Injury Russell your feathers - discuss all things high performance; injury lists, Marvel surface, curse from the gods and Andrew Russell

[CCurnow3votes]

Aside from watching the game, we as fans don't know anything more as to why we're winning/losing than what we're seeing. So we should shut this board down? No point of discussion if we don't know the inner-workings.



Neither do you. You are providing absolutely nothing to the discussion, just saying "you don't know so shhh".



Ah damn. Hey everyone, if you're not close to the club, you can't discuss on here. Please log out immediately and CCurnow3votes will delete your account, it was a good run!



You're right, they lost their confidence because they kept underperforming. Much like Russell has been since he came on. Which is why I believe him and others will be moved on at years end.


A quote from Cook means nothing, the sign of the cross for a coach is a CEO saying "he has the full support of the board". What else is he going to say?



I assume the reason he's held on all these years is because the regimes give him a go under a new coach - he only had 2 years with Bolton, then 2 years with Teague (where he was apparently constantly overruled), and 1 year with Voss.

It's a Premiership window now, the club isn't going to piss around hoping it improves. We might end up healthy in the back end of the year and fit for finals, but its likely we will have missed a top 4 spot due to injuries in the H&A season, so will be up against it again.

I’m not here to shut anything down brother - don’t take this personally.

I’m just disagreeing with you.

I believe if we don’t know what’s going on - why assume we know what should be done.

Trust in the club to make the right decision- as they did with Bolton & Teague.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I get your points. And dont mind them. But we have a 'relatively' poor record over three seasons. The High Performance team are responsible for this area and Russell is accountable. What if it was the same again next year? Is that enough for you to call for change? Or are you on board with Russell indefinite?

No not on or off Russell - I just don’t know the facts.

I’m not going not call for a blokes’ head on the basis of an emotional reach.

 

[JustOneTime]

I’m not here to shut anything down brother - don’t take this personally.

I’m just disagreeing with you.

I believe if we don’t know what’s going on - why assume we know what should be done.

Trust in the club to make the right decision- as they did with Bolton & Teague.

In all honesty, i'd say the club made those decisions on Bolton and Teague due to supporter/corerie/media pressure. That is, 'why are the blues so shit'. The board then protects its own position.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

So was David Buttifant. Thoughts on him?

A revered sports science guy - came up with high altitude training method - quickly googled .

What’s the link ?

 

[JustOneTime]

No not on or off Russell - I just don’t know the facts.

I’m not going not call for a blokes’ head on the basis of an emotional reach.

I think that is almost moot. We can look at the 'output' which is number of hamstrings.

People respond to this by arguing that 'output' is crap as we are talking about hamstring injury prone players. It's half a decent point as we now have to say Cerra (at Carlton) in now an injury prone hamstring victim. Motlop too.

Maybe Okeefe soon.

This can sound like hysteria but it isnt it. It is more Russell has to take accountability fair or unfair. He certainly claimed the Hawthorn kudos whether he played a big part or not.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

In all honesty, i'd say the club made those decisions on Bolton and Teague due to supporter/corerie/media pressure. That is, 'why are the blues so s**t'. The board then protects its own position.

I doubt that was the only reason.

Although the noise was loud

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I think that is almost moot. We can look at the 'output' which is number of hamstrings.

People respond to this by arguing that 'output' is crap as we are talking about hamstring injury prone players. It's half a decent point as we now have to say Cerra (at Carlton) in now an injury prone hamstring victim. Motlop too.

Maybe Okeefe soon.

This can sound like hysteria but it isnt it. It is more Russell has to take accountability fair or unfair. He certainly claimed the Hawthorn kudos whether he played a big part or not.

So will Brisbane sack their HP manager due to their ACLs - or would they did a little deeper - like into the Gabba turf?

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Good night all - I’ve just done a hammy typing, so off to bed.

 

[JustOneTime]

So will Brisbane sack their HP manager due to their ACLs - or would they did a little deeper - like into the Gabba turf?

That is redirection to another topic when you just want to retaliate but cant.

Soft tissue injuries and load mgmt is all I have personally ever mentioned.

I agree with you, Arrow and others on ACLs. It is either collision, body weakness or turf. Wouldn't sack the High Performance team.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I’m not here to shut anything down brother - don’t take this personally.

I’m just disagreeing with you.

I believe if we don’t know what’s going on - why assume we know what should be done.

Trust in the club to make the right decision- as they did with Bolton & Teague.

The club also hired Bolton and Teague. You put too much blind faith into the club, the people running it will make mistakes like every person in every industry.

I would not last 6 years in my position if the things I oversaw went so poorly for so long, with the same mistakes (culprits) reoccurring over and over again.

I would be surprised if Russell is at the club in 2025. The program needs a new set of eyes whether it is directly his fault or not. Heck the new guy might even find that the surface is sub par or the coaches are working the players too hard, those would be things a Director of High Performance should be analysing and working to fix if required.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Cuningham
Martin
Marchbank
Williams
Docherty
S. Durdin
Mcgovern

Remove this lot and how many injuries do we actually get each year?

I don't really care if Russell stays or goes but I'm tipping if we moved on from this lot we'd be bang on par for injuries league wide.

Sadly I think you might have to add Cerra to that list of injury prone players. He has now had 5 hamstring complaints in the 2 and half seasons he has been with us. The same soft tissue injury repeatedly is not a good sign for how the player or the fitness team have managed his hamstring injuries.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

A revered sports science guy - came up with high altitude training method - quickly googled .

What’s the link ?

He was "the best in the business" at Collingwood and we signed him when Mick took over. He was awful.

Similarities to Russell.

 

[JustOneTime]

Carlton High Performance right now...

S Durdin to Caleb Marchbank "I thought I was unlucky but jeez mate, I'll doubt you ever play more than 4 games in a row, like EVER" .

Caleb Marchbank to Sam Durdin

38

Sam Durdin

Age

27

Ht

199cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

6.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

"You dont even exist. Just a figment of my imagination"

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I get your points. And dont mind them. But we have a 'relatively' poor record over three seasons. The High Performance team are responsible for this area and Russell is accountable. What if it was the same again next year? Is that enough for you to call for change? Or are you on board with Russell indefinite?

Three seasons? I reckon we've had a consistently poor injury list (above average in terms of best players missing, number of games missed and recurring injuries) for 10+ years.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Three seasons? I reckon we've had a consistently poor injury list (above average in terms of best players missing, number of games missed and recurring injuries) for 10+ years.

Essentially yes. The baby blues got battered and had injuries because they weren't strong or fit enough and asked to do too much. Before that we had shitshow Malthouse and buttifant and horrible training standards and preparation aka injuries injuries injuries. Now we have a mix of recruiting tissue paper players and a tsxing game plan and seemingly really high training loads.

One thing I have thought about a bit tonight is we've seemed to hit a few different extremes with Russel and often gone too far one way then swung too far to counterbalance. The young guys got bullied so we ended up becoming a huge team of fat giants and yeah it was powerful but then we couldn't run out games or seasons so we swing back the other way to now and I think the push might've been a bit too far towards endurance freaks everywhere. Feels like there's not enoigh individualisation. Anyway. Who knows. Just some theories.

 

[Arr0w]

Good discussions

Plenty of realistic concerns, viable alternatives

Club is in a much better position to manage this and any other situation that isn't trending in an effective direction

Less than 12 months ago, a large portion of the masses wanted heads to roll from Voss, every single assistant, Sayers and even Cook himself

The club didn't flinch like previous years, backed the people they believed could navigate through a difficult period, and started delivering on the collective strategies

No reason to think they will flinch now

If at any point (most likely end of year), major change is made to the fitness department, then we should be comfortable that the club has all the information to make an informed decision

Likewise if the changes are somewhat subtle, but still effective moving forward

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Good discussions

Plenty of realistic concerns, viable alternatives

To play devil's advocate and in the interests of discussion, I don't understand the argument when posters can't name an alternative person to fill the role. How many people have a list of names of qualified high performance managers at their disposal? It's not our field of expertise.

I'd imagine there would be others available however, from different sports and backgrounds. It's not like the same few just get recycled until they die.

 

[Arr0w]

To play devil's advocate and in the interests of discussion, I don't understand the argument when posters can't name an alternative person to fill the role. How many people have a list of names of qualified high performance managers at their disposal? It's not our field of expertise.

I'd imagine there would be others available however, from different sports and backgrounds. It's not like the same few just get recycled until they die.

I agree, most/all of us have no clue who is a viable replacement if change was made. Nor do I believe anyone currently in an AFL position would move mid season

Outside of our code, well, I'd imagine they're making way more money if they come from an NFL, Soccer background

 

[toddkurnski]

Carlton High Performance right now...

S Durdin to Caleb Marchbank "I thought I was unlucky but jeez mate, I'll doubt you ever play more than 4 games in a row, like EVER" .

Caleb Marchbank to Sam Durdin "You dont even exist. Just a figment of my imagination"

Looking back through back and foot fractures saw this and could only sigh and laugh about Marchbank... he'll come good any day now! (not having a go at him, he must have had a very frustrating career)

From 2017

Marchbank: 'I'm very privileged'

Young defender Caleb Marchbank says it's a massive honour to earn a Rising Star nomination.

www.carltonfc.com.au

"Caleb Marchbank's injury history reads like a medical exam for a hospital resident, but homesickness proved more debilitating than anything his beat-up body took."

He must have filled all the books by now so much so they've had to digitise his records to save space... 4TB of data.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I agree, most/all of us have no clue who is a viable replacement if change was made. Nor do I believe anyone currently in an AFL position would move mid season

Outside of our code, well, I'd imagine they're making way more money if they come from an NFL, Soccer background

I was looking for a list of accredited HPMs but can't find one. You have people like Peter Horne who was a HPM for world rugby and is now the Rugby Australia HPM. I don't know how much money is in national rugby as opposed to an AFL club for such a role.

Probably no point looking at US sports as you'd imagine they would cost too much.

I guess the point is it doesn't have to be someone who has done the rounds in AFL circles as a lot of these accredited HPMs haven't played the sports they are hired for. It's all about tailoring programs for specific training regimes with sport specific injuries in mind.

If you found a HPM who has done a lot of good work around soft tissue injuries, you'd take a look.

We can't know if it's bad luck, bad management, or just genetics that cause our injuries, but we do know that we have had more than our fair share for a long time now.

We can address durability in our list management, but do we pass up a Joel Selwood because of our history? We might be gun shy and remove a whole subsection of moneyball recruits from our future.

Maybe nobody is to blame? Maybe it will stop soon and we will have a blessed run? If we change jockeys and they succeed, that doesn't mean it wasn't about to change and Russell wouldn't have done the same. You can kind of understand that it keeps happening and we seemingly do nothing because we don't want to risk making a bad situation worse.

All we can do is trust and hope because we don't know. It doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions if so inclined though.

 

[JustOneTime]

Our job as supporters is simply to get frustrated and highlight the obvious if we see it (only obvious on the surface of things). The inner club will do what's right but a little pressure is always nice. Club internal staff and board members get complacent like everyone does.

No real outside pressure results in Kernahan as president & Wayne Hughes as list mgr lasting way too long in their roles.

Forum frustration can play its part in pushing change but not that much that it would force change.

A really good question is how everyone would feel if this very same situation repeats in the middle of 2025.

 

[JustOneTime]

Do you think Austin would sign/re-sign a player without completing a medical with our HP team?

Be realistic.

Martin played 21 & 22 games in the 2 years prior to joining us.

Edit: apologies played 15/16 in his 2 recent years before us.

Note: Martin was dropped by GC in his last season there, not injured as far as i can recall. Probably for not renwwing and becoming a free agent.

 

[Arr0w]

I was looking for a list of accredited HPMs but can't find one. You have people like Peter Horne who was a HPM for world rugby and is now the Rugby Australia HPM. I don't know how much money is in national rugby as opposed to an AFL club for such a role.

Probably no point looking at US sports ad you'd imagine they would cost too much.

I guess the point is it doesn't have to be someone who has done the rounds in AFL circles as a lot of these accredited HPMs haven't played the sports they are hired for. It's all about tailoring programs for specific training regimes with sport specific injuries in mind.

If you found a HPM who has done a lot of good work around soft tissue injuries, you'd take a look.

We can't know if it's bad luck, bad management, or just genetics that cause our injuries, but we do know that we have had more than our fair share for a long time now.

We can address durability in our list management, but do we pass up a Joel Selwood because of our history? We might be gun shy and remove a whole subsection of moneyball recruits from our future.

Maybe nobody is to blame? Maybe it will stop soon and we will have a blessed run? If we change jockeys and they succeed, that doesn't mean it wasn't about to change and Russell wouldn't have done the same. You can kind of understand that it keeps happening and we seemingly do nothing because we don't want to risk making a bad situation worse.

All we can do is trust and hope because we don't know. It doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions if so inclined though.

Personally, I'd engage a High Performance professional to do a review of our surface, methods, programs, people and players (list management)

It might be a slight or major shift that can dramatically improve the health of our list, but I doubt that it is a singular cause

 

[GoBlues!]

Personally, I'd engage a High Performance professional to do a review of our surface, methods, programs, people and players (list management)

It might be a slight or major shift that can dramatically improve the health of our list, but I doubt that it is a singular cause

Neil Craig would be perfect to undertake such a review with credentials in high performance and coaching development.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

To play devil's advocate and in the interests of discussion, I don't understand the argument when posters can't name an alternative person to fill the role. How many people have a list of names of qualified high performance managers at their disposal? It's not our field of expertise.

I'd imagine there would be others available however, from different sports and backgrounds. It's not like the same few just get recycled until they die.

So because someone isn't a recruiter in the field and doesn't know candidates thatmeans that there aren't any or that we therefore can't theorise about the possibility the club moves on? IFF (if and only if) the club moves on I couldn't care less about the name that fills the spot. Just the improvements.