Ruthlessness

[ibd77]

This was probably just before my time but recalling how ruthless the club was with Russell Ebert as coach during the 80's is now a sad indictment on how our current coaching is left unaccountable for poor finals performances.

At the time, I believe Bruce Webber was the President / Chair & D.I.McKenzie CEO / GM.

Anyone here recall what actually happened during this period and was it justified to sack a favourite son for 3 seasons of no finals victories?

Return to Port Adelaide (1980–1987)[edit]
Following the end of the 1979 season, Ebert returned to Port Adelaide.

Russell Ebert won two more premierships with Port Adelaide in 1980 and 1981.

Upon the departure of John Cahill for the 1983 SANFL season, Russell Ebert was appointed captain-coach of Port Adelaide. During the year Ebert also captained the South Australian side for the third time.

In 1984 Port Adelaide reached its only Grand Final with Ebert as coach. In front of 50,271 spectators Port Adelaide relinquished a 3-point lead at the final change of the 1984 SANFL Grand Final to eventually lose to Norwood by 9 points.

Ebert retired as a player at the end of 1985 where his 392 games remains a club record. Ebert's playing career spanned a total of 452 senior games for Port Adelaide, North Melbourne and South Australian representative. At least one compilation of Australian football statistics estimated this to be the seventh highest tally in top-level senior football.[10]

Despite Ebert finishing his playing career at Port Adelaide in 1985, he remained coach for a further two seasons. Ebert started the 1986 SANFL season without star wingman Craig Bradley who had been acquired by Carlton.

In controversial circumstances at the end of the 1987 season, after failing to win a final for three consecutive seasons, Russell Ebert was replaced as coach of Port Adelaide by John Cahill for the upcoming 1988 SANFL season.

Although the three seasons preceding Ebert's dismissal at the end of 1987 as coach were ultimately unsuccessful, he is credited with blooding a large number of champions that helped propel the club into the Australian Football League.

• 1983 – Tim Ginever
• 1984 – Greg Anderson, Darren Smith, Wayne Mahney, Roger Delaney
• 1985 – Mark Tylor, Rohan J. Smith, David Hynes, George Fiacchi, Darryl Borlase
• 1986 – Geoff Phelps
• 1987 – Andrew Obst, Paul Northeast, Scott Hodges, David Brown

Russell Ebert - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Russell won 1 final in five years as coach. Rumour went that Port tried to get Cahill back for the 1985 season.

Jack said No you have to give Russell a chance after he just made a grand final.

We missed finals in 1985, then went out in straight sets in 1986 and 87. 1987 was tough as we had 5 posters in the 1st semi final.

But Weber was channelling Bob McLean and had enough. He talked Jack into coming back for the 1988 season.

It was a tough call, alienated Russell from the club, and split the supporter base for a spell.

Was it justified? We won premierships in 1988, 89, 90, 92, 94, 95, 96, 98 and 99.

Russell brought through a lot of the juniors that featured in those premierships, but Jack forged them into an almost indomitable premiership machine.

 

[PowerBaz]

Russell won 1 final in five years as coach. Rumour went that Port tried to get Cahill back for the 1985 season.

Jack said No you have to give Russell a chance after he just made a grand final.

We missed finals in 1985, then went out in straight sets in 1986 and 87. 1987 was tough as we had 5 posters in the 1st semi final.

But Weber was channelling Bob McLean and had enough. He talked Jack into coming back for the 1988 season.

It was a tough call, alienated Russell from the club, and split the supporter base for a spell.

Was it justified? We won premierships in 1988, 89, 90, 92, 94, 95, 96, 98 and 99.

Russell brought through a lot of the juniors that featured in those premierships, but Jack forged them into an almost indomitable premiership machine.

that’s what Hinks is currently doing, it’s a 37 yr plan.

 

[VineValerian]

that’s what Hinks is currently doing, it’s a 37 yr plan.

 

[VineValerian]

What is this thing you call "Ruthlessness"?
Is it a mystical art of ancient times?
I know naught of this concept, as I do not recall seeing it in the last 15 years.

Is it something Glenelg or Gold Coast practice?

 

[tribey]

• Fos Williams — not renewed/sacked(?)
• Russell Ebert — not renewed
• Jack Cahill — not renewed
• Mark Williams — sacked
• Ken Hinkley — tenure

 

[Ford Fairlane]

• Fos Williams — not renewed/sacked(?)
• Russell Ebert — not renewed
• Jack Cahill — not renewed
• Mark Williams — sacked
• Ken Hinkley — tenure

Fos is an interesting one as he was removed as coach at the end of 1958 because he retired and Bob wanted a playing coach. Mots took over and won the 1959 flag. He was sacked at the end of 1961 because Port only finished third after being minor premier. He had an overall 77% W-R record. Fos returned and won flags in 1962-3, 65 then the legendary 12 year drought.

End of 1973 it was probably a mutual agreement for Fos to move on and give Jack his opportunity.

 

[tribey]

Fos is an interesting one as he was removed as coach at the end of 1958 because he retired and Bob wanted a playing coach. Mots took over and won the 1959 flag. He was sacked at the end of 1961 because Port only finished third after being minor premier. He had an overall 77% W-R record.

End of 1973 it was probably a mutual agreement for Fos to move on and give Jack his opportunity.

Those were the days (I assume), Ford

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Those were the days (I assume), Ford

And everyone got on with their lives and the sun came up every day.

 

[JimmyBC]

That 12 year drought ain't got nothing on the impending 20 year variety, what a hootin' time to be alive.

 

[PAFC66]

• Fos Williams — not renewed/sacked(?)
• Russell Ebert — not renewed
• Jack Cahill — not renewed
• Mark Williams — sacked
• Ken Hinkley — tenure

Unfortunately it's all about stability now with this club..how the * do we have the same coach after 9 years of nothing and still a massive debt with the same people in charge despite our decent crowds and members... such a joke

 

[JUSTWORK]

Unfortunately it's all about stability now with this club..how the fu** do we have the same coach after 9 years of nothing and still a massive debt with the same people in charge despite our decent crowds and members... such a joke

Stability, how many players and assistants have we turned over the last 5 years ?

 

[70sDinosaur]

This was probably just before my time but recalling how ruthless the club was with Russell Ebert as coach during the 80's is now a sad indictment on how our current coaching is left unaccountable for poor finals performances.

At the time, I believe Bruce Webber was the President / Chair & D.I.McKenzie CEO / GM.

Anyone here recall what actually happened during this period and was it justified to sack a favourite son for 3 seasons of no finals victories?

Russell Ebert - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As a kid I idolised Russell the player but as a (young) adult I didn't rate him highly as a coach.

When he took over from Jack I had high hopes for him and he started well enough in 1983.

The first half of the year was more or less business as usual and we looked pretty good but then we slumped badly over the second half of the year and missed the finals for the first time since 1969.

There was apprehension leading into 1984 but we started the season on fire and kept it going pretty well until about two thirds of the way into the season. We then played Norwood in about round 15 who had been mostly awful to that point. We were expected to win easily but they smacked us that day and started their late charge to the finals, which would see them snatch 5th spot from the reigning premiers, West Adelaide.

Port, from that point, seemed to taper off, never really regaining their early season form but still doing enough to hold on to top spot from Glenelg and Centrals.

We comfortably disposed of our usual bunnies from the Bay in the 2nd semi final (in what would turn out to be Russell's only finals win as coach) but then faced Norwood in the GF, who had fought their way through from the EF and built form over the last two months of the season.

By that stage, I thought Norwood were in better form and probably had our measure but felt the long grind to get to the GF would take it's toll and do them in. That turned out to almost be the case but not quite, as our former CEO could tell you.

In a classic encounter, we had edged two goals ahead early in the last quarter only for Norwood to regain the initiative and kick 4 of the last 5 goals to take a 9 point win. It was our first GF loss since 1976 and Russell would never get that close to a premiership again.

We were poor in 1985 and were even bottom of the ladder in the middle part of the season before recovering somewhat to finish seventh and miss the finals again.

We improved in 1986 but never looked entirely convincing. We managed to finish third but then were badly beaten by Glenelg in the QF before exiting in straight sets the following week at the hands of Woodville. When you consider Port's pedigree in the SANFL compared to Woodville's sorry history, it's one of the great ironies that the only final they ever met in was won by Woodville.

The following year was more of the same. In the top 3 again but not really convincing. A dismal loss to Norwood in the QF, who had by then been our constant nemisis since 1984, followed by another straight sets exit against Glenelg the following week.

To me, that game against Glenelg epitomised the problems we had during Russell's coaching tenure. Dominant for periods of the game, going missing for others, self-inflicted mistakes, unable to put a score in the board. We led for nearly all of the game but kicked points instead of goals and just found numerous ways to keep Glenelg in it. I just knew as I sat there that we were going to lose it in the end, which we did, by 2 points.

I went home that day feeling as angry and frustrated as I had ever felt as a Port supporter. It wasn't just the losing, it was the feeling that, in the time of Russell's tenure, we had lost something that had made us Port Adelaide. We seemed not as strong, not as resilient as before, too full of doubt, too easily intimidated by teams like Norwood and Glenelg, too easily brushed aside at times, too inconsistent and more prone to putting in shockers.

I thought then that it was time for Russell to go, that we couldn't be successful with him as coach and I wasn't surprised when he was moved on a couple of days later. Although many people disagreed and protested, I fully supported the decision to remove him as I felt that served the best interests of the club over the indivudual, even when that individual was my hero and our greatest ever player.

I think history has proven it was the right decision as the success that followed set us on the path to the AFL.

 

[GremioPower]

To me, that game against Glenelg epitomised the problems we had during Russell's coaching tenure. Dominant for periods of the game, going missing for others, self-inflicted mistakes, unable to put a score in the board. We led for nearly all of the game but kicked points instead of goals and just found numerous ways to keep Glenelg in it. I just knew as I sat there that we were going to lose it in the end, which we did, by 2 points.

I went home that day feeling as angry and frustrated as I had ever felt as a Port supporter. It wasn't just the losing, it was the feeling that, in the time of Russell's tenure, we had lost something that had made us Port Adelaide. We seemed not as strong, not as resilient as before, too full of doubt, too easily intimidated by teams like Norwood and Glenelg, too easily brushed aside at times, too inconsistent and more prone to putting in shockers.

Amazing couple of paragraphs. You are describing our current situation!

 

[70sDinosaur]

Amazing couple of paragraphs. You are describing our current situation!

Yes, that thought did occur to me as I was writing it.

I guess it's time for us to go out and find a new John Cahill. In fact, it's well past time. In the beginning, I had hopes that Ken could be the one but it became obvious as early as 2016 that that wasn't the case and he should have been moved on at the end of 2017.

There's no guarantees of course that the next coach will be the right one but that's why you have to keep turning them over until you find the right one. We should never forget that Fos Williams was an unknown quantity when he came to the club.

 

[1954]

Fos is an interesting one as he was removed as coach at the end of 1958 because he retired and Bob wanted a playing coach. Mots took over and won the 1959 flag. He was sacked at the end of 1961 because Port only finished third after being minor premier. He had an overall 77% W-R record. Fos returned and won flags in 1962-3, 65 then the legendary 12 year drought.

End of 1973 it was probably a mutual agreement for Fos to move on and give Jack his opportunity.

I'm not sure it was a mutual agreement, I was standing just in front of Fos and Big Bob during the half time break of an early game in the 1973 finals and I clearly heard Fos say to Bob he wanted to coach the Maggies for another year.

Getting back to the `Ruthlessness ' bit, there is no way kern would have lasted this long during the Bob McLean era.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I'm not sure it was a mutual agreement, I was standing just in front of Fos and Big Bob during the half time break of an early game in the 1973 finals and I clearly heard Fos say to Bob he wanted to coach the Maggies for another year.

Getting back to the `Ruthlessness ' bit, there is no way kern would have lasted this long during the Bob McLean era.

Lol yes, these things may not always be as they are reported.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

As a kid I idolised Russell the player but as a (young) adult I didn't rate him highly as a coach.

When he took over from Jack I had high hopes for him and he started well enough in 1983.

The first half of the year was more or less business as usual and we looked pretty good but then we slumped badly over the second half of the year and missed the finals for the first time since 1969.

There was apprehension leading into 1984 but we started the season on fire and kept it going pretty well until about two thirds of the way into the season. We then played Norwood in about round 15 who had been mostly awful to that point. We were expected to win easily but they smacked us that day and started their late charge to the finals, which would see them snatch 5th spot from the reigning premiers, West Adelaide.

Port, from that point, seemed to taper off, never really regaining their early season form but still doing enough to hold on to top spot from Glenelg and Centrals.

We comfortably disposed of our usual bunnies from the Bay in the 2nd semi final (in what would turn out to be Russell's only finals win as coach) but then faced Norwood in the GF, who had fought their way through from the EF and built form over the last two months of the season.

By that stage, I thought Norwood were in better form and probably had our measure but felt the long grind to get to the GF would take it's toll and do them in. That turned out to almost be the case but not quite, as our former CEO could tell you.

In a classic encounter, we had edged two goals ahead early in the last quarter only for Norwood to regain the initiative and kick 4 of the last 5 goals to take a 9 point win. It was our first GF loss since 1976 and Russell would never get that close to a premiership again.

We were poor in 1985 and were even bottom of the ladder in the middle part of the season before recovering somewhat to finish seventh and miss the finals again.

We improved in 1986 but never looked entirely convincing. We managed to finish third but then were badly beaten by Glenelg in the QF before exiting in straight sets the following week at the hands of Woodville. When you consider Port's pedigree in the SANFL compared to Woodville's sorry history, it's one of the great ironies that the only final they ever met in was won by Woodville.

The following year was more of the same. In the top 3 again but not really convincing. A dismal loss to Norwood in the QF, who had by then been our constant nemisis since 1984, followed by another straight sets exit against Glenelg the following week.

To me, that game against Glenelg epitomised the problems we had during Russell's coaching tenure. Dominant for periods of the game, going missing for others, self-inflicted mistakes, unable to put a score in the board. We led for nearly all of the game but kicked points instead of goals and just found numerous ways to keep Glenelg in it. I just knew as I sat there that we were going to lose it in the end, which we did, by 2 points.

I went home that day feeling as angry and frustrated as I had ever felt as a Port supporter. It wasn't just the losing, it was the feeling that, in the time of Russell's tenure, we had lost something that had made us Port Adelaide. We seemed not as strong, not as resilient as before, too full of doubt, too easily intimidated by teams like Norwood and Glenelg, too easily brushed aside at times, too inconsistent and more prone to putting in shockers.

I thought then that it was time for Russell to go, that we couldn't be successful with him as coach and I wasn't surprised when he was moved on a couple of days later. Although many people disagreed and protested, I fully supported the decision to remove him as I felt that served the best interests of the club over the indivudual, even when that individual was my hero and our greatest ever player.

I think history has proven it was the right decision as the success that followed set us on the path to the AFL.

The 1984 grand final was probably lost at selection. Our regular full back, Ben Harris was injured in the second semi final and wasn't fit in time for the grand final. We had limited options but Russell went with Max James who had returned from the Swans but had played reserves all year. One of the stories doing the rounds was Max even told Russell not to pick him as he didn't think he could contribute. I'm not certain, but he may have been digging trenches for pipes around his house on the Friday, he was so unaware he was considered for selection. idk, these stories blossom over time.

Norwood had Peter Laughlin as a revelation medium forward in the finals and of course Neville Roberts. We played Anthony Williams and Max on them as I recall. Rocky kicked 5 or 6, I don't remember what Laughlin did but I think he kicked a few too. We tried to be really aggressive and the umps penalised us a few times. Dwayne Russell and Steven Knight had certain goals overturned.

We had brought in a lot of young players during the 1984 season as a few veterans retired after having their pay cut in response to a 'financial crisis' at Alberton. Tony Giles played on and was in great form in the early season then wrecked his knee in the state game. We never really covered his loss, I think we lost our first game after he was injured after opening with 7 consecutive wins. The young guys were getting cooked by the time finals came around and Norwood were finals hardened and had won the premiership only 2 years before with the bulk of the same side.

But yes, Russell lacked that killer edge as a coach, he thought all games could be won on skill alone. Norwood feasted on us in that period, I think we lost 10 in a row against them. He was also negative as a coach, criticising players who made mistakes no matter the circumstance. Jack was the opposite and was always building the players up. He could be critical too, but if you made a mistake trying to do the right thing, he would recognise that and praise for trying to do the right thing. Just do it better!

When Jack came back, we won 10 in a row against Norwood. In 1988 we played them in the final minor round match and then again in the second semi final. We held them goalless in the second half of the minor round game after being 4 goals down at half time and won by 5 goals. We then held them goalless the first half of the final, and led 5.14 to 0.1 at half time. So effectively we held them goalless in four consecutive quarters of football. Neil Balme was shattered, they showed him sitting on the boundary with his notes long after everyone had left the ground trying to work out what went wrong. He was sure he had our measure after that last minor round game.

 

[1954]

The 1984 grand final was probably lost at selection. Our regular full back, Ben Harris was injured in the second semi final and wasn't fit in time for the grand final. We had limited options but Russell went with Max James who had returned from the Swans but had played reserves all year. One of the stories doing the rounds was Max even told Russell not to pick him as he didn't think he could contribute. I'm not certain, but he may have been digging trenches for pipes around his house on the Friday, he was so unaware he was considered for selection. idk, these stories blossom over time.

Norwood had Peter Laughlin as a revelation medium forward in the finals and of course Neville Roberts. We played Anthony Williams and Max on them as I recall. Rocky kicked 5 or 6, I don't remember what Laughlin did but I think he kicked a few too. We tried to be really aggressive and the umps penalised us a few times. Dwayne Russell and Steven Knight had certain goals overturned.

We had brought in a lot of young players during the 1984 season as a few veterans retired after having their pay cut in response to a 'financial crisis' at Alberton. Tony Giles played on and was in great form in the early season then wrecked his knee in the state game. We never really covered his loss, I think we lost our first game after he was injured after opening with 7 consecutive wins. The young guys were getting cooked by the time finals came around and Norwood were finals hardened and had won the premiership only 2 years before with the bulk of the same side.

But yes, Russell lacked that killer edge as a coach, he thought all games could be won on skill alone. Norwood feasted on us in that period, I think we lost 10 in a row against them. He was also negative as a coach, criticising players who made mistakes no matter the circumstance. Jack was the opposite and was always building the players up. He could be critical too, but if you made a mistake trying to do the right thing, he would recognise that and praise for trying to do the right thing. Just do it better!

When Jack came back, we won 10 in a row against Norwood. In 1988 we played them in the final minor round match and then again in the second semi final. We held them goalless in the second half of the minor round game after being 4 goals down at half time and won by 5 goals. We then held them goalless the first half of the final, and led 5.14 to 0.1 at half time. So effectively we held them goalless in four consecutive quarters of football. Neil Balme was shattered, they showed him sitting on the boundary with his notes long after everyone had left the ground trying to work out what went wrong. He was sure he had our measure after that last minor round game.

That 10 in a row domination by the deadlegs was a bloody awful period, and the script to just about everyone of them was virtually identical.
At every opportunity they would bang into the Maggie players, particularly the runners and ball carriers, there would be little to no retaliation and it was often game over before half time.

Jack turned that around almost immediately where we became the aggressors, and whilst I don't know the exact stats between Cahill and Balme I believe the latter's wins are less than 30% of the total games where they went head to head.

 

[The Floodbuster]

Why don’t we just move Ken on and stun everyone making Boak player/coach then bring in Clarko 2023. I’m sure Boak could do better than Kenny.

The AFL won’t know what hit them and make a new rule that no club can have playing coaches.

This is my Monday madness thinking outside the the square.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

This Sun Tzu story always reminds me what ruthlessness really is, when someone asks you to do something.

Sun Tzu Wu was a native of the Ch`i State. His ART OF WAR brought him to the notice of He Lu, King of Wu.

He Lu said to him: “I have carefully perused your 13 chapters. May I submit your theory of managing soldiers to a slight test?”

Sun Tzu replied: “You may.”
He Lu asked: “May the test be applied to women?”

The answer was again in the affirmative, so arrangements were made to bring 180 ladies out of the Palace. Sun Tzu divided them into two companies, and placed one of the King’s favorite concubines at the head of each. He then bade them all take spears in their hands, and addressed them thus: “I presume you know the difference between front and back, right hand and left hand?”

The girls replied: Yes.

Sun Tzu went on: “When I say “Eyes front,” you must look straight ahead. When I say “Left turn,” you must face towards your left hand. When I say “Right turn,” you must face towards your right hand. When I say “About turn,” you must face right round towards your back.”

Again the girls assented. The words of command having been thus explained, he set up the halberds and battle-axes in order to begin the drill. Then, to the sound of drums, he gave the order “Right turn.” But the girls only burst out laughing.

Sun Tzu said: “If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame.”

So he started drilling them again, and this time gave the order “Left turn,” whereupon the girls once more burst into fits of laughter.

Sun Tzu: “If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders ARE clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers.”

So saying, he ordered the leaders of the two companies to be beheaded.

Now the king of Wu was watching the scene from the top of a raised pavilion; and when he saw that his favorite concubines were about to be executed, he was greatly alarmed and hurriedly sent down the following message: “We are now quite satisfied as to our general’s ability to handle troops. If We are bereft of these two concubines, our meat and drink will lose their savor. It is our wish that they shall not be beheaded.”

Sun Tzu replied: “Having once received His Majesty’s commission to be the general of his forces, there are certain commands of His Majesty which, acting in that capacity, I am unable to accept.”

Accordingly, he had the two leaders beheaded, and straightway installed the pair next in order as leaders in their place. When this had been done, the drum was sounded for the drill once more; and the girls went through all the evolutions, turning to the right or to the left, marching ahead or wheeling back, kneeling or standing, with perfect accuracy and precision, not venturing to utter a sound.

Then Sun Tzu sent a messenger to the King saying: “Your soldiers, Sire, are now properly drilled and disciplined, and ready for your majesty’s inspection. They can be put to any use that their sovereign may desire; bid them go through fire and water, and they will not disobey.”


But the King replied: “Let our general cease drilling and return to camp. As for us, We have no wish to come down and inspect the troops.”

Thereupon Sun Tzu said: “The King is only fond of words, and cannot translate them into deeds.”

After that, He Lu saw that Sun Tzu was one who knew how to handle an army, and finally appointed him general. In the west, he defeated the Ch`u State and forced his way into Ying, the capital; to the north he put fear into the States of Ch`i and Chin, and spread his fame abroad amongst the feudal princes. And Sun Tzu shared in the might of the King.

The Test of Sun Tzu’s Art of War On Concubines

The following is a short biography of Sun Tzu written by Sima Qian, one of the famous historians of China. While it’s authenticity has been debated, it serves as a great story on leadership. …

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