Ryan Crowley

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Brishawk

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#52
A good guide

- methandienone
- mesterolone
- ethylestrenole
- noretadrolone

3 weeks

----------------------------------------

- oxandrolone
- oral stanozolol

3 weeks

----------------------------------------

- testosterone propionate

2 weeks

----------------------------------------

- testosterone undecanoate

1 week

----------------------------------------

- clenbuterol

4 days

Plenty of time for a player to get clean.
Yes but the efficacy of such a program 3-5 months prior to the start of the season is zero. That is my point. Anything that is going to last long enough to be effective is also going to show up in tests. Here is the top of the list you sent:

----------------------------------------

- nandrolone decanoate

18 months

----------------------------------------

- nandrolone phenylpropionate

12 months

----------------------------------------

- boldenone undecyclate
- metehenolone enanthate
- trenbolone
- trenbolone acetate
- injectable methandienone

5 months

----------------------------------------

- testosterone-mix (Sustanon & Omnadren)
- testosterone enanthate
- testosterone cypionate

3 months

----------------------------------------

- oxymetholone
- fluoxymesterone
- injectabel stanozolol
- formebolone
- drostanolone propionate

2 months

----------------------------------------
 

tige19

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#54
The AFL don't test for recreational drugs out of competition. They do test for PEDS. They tested the entire Collingwood team in Arizona a couple of years ago.
Oh dude, you miss my point lol... If you read my post I said that you won't find an ASADA drug tester turn up to the Gili Islands in Indonesia or Lombok or even bloody Kuta to drag the boys out of bed to test them for PED's. Catching what I'm throwing? Of course a registered and pre-booked training camp facilitated by the club will basically invite testers to pop on by, I mean ASADA have 100s of agents all throughout the US.
 

Brishawk

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#55
Oh dude, you miss my point lol... If you read my post I said that you won't find an ASADA drug tester turn up to the Gili Islands in Indonesia or Lombok or even bloody Kuta to drag the boys out of bed to test them for PED's. Catching what I'm throwing? Of course a registered and pre-booked training camp facilitated by the club will basically invite testers to pop on by, I mean ASADA have 100s of agents all throughout the US.
Fair enough. I think your answers were ambiguous but with you now.
 

kolchak

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#56
God bless you, jump on the TAC board.

What I am saying is that the real issue is out of season PED use, no player in their right mind would knowingly take PED's in season, the only occurrence would be out of season for which you would be naïve to think it's not an occurance. PLAYERS KNOW THEY DO NOT GET TESTED OUT OF SEASON! PED's are available over the counter without prescription in South East Asia, players are away for 8 weeks, do you believe none of them run PED's during their time away?
Cheer's for the blessings. I'm not naive enough to think that some players from all clubs have at some point gotten away with taking something they shouldn't, but that doesn't excuse Crowley.
 

tige19

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#57
Yes but the efficacy of such a program 3-5 months prior to the start of the season is zero. That is my point. Anything that is going to last long enough to be effective is also going to show up in tests. Here is the top of the list you sent:

----------------------------------------

- nandrolone decanoate

18 months

----------------------------------------

- nandrolone phenylpropionate

12 months

----------------------------------------

- boldenone undecyclate
- metehenolone enanthate
- trenbolone
- trenbolone acetate
- injectable methandienone

5 months

----------------------------------------

- testosterone-mix (Sustanon & Omnadren)
- testosterone enanthate
- testosterone cypionate

3 months

----------------------------------------

- oxymetholone
- fluoxymesterone
- injectabel stanozolol
- formebolone
- drostanolone propionate

2 months

----------------------------------------
I didn't include them because no-one is stupid enough to run oils with a long life, that list is irrelevant. We are talking realistic PED's that can be taken in a period of time that is suffice for a player to run and be clean on, your fighting with me about an issue world sport has. The facts are that there are many oil and water based PED's a player can take to enhance performance and/or aesthetic appearance and sill be clean by the time he reports back to the club. What are you trying to justify?
 

tige19

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#58
Cheer's for the blessings. I'm not naive enough to think that some players from all clubs have at some point gotten away with taking something they shouldn't, but that doesn't excuse Crowley.
Spot on.

His case is more about his negligence rather than performance enhancing which I think the general public accept. Sad he will have his career cut short because of it.
 

play2win

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#59
Spot on.

His case is more about his negligence rather than performance enhancing which I think the general public accept. Sad he will have his career cut short because of it.
No I don't entirely agree with this. The public doesn't quite appreciate the broad definition of what encompasses performance enhancing as applied by ASADA/WADA. It's not just about getting a better outcome on the day of an event, it also includes being able to recover quicker from injury or load more training into your body. Crowley's case could be argued is performance enhancing as it allowed him to play when he wouldn't have otherwise - that is not negligence.
 

tige19

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#60
No I don't entirely agree with this. The public doesn't quite appreciate the broad definition of what encompasses performance enhancing as applied by ASADA/WADA. It's not just about getting a better outcome on the day of an event, it also includes being able to recover quicker from injury or load more training into your body. Crowley's case could be argued is performance enhancing as it allowed him to play when he wouldn't have otherwise - that is not negligence.
Agree to disagree.

I would argue he simply took a prescribed medicine he thought was legitimate so he could participate at the level he previously could. If Pain killers are going to be so heavily scrutinised then we need to ban local injections pre/mid games.
 

Davo23

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#61
Agree to disagree.

I would argue he simply took a prescribed medicine he thought was legitimate so he could participate at the level he previously could. If Pain killers are going to be so heavily scrutinised then we need to ban local injections pre/mid games.

I like that you're backing a mate, but you don't know if this is true, any more than I do.

If I was taking something illegal, I'd have a story ready to put out there. You know there's a chance you'll get caught, just prepare for it. Whatever the story, it needs to blame some other person/organisation or appear to be innocent, e.g. "I bought an over the counter cough syrup".

"Headache tablets" is as good as it gets.

And he's a scumbag footballer, so I've got no sympathy!
 

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tige19

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#62
I like that you're backing a mate, but you don't know if this is true, any more than I do.

If I was taking something illegal, I'd have a story ready to put out there. You know there's a chance you'll get caught, just prepare for it. Whatever the story, it needs to blame some other person/organisation or appear to be innocent, e.g. "I bought an over the counter cough syrup".

"Headache tablets" is as good as it gets.

And he's a scumbag footballer, so I've got no sympathy!
What do they say? Opinions are like.....

Yeah, I suppose I do know the guy on a personal front and therefor have an opinion based on that history and knowing the type of person he is. Like I said, as far as a human being goes he is as straighty as any of my mates and any of the boys we grew up with.
 

PenAndPaperJosh

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#63
Agree to disagree.

I would argue he simply took a prescribed medicine he thought was legitimate so he could participate at the level he previously could. If Pain killers are going to be so heavily scrutinised then we need to ban local injections pre/mid games.
Honestly I think they should ban those pre/mid game injections. If you need an injection to keep going, you're obviously shot and wouldn't be out there without it
 

Brishawk

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#64
It is so ridiculously easy to search the ingredients of painkillers though - they are listed on the pack so you just need to search them on the ASADA website.

These are the only section that covers pain killers. Notice how many of them are available under a TUE? That means Therapeutic Use Exemption. So you can imagine that either a) he did not have a TUE or b) he is taking some seriously bad stuff. IF you can get a TUE for heroin, imagine what he must be taking . . .

This guide is from USADA:

S7. Narcotics
Certain narcotics are prohibited in-competition: buprenorphine, dextromoramide, diamorphine (heroin), fentanyl and its derivatives, hydromorphone, methadone, morphine, oxycodone, oxymorphone, pentazocine, and pethidine (meperidine). Use of these narcotics in-competition requires an approved TUE.



Advisory:
  • Opium, the latex extract of the poppy plant, contains morphine and therefore it is also prohibited. Poppy seeds can contain trace amounts of opium.
  • Hydrocodone, mitrgynine, tapentadol and tramadol are in the monitoring program and are permitted.
Some steriods can work as pain killers by virtue of their anti-inflamatory properties. Same story as narcotics - you just need a TUE.

S9. Glucocorticoids
The systemic use of glucocorticoids (often called “steroids” by prescribers) is prohibited in-competition. This includes oral intake (taken by mouth and swallowed, such as Medrol Dose Pak), a systemic injection by IV or intramuscular (IM), or by rectal routes.



Advisory:
  • Athletes who are prescribed oral, rectal, IV or IM glucocorticoids may take these medications out-of-competition without submitting a TUE, as long as the prohibited substance has cleared their system prior to the time defined as “in-competition”. If athletes need to use these routes shortly before or during competition, they must obtain a TUE.
  • The time it takes for glucocorticoids to clear from the athlete’s body depends on many variables and cannot be predicted by USADA. This is up to the athletes, their doctor, and their pharmacist to determine. Read the Clearance Time FAQ on the TUE page.
  • Injections of glucocorticoids around tendons, into joints, and epidurals (into the spine) are permitted, but an injection into a muscle is prohibited.
  • Inhalation of glucocorticoids (e.g. for asthma) is permitted.
  • Topical use of glucocorticoids (e.g., anti-rash cream, hemorrhoidal creams used on the surface, etc.) are permitted. Be aware, however, that some hemorrhoidal suppositories or rectal creams contain glucocorticoids and are prohibited in-competition.
 

kazzooka

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#67
How ridiculous is it that Crowley has to wait till after Essendon's verdict to come down before facing the tribunal. He got his infraction notice in bloody October. Imagine if he misses the first 10 weeks or so while the AFL/ASADA get their shit together and is then found not guilty?

Yes, i know with a possitive test it's remarkably hard to win but depending on the substance, there is still a chance. Just for comparison, Ben Johnson was tested on race day September 24th 1988 after winning gold and setting a world record. 3 days later on September 27th he was disqualified. They have had plenty of time to get it over and done with. Also i think it should be mandatory that all testing on players currently competing should be done with the express option. After the July 13 positive test we could have b sample done before the next game infraction notice and provisional suspension started. give him 30 days to prepare defense then a tribunal.
 

wahawk

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#68
How ridiculous is it that Crowley has to wait till after Essendon's verdict to come down before facing the tribunal. He got his infraction notice in bloody October. Imagine if he misses the first 10 weeks or so while the AFL/ASADA get their shit together and is then found not guilty?

Yes, i know with a possitive test it's remarkably hard to win but depending on the substance, there is still a chance. Just for comparison, Ben Johnson was tested on race day September 24th 1988 after winning gold and setting a world record. 3 days later on September 27th he was disqualified. They have had plenty of time to get it over and done with. Also i think it should be mandatory that all testing on players currently competing should be done with the express option. After the July 13 positive test we could have b sample done before the next game infraction notice and provisional suspension started. give him 30 days to prepare defense then a tribunal.
It's the AFL.
Your expectations are way too high
 

eldorado

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Moderator #70
It's odd starting to hear the media talk about the AFL leaving ASADA. (if you listen to SEN, anyway)

Apparently, the recent spate of players caught positive shows that...we need to move away from the ASADA/WADA code, and go towards something that is more relaxed, and tailored towards the apparently 'unique' sport of AFL.

Go figure. Apparently, there are unique elements to AFL which mean we should be exempt from the global standards of anti-performance enhancing drug policing.

It's all become a bit too inconvenient for some. Again, they don't blame those who break the rules, they blame those who make and enforce them. It seems they only think its fine to be a signatory to ASADA as long as ASADA don't actually act within their mandated powers of their charter; as long as ASADA actually do nothing, they are happy to be part of it. Weird.
 

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#71
Sorry, totally disagree. It's bloody simple to check https://checksubstances.asada.gov.au/
Actually, almost all the over-the-counter analgesics that I fed into that website were actually allowed, including ibuprofen, codeine, paracetamol, naproxen and even tramadol!

That's some pretty hard-hitting analgesia while still being ok to play.

Pseudoephedrine is actually situationally allowed even during competition (presumably prescribed by club doctor and ASADA notified of the prescription).

I wonder if that is it, or whether he took something a little more heavy?
 

Blaze Storm

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#72
It is so ridiculously easy to search the ingredients of painkillers though - they are listed on the pack so you just need to search them on the ASADA website.

These are the only section that covers pain killers. Notice how many of them are available under a TUE? That means Therapeutic Use Exemption. So you can imagine that either a) he did not have a TUE or b) he is taking some seriously bad stuff. IF you can get a TUE for heroin, imagine what he must be taking . . .

This guide is from USADA:



Some steriods can work as pain killers by virtue of their anti-inflamatory properties. Same story as narcotics - you just need a TUE.

And as I mentioned in the previous post, there are MANY options for painkillers that don't involve a stint on the sidelines.
 

Brishawk

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#73
Actually, almost all the over-the-counter analgesics that I fed into that website were actually allowed, including ibuprofen, codeine, paracetamol, naproxen and even tramadol!

That's some pretty hard-hitting analgesia while still being ok to play.

Pseudoephedrine is actually situationally allowed even during competition (presumably prescribed by club doctor and ASADA notified of the prescription).

I wonder if that is it, or whether he took something a little more heavy?
There are steroid-based anti-inflamatoies that are used to treat back pain . . . you can only use them with a therapeutic use exemption which is where a request is submitted to ASADA along with supporting medical evidence from a doctor. Emergency TUE's are even available to cater for unexpected events. The other heavy hitting pain killers are narcotic-based e.g. opiates. Think morphine end of the scale. Some other very strong pain killers. My guess is for the former rather than the later. I think he has just skipped the TUE step and is hoping he can avoid suspension based on the fact they are allowable under TUEs. If it is a substance flat out banned then I'd suggest he would have retired.
 

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#74
There are steroid-based anti-inflamatoies that are used to treat back pain . . . you can only use them with a therapeutic use exemption which is where a request is submitted to ASADA along with supporting medical evidence from a doctor. Emergency TUE's are even available to cater for unexpected events. The other heavy hitting pain killers are narcotic-based e.g. opiates. Think morphine end of the scale. Some other very strong pain killers. My guess is for the former rather than the later. I think he has just skipped the TUE step and is hoping he can avoid suspension based on the fact they are allowable under TUEs. If it is a substance flat out banned then I'd suggest he would have retired.
I suspect you are correct, but I was surprised at the level of pain relief that you could achieve without even touching on banned substances. You can adequately treat patients with compound fractures using a combination of ibuprofen and tramadol.
 

arupist

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#75
There are steroid-based anti-inflamatoies that are used to treat back pain . . .
Not just back pain. I was once prescribed steroids for acute gut pain. Worked a treat.

..... and 3 days later I won a body-building contest. Just kidding, but the steroids really did work on the gut pain.
 
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