks assess his form and make a decision, end of story. There have been many a player who has not deserved to play senior footy who has and had his career saved because of it. Play him

I think we have found the new Norm Smith, stuff Bailey this bloke is our man.

That is pure rubbish, he never suggested Jamar was our next number 1 ruckman, he was just stating that Jamar has gone back to the VFL and had 25 touches and dominated where as Meesen is only battling. Why would you drop Paul Johnson - sure he didn't have his best game on the weekend but still had plenty of hit outs and used the ball pretty well, plus his effort in chasing and manning up is very good, he is developing slowly, but still heading in the right direction.

Also Meesen is most likely on a two year deal and there is still plenty of time to try him, but it is definitely not now, when he is 4th and pretty closer to 5th than 3rd in order. It seems the major flaw in his game is his determination and hardness, which for me isn't the characteristics I'd want in a guy who gets given cheap games in a struggling side.

 

[Bartram_Class]

PJ is in the top 3 for ruckman in the AFL for disposal. Hes only behind Cox and could be number 2 easily. How many AFL players let alone ruckman can do the things he does with the ball, he is so close to becoming an elite ruckman. I do agree though, he needs to show some aggression. He's the heaviest on the Melbourne list.

Couldn't agree more. Can't believe people are having a go at PJ's disposal, its top notch for someone who is so tall and heavy.

A bit of confidence and an extended run in the side will do PJ a world of good, he was easily leading our B&F three rounds in before he got injured.

 

[Bdiddy18]

I think we have found the new Norm Smith, stuff Bailey this bloke is our man.

That is pure rubbish, he never suggested Jamar was our next number 1 ruckman, he was just stating that Jamar has gone back to the VFL and had 25 touches and dominated where as Meesen is only battling. Why would you drop Paul Johnson - sure he didn't have his best game on the weekend but still had plenty of hit outs and used the ball pretty well, plus his effort in chasing and manning up is very good, he is developing slowly, but still heading in the right direction.

Also Meesen is most likely on a two year deal and there is still plenty of time to try him, but it is definitely not now, when he is 4th and pretty closer to 5th than 3rd in order. It seems the major flaw in his game is his determination and hardness, which for me isn't the characteristics I'd want in a guy who gets given cheap games in a struggling side.

I must of been mistaken- "Jamar is our third string" must not mean he is the next ruckman in line It does not matter if Messan is on a 1,2 or even 3 year contract. At the end of the day the club can sack a player when it likes. For example I would be very suprised if Cain Ackland serves out his third year of his 3 year contract next year, he has struggled and I think the club will make a decision to get fresh talent on the list rather than paying someone who is not part of the future.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

I must of been mistaken- "Jamar is our third string" must not mean he is the next ruckman in line It does not matter if Messan is on a 1,2 or even 3 year contract. At the end of the day the club can sack a player when it likes. For example I would be very suprised if Cain Ackland serves out his third year of his 3 year contract next year, he has struggled and I think the club will make a decision to get fresh talent on the list rather than paying someone who is not part of the future.

You've got more spin then Warney.

You must have been mistaken. How do you decipher me saying "Jamar is our third string" into Jamar being the solution - "Iif you think Jamar is the solution then you have no idea."

There is a massive difference between the 2 statements and i have never said Jamar is the solution. Trying reading my post again, I said that Meesan isn't playing well enough yet and the Jamar is currently third string, ahead of Meesan.

I hope melbourne delist Jamar at seasons end, his tenure at MFC is finished. Meesan will be around next year and hopefully he can gain a regular spot in the side.

But, as far as playing Meesan now, no he shouldn't be. Bailey has said he won't go with a youth policy and he'll play the best available, at present Meesan is not best, 2nd best or even 3rd best ruckman we have, so he does not deserve a game.

As for sacking players still in contract, that's a great idea. We're $4million in debt, so let's sack some players who we'll have to pay out and then add on another young player who we'll also have to pay.

Brilliant idea. Don't worry about the next Norm Smith, this guy is the next Joe Gutnick